Let's talk LSA

[Joe-JDC]

There are couple of newer intakes that would be my choice for an all out 289-310 SBF with inline valves.  Super Victor, Parker Funnel Web(Aussie version), or new TFS.  The Victor Jr is a good manifold, and I have probably ported 40 or more of them over the years for drag racers with flow anywhere from 310 cfm to 420 cfm depending on the cubic inch of the engine.  The only issue with the Victor Jr is the floor angle is too flat for 7500 rpm efficiently.  I like the manifold, and I have three of them myself.   Joe-JDC

Real Parker Funnel Web is the one on the left.

[Rory428]

Thank you, very much Joe, for sharing that.

To be a little more specific, my goal is peak HP at a minimum of 7600 rpm, with 1200 cfm of carb (I may also try a Victor Jr & 850 carb) in a ~1350 lb car. I have a old Formula Car that I will cut off back of the roll bar and add the engine, C4 (if it will take it) and 9" gears, as a unit. It will be a drag racer. That, after the dyno work is done.

Brent, you'll note that I will not use the 289 heads, in the end result but, I will heavily modify the exhaust ports. I have them and will try them, to see how they compare with the 2.05 x 1.6 heads. I don't expect them to get very close to the aluminum heads BUT, they did run at that rpm level, in the 60's and 70's in Trans am, Shelby Cobra's and Can Am. Off the subject but, Gurney ran his 3V Westlake heads at Indy and placed 2nd, one year. I loved what Gurney did with the SBF.

Rory,
This will be the car configuration.

This 302 block was a real find. Based on a allen wrench measurement, the cylinder walls are 1/32 thicker than a 80's block that I have and I will use a girdle on it.

If your at all familiar with the F5000 engines, of the 70's, they ran 302's at 8k and 480+ hp. If not, take a look at this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR-1qO2i3Nw

The Aussy's still run them. The car in my avatar is a Formula Atlantic. SCCA grouped the F5000 and my class, together, in club races. I started my road racing, at the same time Danny Ongias did, at Willow Springs and Riverside, CA. My type cars where 1000 lb and 200 hp vs 1350+lb and 480+ hp. Top speeds where 150 vs 180 mph (Riverside) but, the Atlantic's corner better than F5000. Traco and Al Barts where the prominent engine builders for the F5000's, in those days. Barts even did a few 180 crank engines.

This engine will have very limited running, in comparison to the above described, just a few seconds at the drags and dyno time but, I know it will be highly stressed, in those short runs. I had been looking for a 3.25 forged crank, when this one fell into my hands. It could still happen.






































Yours sounds like a very healthy 331. Is it in a Falcon or Mustang, or what?

No, I have the 331 in my 78 Fairmont, which I have raced for over 30 years, mostly with 427 & 428 FE engines. I put the small block in a couple of years ago, after getting warned by track tech not to run anymore 9 second ETs unless I do all the chassis and safety upgrades to be compliant to be legal to run 9s. Since I am still unsure that I want to deal with the extra expense to do all that (full roll cage, certified chassis inspection, plus full face helmet, window net, neck collar, gloves, heavier fire jacket and pants, NHRA Competition license etc), I decided to slow it down with the small block until I figure out if I will bother with all the changes. This photo is with the FE engine, but basically the car has looked pretty much identical for 30 years.

[Rory428]

There are couple of newer intakes that would be my choice for an all out 289-310 SBF with inline valves.  Super Victor, Parker Funnel Web(Aussie version), or new TFS.  The Victor Jr is a good manifold, and I have probably ported 40 or more of them over the years for drag racers with flow anywhere from 310 cfm to 420 cfm depending on the cubic inch of the engine.  The only issue with the Victor Jr is the floor angle is too flat for 7500 rpm efficiently.  I like the manifold, and I have three of them myself.   Joe-JDC
Joe, on my 331, I am currently using out of the box AFR 185 heads, an out of the box Victor Jr. intake (although it does have Ford Motorsport cast into it), and a 4777 Holley 650. I recently picked up a Super Victor for cheap (the seller had it on a stock 302 in a PU truck, said it wasn`t all that good , imagine that!). Since I shift at 6600, and hit just over 7000 at the finish line, do you think it will be worth anything on my combo? I will likely try it someday anyhow, just curious on your thoughts. I may also try a 750 Holley down the road too, who knows, maybe I can get the 302 near the 9s as well.

Real Parker Funnel Web is the one on the left.

