Author Topic: New slicks, but which ones?  (Read 6796 times)

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JERICOGTX

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2020, 10:46:47 AM »
Put that thing into 3rd gear, and let it rip! It needs more wheel speed.

cjshaker

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2020, 11:51:32 AM »
Doug,  my tires are M & H racemasters they are bias ply tire wrinkle wall tires     I believe I went thru three gears during that burnout!   I was just trying to point out that my tires don’t smoke a lot at the track like yours  and my car hooks well at the track

Russ, thanks for that info.

I count to 3 for my burnout and that is all it gets no matter(I don't look for smoke).  I use 2nd gear in my nash and 4.56 gears.

I have a spot mirror stuck to the lower corner of my drivers door.  I pay little attention to the typical person in the waterbox.  I roll into it, give it a quick whip of the throttle and roll way out and pay attention with the mirror to make sure I'm not sitting in water(I also pay attention before driving into water and find myself a point on the track/wall that I know is ahead of water line).  6000 rpm, count to three and let go of line lok and let it roll forward.  Just as it starts to grip I lift the throttle and push the clutch.  Don't drive it out as at lower rpm your clutch will not be fully engaged and could start slipping.

With yours being treaded tires, maybe you need to make sure there is minimal water as it could build up in the tread.  If backing into water, make sure you stay in damp spot, not the deep puddle(depends on the track).

Larry, not sure if you've ever looked closely at the ET Street tires, but "treaded" is a bit of a stretch...lol There are 4 small grooves that barely have any depth to them. In fact, they are barely legal in minimum depth when they are new. Most of my "tread" is gone now, but I might set up a GoPro on the rear just to see if they are holding any water...but I doubt they are. I do my burnout the same; stop outside the water, line lok, crank it up in 2nd for a few seconds, then let it roll out and as soon as I hear the engine start to pull down, push in the clutch as I let off the gas. I never shock the drivetrain by letting the tires grab before pushing the clutch.

Judging from others experience, I think the tires are probably fine, and it's just a driver/chassis issue...lol Although I'm not sure at what age they are typically replaced. I always bring my tires/wheels inside in the winter months, so they're not exposed to freezing temps.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

gt350hr

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2020, 12:15:33 PM »
  Different tire brands smoke differently for sure. Nitto drag radials smoke like crazy. Goodyear slicks not so much. Phoenix slicks lots of smoke. Not sure about Hoosier , I haven't used them.

Falcon67

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2020, 01:24:44 PM »
Drag radials - depending on suspension setup - don't or should not need a whale of a burnout.  Just a little clean off and warm up.  The compound and track prep do the rest.  I run 31 x 15w tires on the dragster and barely smoke them at all.  I spin them until they bite and fling the car forward.  3 years so far on $600 worth of tires, no problem.  1.19~1.23 60' on them.    Same with the door car - roll gently into the water box, when signaled roll out gently clear of the water, then 2nd gear hit for about 3~5 seconds and release the line lock.  About that time the tires should bite.  Last year I finished the year going to the 4th round on Hoosier 275-60x15  DRs with cords and steel showing.  Bought new tires in December.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2020, 09:39:04 AM by Falcon67 »

cjshaker

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2020, 02:50:24 PM »
Chris, it's my understanding that radials do not play well with stick cars. Radials are designed to dead hook, and a stick car works best if the tires turn a bit on launch...at least that's what I understand, but I have no direct experience. I also think that radials have a soft sidewall, where a stick car needs a stiffer sidewall.

But I will say, you've got brass balls for running with cords showing! :o I've had blowouts at highway speeds with just minimal cords showing (young, dumb and broke), and it is NOT something I care to repeat! I couldn't imagine it at top end speeds.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

427mach1

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2020, 06:41:39 PM »

But I will say, you've got brass balls for running with cords showing! :o I've had blowouts at highway speeds with just minimal cords showing (young, dumb and broke), and it is NOT something I care to repeat! I couldn't imagine it at top end speeds.

This burnout was done with cords showing and it was nerve wracking!  It was the end of the 1984 season at Spokane Raceway Park and I wanted to get my burnout photo.  I noticed cords were starting to show so I coordinated with the guy running the staging lanes and the track photographer.  They had me come down just after they announced that the staging lanes were closed.  I went into the burnout area with the understanding that the photographer would wave after he got the photo.  I go through 1st, 2nd, and into 3rd gear and I'm watching the photographer and waiting, and waiting, and waiting.....  I'm expecting one of the tires to let go after what seems like an eternity when he finally waves.  As I look down at the tach, it is slowing through 7000 rpm, much higher than I normally ran it.  I then backed out of the starting area and headed back to the trailer, not wanting to risk running on worn out slicks.


Falcon67

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2020, 09:42:18 AM »
>Chris, it's my understanding that radials do not play well with stick cars.

This could be true for sure.  Since I run autos, the driveline stays loaded when staged.  A 4000+ converter has a pretty good hit but likely not near same as smacking the driveline at a good RPM number.  I tend to run stiffer sidewalls - the 15w tires on the dragster are really door car tires. 

6667fan

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2020, 07:32:53 PM »
I have a question which seems germane to this thread. Too avoid too many rpms in the burnout box and get more wheel speed I see many references to being in second gear heating the tires. Does one start the heating in second or shift to second? My application is a wide ratio TL with 4.57 cogs.
I think it is awesome that experienced manual trans racers are chiming in here.
Thanks,
JB
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10.68@125.71 1.56 60’

Posi67

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2020, 09:21:49 PM »
You start in second. Most transmissions don't like changing gears with a lot of wheel spin including a Jerico. Unless you have a clutchless transmission you will break parts. Starting in 2nd or 3rd (also not recommended with a Jerico) means it's going to be very hard on the clutch if your tires aren't wet or you don't dump with enough RPM.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 09:26:44 PM by Posi67 »

JERICOGTX

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2020, 06:38:04 AM »
I've been doing 3rd gear burnouts with my Jerico trans since 2000. Jerico told me to burnouts in 3rd gear. Haven't broken it yet...

cjshaker

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2020, 08:39:24 AM »
I've been doing 3rd gear burnouts with my Jerico trans since 2000. Jerico told me to burnouts in 3rd gear. Haven't broken it yet...

