Finally decided on a trans-maybe

[gregaba]

I think I have finally decided on a trans for the 63-428.
While on another forum there was a mention of a 6r80 from a 3.5 Ecoboost behind a FE engine.
I called around looking for one but there weren't any for the 3.5 in my area 120 mile radius but it seemed everybody had some for the Modular V-8 engine..
I started looking on the net and found Bendtsen Adapters part # FO1000201 adapter kit for the FE for $950.00.
It is for the trans from any ford modular 5.0 etc.
Looking for a controller the only one I could find was the US Shift self learning controller for  $1249.
I would still have to build a cross member and have a new driveshaft made but this seems like a reasonable amount of money to spend with the trans going for about $600.00 in my area.
I really liked this trans as I had it in my 08 Mustang GT and my 2012 Mustang GT and really punished them with no problems.
Any comments on this decision? Good or Bad.
Greg

[wcbrowning]

Do you know, dimensionally, how the 6r80 compares to a c6?  Do you know how much power the 6r80 can safely handle while maintaining a reasonable life span?

I think I have finally decided on a trans for the 63-428.
While on another forum there was a mention of a 6r80 from a 3.5 Ecoboost behind a FE engine.
I called around looking for one but there weren't any for the 3.5 in my area 120 mile radius but it seemed everybody had some for the Modular V-8 engine..
I started looking on the net and found Bendtsen Adapters part # FO1000201 adapter kit for the FE for $950.00.
It is for the trans from any ford modular 5.0 etc.
Looking for a controller the only one I could find was the US Shift self learning controller for  $1249.
I would still have to build a cross member and have a new driveshaft made but this seems like a reasonable amount of money to spend with the trans going for about $600.00 in my area.
I really liked this trans as I had it in my 08 Mustang GT and my 2012 Mustang GT and really punished them with no problems.
Any comments on this decision? Good or Bad.
Greg

[e philpott]

6R80 holds more torque than a C6

[jmlay]

If the naming convention holds true the 6r80 is rated for 800nm, 590ft/lb. interesting read:

https://www.mercurycougar.net/threads/73-cougar-6r80-swap.120779/

[gregaba]

I don't know what the dimensions are but that is one of the things I need to find out. The video Brendtsen posted on U-tube said it was smaller then the 4r70 and the AOD.
As far as to how much horsepower they will hold I was pulling over 500 in my 12 GT and I really abused it at the strip with no problems. That being said I traded the 12 GT for a 13 Boss 302 and only put 31,000 on the 12.
I do know a few guys in the nearest big town near me who are running these with blowers and 2 guys who have the Hellion twin turbo setup's running the stock tran's.
Now how long they will hold up under that kind of power I have no ideal.
As soon as I can find out the different dimensions from the c-6 I will post.
Greg

[gregaba]

Found the size of the C-6 but not the 6r80. I did see some pictures of it and the middle from behind the bell looks fat back about 12 inches. Quit a bit bigger then the c-4 it was beside in the picture.
I did see where HOT Rod did an story on installing a 6r80 in a fox body and the mechanic had to massage the floor in 2 or 3 places with a plastic mallet.
Greg

[jayb]

I've got one here I can measure for you if you'd like.  I plan to put one in my race car at some point.  I don't like the adapter kits that are available for it though, they require cutting off the leg of the FE block that is underneath the starter, and then using a small block flywheel and starter.  Seems like a dumb way to go, although it's probably the easiest way.  I don't want to cut my FE blocks, I'd rather modify the case of the 6R80.  I have a plan to do that going forward.  I already have an adapter designed that will bolt to the 6R80, and allow it to bolt to the FE block.  Next is a billet aluminum piece that will replace a small amount of the 6R80 case, and hold the nose of the FE starter.  The case will have to be cut or ground away, and the billet piece welded on, but that doesn't seem like a big deal to me.  The advantage of not cutting the FE block, and using the FE flywheel and a starter capable of turning over a big cube, high compression FE, trumps the problems with welding the case, to me anyway. 

However, because of the fixed flange at the rear of the trans, a driveshaft with a slip yoke built in is also required.  Again, not a big deal, to me anyway.  If the project works out well, I'll probably offer the adapter parts as a kit.

Those transmissions can be built to handle 1400 HP  and are used in some of those supercharged and turboed late model Mustangs, running low 8s at 4000+ pounds.  I think it's going to be a great trans for my race car.  By the way, I bought mine locally for $400, from a V6 Mustang.

It is a fairly wide transmission, and I think some tunnel surgery will be in order to make it fit my 69 Shelby clone.  I don't care about that since it's primarily a race car, but if you want to maintain the factory floor, it could be an issue.

