T/D 7020 rocker set up? Who has a set they want to part with?

[BattlestarGalactic]

Little update on the motor.

Heads leaking, got new TF heads
Roller cam bearings installed  (why?  the price was right and now no bearing issues to deal with)
Roller cam, blah, blah.

I have my very vintage Dove HD rocker set up.   Been very faithful for near 3 decades.  BUT, with the much increased spring pressure I am going to I don't really want to have to trust them...........as you can't replace them.

So, thinking T/D.   Apparently they have one set of shaft units ready to ship(not sure which version?).  I'm thinking since I have to burn my retirement funds  , I might as well go big.  Unfortunately the pairing set up is 2 months out.  Racing season is going to be pretty slim to begin with, but not sure I want to wait til August to even try to get the motor in the car. 

I'm only around 650# open, so it's not a crazy big roller, but I HATE dealing with broken parts so I don't mind buying top end parts.  Another 20 yrs of carefree racing would be just fine with me.

I'm just asking around if anyone has parts they want to sell off?
I just realized I didn't put this in the "want ads".  Jay do you want it moved?

[blykins]

They are not 2 months out.  Also, you want the paired rockers, 650 lbs can pull regular stand studs out.

[CaptCobrajet]

Brent is correct.  I have used many 7022 sets(actually the one you would want if you went for the single shafts), with spring pressure up to 550 open.  I have seen zero failures there.  It is my opinion that 600 open is the absolute cut-off.  I won't put single shaft rockers of any type, held by only four 3/8" fasteners, on anything, and expect it to live very long.  When the shafts break, they break at the bolt holes just about every time.  I sell a LOT of T&D product.  I have 7022 sets on the shelf, with bushings (better), but that is not what you need.  You need a 7030 set, and 3-4 weeks is delivery right now.  We have received three sets this week and all three were about four weeks.  Bushings cost more, but are better.  A bushed steel set is about six weeks, and those are expensive, but they are the best available rocker set for an FE.  You should consider bushings.  It is $192 more than a regular 7030 set to add the bushing upgrade, but well worth it over the long haul.  Happy to help you if you wish........

[BattlestarGalactic]

Thanks for the input guys.  I was real hesitant to use any shaft set up.  I've seen the carnage on four bolts running a roller cam.  That is why I always ran little flat tappet camshafts!  But...I had to get this fancy new block and run myself into a hole having to upgrade every freak'n thing?  BTW, my old block is home, sleeved and ready to use again. 

I looked around and even though I'll be using TF heads, I need the edel rockers set up(7030)?
I was planning on cutting the TF rocker stands down, but what else is different about the TD set up that they offer two styles?

I have a local shop that is a TD dealer.  That is where I got the 2 month schedule(maybe they stretched the 6 wks you mentioned Blair?).  The shop I use is not a dealer, and with T/D contract requirements they won't be a dealer any time soon.  Does it take a little more pull to get stuff quicker? (gee, never seen that before LOL).

[Posi67]

I've never pulled a stud or heli coil out of 3 different sets of heads with a 680# open spring. Have had some recent broken Erson shafts which are smaller than Stock or Dove which is a bit odd since that's hadn't happened before. Also can see evidence of fretting on the stand mount on the head. Not a good situation but not the end of the world either.

Of course, the T&D paired setup is the way to go and I suspect either Brent or Blair can get you the best deal in the least amount of time. From what I understand, T&D can be a little persnickety when dealing with individual orders.   

[CaptCobrajet]

I think the evidence of loss of clamp force on the pedestal is all you need to know.  It won't do that forever.  The flexing is what breaks the shaft.  Most of the time, it is only a broken shaft, but it can cause worse problems.  The threads can pull out.....if you didn't have that happen, I say you were lucky, and your cam had ramps that were smooth enough to make it last. 

I have some solid roller grinds that we use with traditional mounting, that have lower lift, so the springs never get that much open pressure.  Lots of ways to skin a cat.

[CaptCobrajet]

Larry, the six week stuff is bushed and steel rockers.  Most people don't know they even make that.  Standard part numbers should be 3-4 weeks.  The Trick Flow heads have Edelbrock valve spacing.  The sets that fit Edelbrock valve locations are right for the Trick Flow in terms of spacing.  The difference in the part numbers is the shims and spacers.  I get those 7022 sets with offsets to fit pushrod holes better, but they won't build them with bushings or offsets one set at a time.  I have to buy five sets to get them like I want them.  The paired shaft sets like the 7030 can be ordered however you want them, one-off.  The single shaft sets are generally generic, unless quantities are involved.

[Posi67]

" I think the evidence of loss of clamp force on the pedestal is all you need to know.  It won't do that forever.  The flexing is what breaks the shaft.  Most of the time, it is only a broken shaft, but it can cause worse problems.  The threads can pull out.....if you didn't have that happen, I say you were lucky, and your cam had ramps that were smooth enough to make it last. "

In my case I'm blaming the weak stands the later Erson versions used. They are too soft and can't be tightened down properly. That and the undersized shafts make for a bad combination although I went many seasons without issue. I don't see the same problem with the Dove HD setup. I'm not smart enough to know how aggressive my Cam ramps are but I'm also the guy who never ran end stands and used the biggest solid Cam Comp made at the time without breaking a shaft ever. Others, not so much luck.