[Joe-JDC]

If you do anything to the Super Victor, just clean up the plenum area, and keep the exits to the heads as small as possible.  It is quite a bit better than the Victor JR. as cast.  The Jr. averages ~307-310 cfm, whereas the Super Victor is ~340 cfm as cast.  Believe it or not, the 289 that took second place at EMC this year used a Performer RPM with the divider cut down, and dimples in the floor of the plenum.  He had iron heads that were CNC ported and hand massaged.  The AFR 185 heads are much better.  Joe-JDC

[frnkeore]

Rory, Randy and Joe. Thank you again. I am lessening closely.

Joe, where might I find one of the Parker Funnel Webs? I'll see if I can find the TF and check it out, too.

Randy, I still want to stick with flat tops (I already have them) but, I'll reduce the combustion chamber to 50cc, giving 10.7/1 static & 8.09 Dyna, I'm at 1400 ft elev and want to run pump gas.

Regarding the chamber reduction, I can angle mill the chambers 1 deg, while doing that. Is there any reason not to?

My planed deck clearance is .005 (8.200 Deck) I could go to .000, if it would give a noticeable boost.

Rory, I'm very encouraged with what your doing with the 331 and would be grateful, to be kept informed.

[frnkeore]

Joe, is this the TF manifold your talking about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trick-Flow-R-Series-Carbureted-Intake-Manifolds-for-Small-Block-Ford-52400111/193227588922?epid=1239591948&hash=item2cfd43053a:g:N3sAAOSw10Fd3E9U:sc:ShippingMethodExpress!97502!US!-1

[Joe-JDC]

Yes, but it will need some plenum clean-up work to make it the best it can be.  The Parker Funnel Web was cast in Australia and is hard to find.  The knock-off Chinese copies are $180.00, but the originals were around $650.00.  Some of the Chinese copies are terrible, but the earlier ones from around 2005 were actually decent.  I bought my fake one back in 2006 for $150.00, and it is nearly as good as the original.  Joe-JDC

[70tp]

I ran across a funnelweb a while back.  I’m sure it’s one of the fake ones.  What Do you look for to tell if it’s one of the “good” ones? 

[gt350hr]

  Frank,
     You need to resign yourself to making less than 480 hp if you are going to run pump gas compression ratios. Milling the heads will also have you cutting deeper valve pockets and losing about half of what you gain. Angle milling brings along intake manifold face machining and moves the spark plug closer to the deck , something you are trying NOT to do . I am not trying to rain on your parade , just forewarn you of disappointments and obstacles your WILL be experiencing. Think about dropping the duration @ .050 by 10*s as a roller in the 250's is now too much for what you are doing. It's your deal and you don't have to listen to this " youngster" . BTW a 480 hp "Bartz" Ford F5000 engine was a Weber carbed , Boss 302 with 12.5cr My friend Ray Wolfe (rip) used to own one "in the day".
   Randy

[Joe-JDC]

I ran across a funnelweb a while back.  I’m sure it’s one of the fake ones.  What Do you look for to tell if it’s one of the “good” ones?

Look at the third picture above.  The real Funnel Web will have the Australian logo cast into the bottom of the intake.  Joe-JDC

[frnkeore]

Is there any info on the 2x4, short runner, Holley Sniper?

[frnkeore]

Randy, I met Al in 1976. I was trying to sell a dry sump pump, I had just finished. I was a prototype,  of a H&M type pump that I have. He wasn't interested in trying it but, we had a great conversation.

In the F5000 days, everyone ran 48mm IDA Webers, Lucas injection or side draft, 58mm DCOE.

I've not set a HP goal but, this is to see if the average torque can be maximized in the last 2000 rpm of the power band at the 8000 rpm level, using LSA.

Randy, where you ever involved in the Trans Am racing?

[gt350hr]

   Frank ,
      "In the day ", no. I was too busy drag racing. For the last 50 some years I have had a fascination for Ford experimental parts like were used in the Trans Am Mustangs. Some people call me an authority but I am just obsessed with the stuff. I have helped many of the "vintage T/A" guys that own the original cars with parts and advice.
    Randy

[frnkeore]

I will start with a 4v but, these are my 8v options.

The Holley 300-275, with my own top plate.

[gt350hr]

  The sniper is the way to go . Don't waste your time on the Offy or Weiand tunnel ram unless you do some cutting and welding. The Sniper has all the mods done already.