[Cyclone03]

In time I can see myself as a customer for an adapter kit.
I’m a stick guy at heart but in time I can see an advantage to losing the left pedal.

[Towd56]

In time I can see myself as a customer for an adapter kit.
I’m a stick guy at heart but in time I can see an advantage to losing the left pedal.

Jay - any idea how far out your kit is?

[CV355]

6R80s are the preferred auto-swap for 13/14 GT500s though it is a $12k project to install one against a Trinity.  I considered it on mine at one point.  Against an FE, I would imagine it would cost substantially less.  Excellent transmissions- I wish my '18 GT had one instead of the 10R80 Confus-o-Matic. 

Regarding the controller as a stand-alone unit:

I hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing this, but here's a wealth of knowledge on 6R80 swaps as it pertains to 13/14 cars, but some of it may be useful to you:
https://www.svtperformance.com/threads/gt500-6r80-swap-how-to.1128347/

You may also want to talk with the guys at VMP:
https://www.vmpperformance.com/performance-parts/swap-parts/6r80-swap

[jayb]

In time I can see myself as a customer for an adapter kit.
I’m a stick guy at heart but in time I can see an advantage to losing the left pedal.

Jay - any idea how far out your kit is?

That kind of depends on how things go with my cylinder head project over the next month or so.  If that all works out as I currently expect, I'd probably be ready with a prototype adapter setup for my car by the end of the summer, and a kit by the end of this year.  If the head project takes longer, then I'm not sure how long it might be before I get to the 6R80 kit.  I will get there eventually though...

[gregaba]

Thanks Jay
I would like the dimensions of the 6r80. I would like the size around the top of the trans to see how much I would have to trim out of the tunnel.
The adapter i was looking at does not require cutting the block. If that was required I would forget it.
I hate to trim anything on the car because it is rust free but since it has been a race car since birth it all ready has a lot of trimming and brackets in it so I guess it won't hurt it.
I all so have a consul that I will have when Andrew gets ready to ship it so any trimming I do will be hidden.   
The more I think about this swap the more I like it, I can run a steep rear and still get some reasonable mileage on the hi way and i am confident on the strength of the trans.
I don't see how you make time for all the projects you do. You must only sleep about 30 minutes a night.
CV355, thanks for the links, I will read them tonight when I get off work.
Now I just have to find a low mileage trans and get going on it.
Greg

[jayb]

Are you sure the adapter kit doesn't require cutting the block?  I've seen two of them, and they both need that.  Which kit are you looking at?

I'll post some measurements later today.

[gregaba]

Yes it is the Brendtsen part number F01000201.
They have a video on u tube called Ford FE Adapter install showing the installation of their kit.
Greg

[jayb]

Thanks for that video, it clears a few things up for me.  First thing I'd like to note is that based on your video, I'm pretty sure that the V6 6R80 is not what you want.  That one will require you to cut the leg off the block.  Performance Automatics makes an adapter for putting a V6 6R80 behind a 429-460 or an FE (both engine bolt patterns are in the adapter).  I got my hands on one a while back, and put it up against the back of an FE block.  In the picture below you can see that the leg of the block goes right where the starter needs to fit. 




Performance Automatics specifies that you should use a 6R80 from a V6; their rationale was that the top two bolts for bolting the V8 version of the 6R80 onto the FE would interfere with the top two FE bellhousing bolts.  So, the V6 version is what they want to use.  But watching the video, I don't think that's what the kit shown in the video is using.

Bendtsen's kit looks like it uses a transmission that is not a V6.  I'm guessing it's from a V8.  Here's a picture from their video, followed by a picture of my V6 trans from about the same angle.  Look at the difference between the locations for the starter on the transmissions:






Also, looking at their adapter plate that is bolted on the engine, the top two bolts for the transmission are very close to the top two FE bellhousing bolts, but they don't interfere.  So, my guess is that they are using a V8 version of the 6R80.  Greg, you should call them and find that out.  If that is true, it would be great to know that it is available, it would save me the trouble of trying to fabricate one.

Here are some measurements from my transmission; I assume that the bulk of the transmission between V6 and V8 are the same,  and only the bellhousing area is different:

Overall length:  26 1/2"
Width of the bellhousing at the input shaft centerline:  17"
Width of the pan:  13"
Width of the case 6" back from the bellhousing flange:  12"
Height of the case 6" back from the bellhousing flange:  5" over the transmission centerline
Width of the case 9" back from the bellhousing:  10 1/2"
Height of the case 9" back from the bellhousing flange:  4 1/2"" over the transmission centerline

Most of the rest of the trans is 10" wide, and 4" high over the transmission centerline. 

Hope those measurements help - Jay