Author Topic: Black Oxide Coating  (Read 4021 times)

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jayb

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Black Oxide Coating
« on: April 15, 2020, 05:30:13 PM »
Some of you have seen the thread at the link below, where I eventually made some of the hardware I need to run my cylinder heads on an engine:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=8549.0

I was happy with the results except that the hardware was not black, like an ARP nut or bolt.  CV355 mentioned that a company called Caswell made a do-it-yourself black oxide kit.  I looked up their web site and found that I could order the kit for less than $100, so I went ahead with that.  The kit arrived yesterday, so today I tried it all out.

The basic kit runs about $60, but they recommend an additional preparation chemical for hardened steels, called the activator, so I got that one as well.  The kit included the chemicals for pre-treating the hardened steel, the black oxide coating, and a sealer, plus a couple of white buckets for mixing up the chemicals.  Since what I was doing was pretty small, I didn't need to use the buckets, so I ended up using some plastic paint measuring cups.  Also required for the process is distilled water.  Here's a photo of what I set up to begin the process:



The process involves mixing the activator and black oxide chemical with distilled water, one part chemical to 9 parts water.  For what I needed I hardly used any of the material.  The sealer is used at full strength, but they give you two quarts of that with the $60 kit, so there's plenty of that too.  I used the small cups in the photo above to measure the activator and the black oxide chemical, along with the distilled water, because the cups have ounces marked on the side.  When I was done mixing the chemicals they looked like this:




The nut in the foreground of the photo was one of my first tries at machining these things and the hole in the nut isn't quite concentric with the outside diameter, so I thought I'd start with this one.  I didn't do any prep to the machined surfaces, but the raw surfaces got wire brushed before I started.  First you dip the part in the activator and let it sit in there for 3-4 minutes, then take it out and rinse it in the cup of distilled water.  Then it goes into the black oxide chemical for 2-5 minutes.  They say to agitate the chemical, but all I did was stir it around with a paint stick.  After about 3 minutes I took it out and rinsed again in distilled water, then dropped it into the sealer for 2 minutes.  Took it out and set it on a paper towel to dry.  It looked pretty good, I thought.




After it dried for a couple hours I did notice a few spots where the black oxide hadn't really adhered well to the nut.  The instructions made a point of washing the parts with soap and water prior to coating them, and I hadn't done that with the first one.  So, I took the first five good nuts that I machined, scuffed all surfaces with a wire wheel, and then washed them off in hot soapy water.  Then, I went through the same process with these five.  They look much better than the first one, and I'm very pleased with the results; here they are next two the other five original nuts:




A couple of other comments.  One is that the chemicals are corrosive, so you should wear rubber gloves when doing this procedure.  Also, their web site calls the finish an "oily" finish using these chemicals, but it doesn't really appear oily to me at all, after the sealer finally dries (which takes a couple hours).  It looks just like the finish on an ARP fastener.  Needless to say, I'm very pleased with these results.  I still have tons of chemical left from the $60 kit, so I should be all set to make more of these fasteners in case I can't find a source to make them for me at a reasonable price.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

turbohunter

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2020, 05:34:17 PM »
Very cool
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2020, 06:29:58 PM »
I wish you had asked me about this.

The cold oxide is junk. I threw mine away three years ago. Maybe it is fine for minor home use that doesn’t encounter heat, cold, sunlight, or moisture, but for everything else it’ll rust in quick order.

Best longevity was found by using an acid salt immersion, rinse and black oxide. This allowed almost 1 month of real world exposure before it turned brown and rusted.

Two methods have proven decent.  One is a true black oxide, but this involves the salts being 285 degrees.
There is also a black oxide for freshly zinc plated parts.
For most stuff zinc plate and black chromate is the best due to it’s ability to not degrade for years.

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2020, 06:32:36 PM »
Oh, and if you want the technical papers and titration info, I got it all from Caswell’s supplier.
Much better info provided

jayb

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2020, 07:55:27 PM »


The cold oxide is junk. I threw mine away three years ago. Maybe it is fine for minor home use that doesn’t encounter heat, cold, sunlight, or moisture, but for everything else it’ll rust in quick order.



Well, that's unfortunate :(  I guess I'll see how this works out.    You have a better process for black oxide coating?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2020, 08:02:43 PM »
I just zinc plate and use a black chromate.

I considered getting a proper black oxide setup, but I really don’t do enough stuff in it to justify the cost. Even if I did, heating to 285 is troublesome in a small batch shop.