Anyway, looks like Larry has all the info he needs without my interruption. I will be using the T&D's on a future build and feel good about that.   

[blykins]

I pulled a set of studs out of a Pond head on the dyno once with 600 lbs open.  It was not fun.  It was T&D streets.  Didn't break the shaft, just let go of the end stud and then the next one to it let go. 

I have ran the street T&D's at 650 lbs on a cast iron TP head, but the stands were fretting.  Instead of doing all the head modifications, we just switched to a flat tappet since it was a street application.

To use the paired T&D rockers on TFS heads, you will have to mill them down, and it's a good bit of milling since the stands are raised on them. 

To use the single shaft T&D rockers on TFS heads, you will have to cut the stands down on the T&D's by about .200". 

You need the paired rockers.....

[BattlestarGalactic]

Thanks guys.  Pretty much confirmed my suspicions.  I guess I needed to jump on this long ago, but we kinda were dragging our feet with decisions in hopes to reuse my Dove stuff.  I've been just holding off on spending that much more money right now as we all know what is going on.   I was also trying to figure out if we were milling the heads or cutting the stands.  I was leaning towards not bastardizing my Dove set up so I could use it on something else down the road.

I do like being over built.  My boat hasn't survived this long on using "barely good enough" parts.

Thanks for the input Dale.  There are times that you can make stuff work.  Others you can't. 

Blair, thanks for the info on what the difference is between the part numbers.  The website gives no real information, other then saying Edelbrock and that means nothing to the layman.

[BattlestarGalactic]

Quick question, if I don't want to wait for the steel bushed rockers, are the std alum models sufficient for what I am doing?  Or will they want to break like a Dove rocker?  I'm guessing the steel rocker is far superior.

I found a 7030 set online at an online warehouse in Michigan, but with alum rockers.   Would I just be selling myself short?

[CaptCobrajet]

Many, many aluminum T&D rockers in service.  The steel rockers are a high-end, expensive deal. 7030  bushed AND steel, almost $2300.  Bushed aluminum $1790.  Needle bearings and aluminum $1598.  All of those prices include spring oiler hole option also.  You need that. Up until a few years ago, nobody bushed them.  The steel option has not been around very long.  We broke some aluminum rockers with .800+ lift on the Drag Week drive with Scott's Cougar.......on the fourth year on the rockers.  The drive between tracks is rough on valvetrain.  That was when we got interested in the steel ones.  Most drag race apps can run for many years on the aluminum rockers.  I will only run a needle bearing rocker if a customer just insists.  A bushed aluminum set up is a good compromise costwise, and the next best thing to steel.  If a person wants a package of parts, or head work, I can make better deals, but I can't advertise numbers for rocker sets only at less than racer net pricing.  You would have to inquire.

[XR7]

Aluminum rocker bodies adn roller bearings work fine in a drag only application, I think they would be just fine for your application. I think the steel bodies and bushings are more for the truck pullers and drag week crowd, or extreme spring pressure and/or RPM. Lots of miles or lots of RPM and lots of money for the steel rockers (double???). I have run the race rockers or paired rockers or whatever you want to call them, with aluminum bodies, and have several friends that run them for years in drag cars, zero broken rockers.

One thing that might sell you short, if you don't order them... is that most in the box or on the shelf, are centered rockers. I don't know why they even make them that way as standard. I always use offsets. you will need at least an .080 offset left and right for each pair, on most manifolds (including your DOVE tunnel-wedge). .170 offsets are even better, but you end up dong some work on the pushrod tubes. I have even used .250 offsets on the intakes (only), with .080 on exhaust, or even .180 and is what I use since my intake port is moved inward (BT HR heads). I know of one intake that used a .500 offset on the intake side, on a sheetmetal intake, and straight up on exhaust. So I wouldn't buy them without at least a .080 offset both ways, that should be about perfect on your DOVE, and maybe no clearancing... or just a tad here and there if you use 7/16 pushrods.

One other thing that you probably already know, is the paired rockers use ball ball pushrods, and oil through the pushrods. Not a problem for you since you have a BBM block, but you will need to restrict the oil to the rockers either with restricting pushrods, or restrictors in the lifter cross over galleys.

I see someone has posted while I am a slow typer but I will post this anyway.... just my .02 cent opinions, your mileage may vary.

[fekbmax]

Great info ccj and xr7.

[blykins]

I even use aluminum bodied rockers on some truck pullers. 



These Jesel rockers are the only ones available for a Profiler 221 BBF head.  They are aluminum bodied with needle bearings and have no trouble with 9000 rpm and 1300 lbs of spring pressure with near 1" of lift.  The truck hasn't been on a Drag Week outing, but these handle seasons of 20-25 second sled pulls.