I suppose several factors can make a difference on this. A light car with smaller tires and 5.+ gearing is much different than a heavy car with high 3s or low 4s for gearing. Most everybody I see does 2nd gear though. The only guys I see shifting during a burnout are Lenco guys or a few with clutchless, as Dale stated.

I get good wrinkle action on my tires when I launch, but once they start to turn, they just let loose. When I see cars that have really good tires (and suspension set-up), they will turn maybe one full turn before hooking up hard. I'm trying to determine if it was my tires or if it was my suspension limiting out and unloading the tires. Since I don't have anyone to guide me or watch my launch and give me feedback, I'm just groping in the dark until I get this figured out. I need a crew chief..lol
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2020, 09:02:40 AM »
In my toploader days, I used first, but my car was 4600#.  With my Nash I use 2nd gear at 6K rpm and 4.56 gears.  I'm very anal about water on the tires with such a light clutch, though I don't dump it until I hit 6K rpm.

Doug, my .02.  If they are actually wrinkling up then they are likely biting okay for a DR.  Two points:  I'm guessing you walk off the clutch(Not dump it), so it's locking up about that time.  Second, your front end is likely topping out and allowing the rearend to unload.  Those two things are making it twice as hard to get it to stay hooked up.   So a lower RPM launch, looser clutch and slower reacting front end would all help keep the power to the tires more linear and allow the tires to keep their bite.

The turbo guys are going stupid fast on a small tire, but they control power and chassis very tightly to enable that to happen.  Shock settings are likely a VERY big deal for them.
Larry

Stangman

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2020, 01:12:14 PM »
What shocks are you running Doug. Our cars are obviously nose heavy and I was having traction trouble with the automatic!!
Got a set of shocks from Calvert and havent had a problem since. Between the caltracs and the calvert shocks front and back you should be able to tune it yourself. Shit Im no suspension guy I just made some tweaks here and there. I didnt know what number to put the shocks at so I asked Don Fotti and he told me were to start and it worked so I left them were I started and just played around with preloads. My car did the same thing it would hit hard then release. You can do it Doug your a pretty fart smeller. :) 8)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:14:06 PM by Stangman »

cjshaker

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2020, 02:58:23 PM »
Doug, my .02.  If they are actually wrinkling up then they are likely biting okay for a DR.  Two points:  I'm guessing you walk off the clutch(Not dump it), so it's locking up about that time.  Second, your front end is likely topping out and allowing the rearend to unload.  Those two things are making it twice as hard to get it to stay hooked up.   So a lower RPM launch, looser clutch and slower reacting front end would all help keep the power to the tires more linear and allow the tires to keep their bite.

Larry, my tires are bias ply, but I've been thinking the same thing about the front topping out and unloading the rear being the issue. I'm going to be switching to double adjustable shocks for the front (probably QA1 or Viking, already have QA1's in the rear). I see lots of guys using standard 90/10 shocks with good success, but I don't think it's working for me for a couple of reasons; 1 being a stiff street clutch, and me not slipping it just right. 2 being I have to launch at a higher rpm (currently I launch at about 5k by easing off the clutch quickly). With the short stroke 427, if I try a lower launch, the car will grab and bog unless I slip the clutch pretty drastically, which I really don't like doing. It's a fine line for sure.

Still trying to get the hang of how hard to hit the tires with the Calverts, and how fast the front should rise. Since, after this thread, I don't think the issue is tires, if I can get those 2 things straightened out, I think I'll be okay. Still, it comes down to me slipping the clutch just right. If I can limit the front rise, or at least slow it down, it might help the tires recover if I hit it a bit too hard and they do turn a bit.

What shocks are you running Doug. Our cars are obviously nose heavy and I was having traction trouble with the automatic!!
Got a set of shocks from Calvert and havent had a problem since. Between the caltracs and the calvert shocks front and back you should be able to tune it yourself. Shit Im no suspension guy I just made some tweaks here and there. I didnt know what number to put the shocks at so I asked Don Fotti and he told me were to start and it worked so I left them were I started and just played around with preloads. My car did the same thing it would hit hard then release. You can do it Doug your a pretty fart smeller. :) 8)

Joe, this stuff is rocket science, don't ya know? ;D I have QA1 double adjustables in the rear and Calvert 90/10 in the front, but my front rises very quickly, and I think it's peaking too hard. I need to slow down the extension. When I watch good hooking cars, the front is rising as the car starts to move forward. When I watch mine on video, it comes to full rise by the time the car has barely broke the beams.

I've shaved 1.7 seconds off since I started racing it, but according to my mph, I should be able to shave another .3 off of my ET. Having to slip the clutch excessively to keep from killing the tires is killing my 60'.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

TomP

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Re: New slicks, but which ones?
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2020, 04:25:51 PM »
on my car it'd smoke the clutch rather than tires if I tried third gear. I use second and about 6000 increasing to 7000rpm as I let off the button. And drive straight to the line. If you need to turn to correct your position you need to back up before going forward again. Or one tire will have the sidewall wrinkled forward and the other backward.

I used the stickshift stocker 9 x 29.5" MT slicks and they worked way better than the various brands of 10.5's I tried.