Author Topic: considering face plating toploader  (Read 2242 times)

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6667fan

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considering face plating toploader
« on: November 13, 2019, 10:46:15 AM »
Trans is out to check /inspect. Its a David Kee all aluminum with a wide ratio gear set. It started to not always want to cleanly downshift third to second last year. That graduated to fourth to third being finicky also. Replaced the GL-4 oil at beginning of summer and I drained it the other day and it is clean. Upshifts fine. Comp Plus shifter that is adjusted via the neutral gates method. Gave it to a local 4-spd builder the other day to inspect.
Brings us to the real question of having the gears/sliders face plated while its apart. Application is my street car Fairlane. Car was at track this fall and the goal is to get track time in next summer, not sure how often but it will remain a street car. I searched  threads on this site and others regarding driving a face plated trans on the street and found only a few responses. The power level of engine is over 600 hp/tq.
The dilemma is can't afford a G-Force 101, not excited about a Jerico. Kinda stuck with TL but realize power level risks spitting parts. Don't plan on powershifting it, just better speed shifting than currently occurs. Will be moving to either a vertical gate shifter or a Super Shifter also. Not a daily driver car. I'm okay with some additional effort to shift car on street, how much effort is what I'm asking to hear about.

Thanks,
JB
JB


67 Fairlane 500
482 cid 636/619.
Tunnel Wedge, Survival EMC CNC heads, Lykins Custom Hydraulic Roller, Ram adjustable clutch, Jerico 4-spd, Strange third member with Detroit Locker, 35 spline axles, 4.86
10.68@125.71 1.56 60’

427LX

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 10:55:32 AM »
Well I have read that you have to shift it quick and possibly double clutch to prevent burring up or wear on the face plates.
I had thought about having that done on my TKO 600 but changed my mind on it.

cjshaker

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 11:47:41 AM »
I've got several hundred street miles on my Jerico install, and it would not be any different than driving a face plated TL.
My experience is, and I have a high tolerance for what other people would consider 'not streetable', that it is not a huge deal if you mainly drive in sparse or little traffic. There are a few different ways of shifting; double clutching, RPM matching, or just hard shifting like you'd do if you were racing it. I prefer double clutching or RPM matching, but I drive on either deserted roads or roads that have very little traffic. My one-horse town only has 3 stoplights, so not a big deal.

BUT, if you drive in heavily populated areas, or areas with heavy traffic, I don't think I'd be so quick to want to drive it. People are very impatient these days, and you'll have a lot of unhappy people following you, especially in stop and go traffic. I can't even count how many times I've about been rear-ended by tailgaters when I go to shift, and not just in the Mach, but in all my stick shift vehicles. It's nice to get the finger when your just driving normally....in front of people who are apparently trying to escape the apocalypse.

I plan on driving my Mach this year in Drag Week, so I say go for it if you have a high tolerance for the unacceptable  ;)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

e philpott

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 11:59:21 AM »
You can also just Face Plate 3-4 and or 2-3-4 for street also

6667fan

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 02:22:50 PM »
Hey Doug,
Where are the videos of you driving the Mach around on the street with the Jerico and the long shifter. I have seen them but can't find 'em.

Thanks,
JB
JB


67 Fairlane 500
482 cid 636/619.
Tunnel Wedge, Survival EMC CNC heads, Lykins Custom Hydraulic Roller, Ram adjustable clutch, Jerico 4-spd, Strange third member with Detroit Locker, 35 spline axles, 4.86
10.68@125.71 1.56 60’

cjshaker

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 08:20:56 AM »
Hey Doug,
Where are the videos of you driving the Mach around on the street with the Jerico and the long shifter. I have seen them but can't find 'em.

Thanks,
JB

I haven't made any videos of street driving since the Jerico install this Spring. The street driving videos I have on YouTube are when the toploader was in it. I do have a couple vidoes from when I raced it at the FE R&R this year. They just threw salt on the roads this week, so the car is done for the year, or I'd make a couple and upload them for you to see.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

6667fan

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 12:06:37 PM »
Doug,
Send me a link to them or suggest what to put in search window. The Long shifter is in the car then? The TL was not faceplated correct?

Thanks,
JB
JB


67 Fairlane 500
482 cid 636/619.
Tunnel Wedge, Survival EMC CNC heads, Lykins Custom Hydraulic Roller, Ram adjustable clutch, Jerico 4-spd, Strange third member with Detroit Locker, 35 spline axles, 4.86
10.68@125.71 1.56 60’

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2019, 07:45:43 AM »
For the most part, driving a face plated transmission is like driving a big truck.  Slow and easy and it won't make even a tick of noise while shifting.   Some feel the need to just jam it into gear.  I don't feel that is necessary and just undo wear/tear.  Faceplating is not as touchy for wear as the old style pro shift rings.  Those old rings would burr up and not shift.  Faceplating is much more forgiving.  Again it takes some finesse, especially on downshifts(like driving a big truck).  Learn the RPM that it works best and just repeat that procedure.  For instance, most times it is about a 1000 rpm drop between gears.  So as long as you rev it up 1000 rpm, it can downshift pretty smoothly.

All depends on your capabilities and what you consider as "streetable".

I could drive my Nash daily and not wince once, but again I drive a 60 yr old Mack so I'm used to it.
Larry

cjshaker

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2019, 12:10:43 PM »
The toploader was all stock, and yes, I installed the Long shifter when I installed the Jerico.

Here's the first run at FE R&R 2019. Literally my first time racing with the trans and shifter, and you can tell on the 1-2 shift where I babied it like the toploader. I realized my mistake right away and did it right on the 2-3 shift.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NoKofCDF2Q

2nd run, getting the feel for it still, but I'm still letting up on the gas. It was a hard habit to break, and sometimes still is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F26anSU_bKU

The toughest part on the street is in stop and go traffic, when you get caught needing to downshift to 1st but you're still rolling, like when the light changes to green but you haven't stopped the car completely. You either need to come to a complete stop, or jam it into gear. There's no easy way about it. I really wish 1st gear was synchronized for that reason, but they aren't designed for street use, so it is what it is. I've learned to try and time the lights best I can and either slip the clutch a bit in 2nd to get the car moving to speed, or bring the car to a quick stop and throw it in 1st quick.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2019, 02:38:52 PM »
Like a truck transmission, just blip the throttle with the clutch out/trans neutral, then push clutch and slip in gear.  You only need to get the cluster moving a bit faster to mesh without banging.  With some practice it will be very easy.  Not always perfect, but once you learn what it likes it will become second nature.
Larry

6667fan

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Re: considering face plating toploader
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2019, 02:53:17 PM »
I called the trans builder this a.m. and said to go for it. I’m used to making things more difficult so f:!k it. Used to build choppers that were NOT user friendly.
Thanks much for responses guys.
JB
JB


67 Fairlane 500
482 cid 636/619.
Tunnel Wedge, Survival EMC CNC heads, Lykins Custom Hydraulic Roller, Ram adjustable clutch, Jerico 4-spd, Strange third member with Detroit Locker, 35 spline axles, 4.86
10.68@125.71 1.56 60’