I’ll pm you links to the technical papers, it’ll greatly enhance the quality of your existing process.

Batch some of your parts and set them outside on the porch, see how they fare.
I bring my parts to work and hang them by a blower duct. The 24/7 salt spray shows me what works and what doesn’t

HarleyJack17

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 09:20:51 AM »
I was following this and when I saw the Black Oxide part I cringed.  Drew is way more up on it than I am but I had some limited painting, coating experience with fasteners in my role here.  Black Oxide is next to useless as a protective layer. That is what we found here with weather exposure. Sadly a lot of coaters try to push it and back it up.....real testing shows it does not do well (salt spray etc.) as mentioned.  If memory serves we ended up with a black zinc.  Not even sure we are still selling that particular vent.

But hey, it is a learning experience right and they look good for now anyway! Glad to see this project coming to fruition. 

turbohunter

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 09:30:54 AM »
Im not getting it. If the parts are coated in oil inside an engine, what’s the problem?
Not arguing just curious as I know nothing about it.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


WConley

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 09:37:00 AM »
Im not getting it. If the parts are coated in oil inside an engine, what’s the problem?
Not arguing just curious as I know nothing about it.

I was wondering the same thing!  As long as that sealer from the cold process stays on, I can't see how it's an issue.

Maybe throw that first part you made into a coffee can of hot oil and see how it does for a few hours...
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 09:51:17 AM »
For sure, installing directly inside an engine, no problem.

If you’ve ever spent 80hours metal finishing and find all the parts rust on the shelf.... well it sucks.

I had 20 assembled carbs and had to remove all the throttle plates and redo them when they turned brown. It made me a lil more nervous.
A person could say “you did them wrong.”  Having gotten carbs from other restorers that use black oxide, I can see the same issues with their products.

Like I said, try and see.

C8OZ

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 10:03:40 AM »
ARP does advise that their black oxide process is, "a short-term rust preventative only and any part exposed to the atmosphere will show signs of rust in a matter of days."

No doubt there are more durable processes for parts intended for use in corrosive environments, but you've already matched ARP at their game, Jay.  ;D

That's in NO way intended as pushback against your advice on conversion, Drew. I learn something practically every time you post.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:06:04 AM by C8OZ »

64PI

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 10:04:48 AM »
I work for a plating company located in Syracuse, NY.  I agree with Drew that the cold black oxide solution is junk. We used to keep some in house for small touch up stuff but eventually disposed of it all. Jay another thing to take into consideration is the hardness of your material. Typically anything over 39RC will require an hydrogen embrittlement relief bake. And usually the harder the base material the more discoloration you will have after the bake, parts will have a reddish hue to them.  Zinc plating with a black chromate may be a better option. With that process you are able to embrittlement bake after Zinc plating and chromate the parts after the bake without introducing embrittlement back into the part.

Fred

cjshaker

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2020, 10:19:14 AM »
Im not getting it. If the parts are coated in oil inside an engine, what’s the problem?
Not arguing just curious as I know nothing about it.

x2
I can certainly understand Drew's issues, being exposed to weather. Black oxide seems to be all over the place. I've had black oxide fasteners that rusted within weeks, being exposed to the elements, but then I've had an AMK bolt kit on my Mach for over 20 years and the black oxide fasteners still look great. Granted they have seen limited rain and zero salt, but still much MUCH better than other plated fasteners that I've seen and used. I think zinc is typically used on parts that are exposed to weathering, and it seems to hold up better. But I understand that Drew is using it to reproduce correct coatings for his carbs.

I think Jay's nuts look pretty good  ;D ;D
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

turbohunter

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2020, 10:51:18 AM »
^^^^^LOL
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Black Oxide Coating
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2020, 10:54:15 AM »
Zinc plating with a black chromate may be a better option. With that process you are able to embrittlement bake after Zinc plating and chromate the parts after the bake without introducing embrittlement back into the part.
Fred

I would think the best process would be:
Hand solvent clean
Remove scale via abrasive means
Rinse with fresh water, no acids or alkali to reduce hydrogen introduction
Plate low current with acid chloride
Bake 300, 4 hours
1% sulfuric to activate
Black chromate 30 seconds
Air dry under 120

Again tho, if he is happy with current results, rock on. Just don’t acid soak too long prior to oxide dip.
Maybe store in a bag with some oil.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:55:55 AM by Drew Pojedinec »