Author Topic: Guess the horsepower - first of two "sneaky 461" - extra cheating included (Read 4671 times)

My427stang · « **on:** November 01, 2019, 05:47:59 AM »

I am bringing two engines down to Kentucky on November 15, going to have a couple dyno days, good reason to hang around with Brent, escape Nebraska for a working couple of days "off", along with a good midpoint for the owner. This is the first of two 461s, the second I will post in another thread. I figured I'd throw it out to see what people think.

The reason I say some cheating included is that I have dyno data for a nearly identical build, same dyno, and I will include the changes here, so you are really only guessing the difference of the parts.

Here is the first CJ that was done on the same dyno.

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=7690.0

Here is the engine to be dyno'd, different engine completely, but listed all the changes from the last one

461 cid 428, 10.3:1, Racetech dish pistons, 1.0/1.0/2.0 Mahle rings, .010 above deck, .041 quench (all minor changes)
Heads went from CnC ported CJ iron, to Trick Flow heads name milled off to hide them a little
Intake went from locally ported CJ iron, to Joe Craine ported -F PI intake flowing between 350-370 cfm per port
Cam went from 237/237 .634, 114 LSA on 106 to 235/237 .634, 114 LSA on 107
Carb went from 830 cfm Quick Fuel Brawler to custom built Quick Fuel 780 cfm vac sec
Connecting rods went from SCAT 6.70 to Molnar 6.70 much lighter
Windage Tray went from Ford factory CJ to Canton Screen
Oil pump went from M57HV out of the box, to Doug Garifo bluepwinted M57HV with standard spring, shimmed with his provided +10 psi shim

As you can see, many small changes from the combo this summer, the biggest being the Trick Flow heads. No prize forthcoming, but there will be a second engine to guess, and all the glory that comes with guessing it correctly!

This one is going in a 1968.5 CJ fastback Mustang, 4 speed, 3.91s

338Raptor · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2019, 08:51:46 AM »

541 hp

Joe-JDC · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2019, 11:02:11 AM »

599.3 hp Joe-JDC

BBFORDFAN · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2019, 11:56:15 AM »

576hp

fryedaddy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2019, 01:36:17 PM »

imgoing to say 588

Stangman · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2019, 01:39:43 PM »

564 HP
559 Torque
Should be fun in that car.
10.80-11.20 quarter

6667fan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2019, 12:59:38 PM »

546 peak hp

JB

Gregwill16 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2019, 09:23:30 PM »

572 hp

mn67 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 05, 2019, 08:44:53 AM »

530 HP

Twinibeam66 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2019, 08:47:20 AM »

543 HP

DuckRyder · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2019, 07:23:26 AM »

I'm gonna say 533.

Good looking engine!

My427stang · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2019, 09:39:50 AM »

As I said, ready to go with two, this one looks deceivingly stock

Should be fun on the dyno and even more fun in a 68.5 3.91 geared fastback Mustang!

hhiibel · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2019, 03:18:58 PM »

535hp. 568tq

My427stang · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2019, 07:57:56 PM »

Really good day on the dyno with the TF headed motor. Really big flat curves and big numbers for a 235 degree intake lobe and 114 LSA, 780 carb, no carb spacers, dual plane, 30 degrees of advance. Looks like a bone stock 68.5 CJ externally

HP 568 @ 5500 (carried 560+ hp from 5250 to 6250) Only 8 hp lower than peak at 6250 rpm

TQ 578 @ 4750 (freight train torque curve at or over 570 fl lbs from 3250 rpm t0 5000 rpm!)

As with the other, I will post the numbers in the dyno section when I get home! This will be a very mean little resto Mustang

Another great day with Brent and the gang, hope to get back soon with another build!

Joe-JDC · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2019, 10:47:54 PM »

Should be a strong streeter. Just curious what the idle rpm was, and how much vacuum it was pulling at idle. That camshaft is close to what I would pick for one of my street builds, and I wonder if it would have enough vacuum for power brakes, etc.? Sounds like it would have been the perfect candidate for a couple of spacer tests. The ram air should work with at least a 1/2" spacer. Joe-JDC

My427stang · « **Reply #15 on:** November 16, 2019, 06:04:45 AM »

Joe, we had it at 900-ish on the Dyno, but I think it would go a little lower

As far as vacuum, forgot to check, but simikar cam, with a lot more cross section in the iron motor had 16, this should have all of that, the cam is actually 2 degrees smaller and less overlap. Should be good for brakes, that’s why I chose the 114 LSA

As far as spacers, I think it would have helped, but we far exceeded the goal and this kept it simple. Your intake worked superbly, this engine in a cam change away from the low 600s, thanks for the help

In addition, Wes Adam’s recurve did exactly what we expected too, nice rebuilt on a stock 68 distributor

chilly460 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 16, 2019, 07:51:22 AM »

Killer combo, I track a lot of these hydro roller strokers and sort of know what to expect, the TFS definitely step it up as you’d expect. Planning almost identical build except I have a BT 2x4, cam is very close to what I figured so glad to see it was so torquey. Thanks for posting

blykins · « **Reply #17 on:** November 16, 2019, 07:57:01 AM »

This little engine rocked.

The TFS heads seem to prove themselves on each build I use and see them on. These "smaller" inch motors are making the same hp/torque as my 482's on CNC ported Edels were making several years ago.

Ross did a good job.

DuckRyder · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2019, 08:20:43 AM »

Impressive...

Is it weird that I would want to stick it in a lime gold coupe with hubcaps...

My427stang · « **Reply #19 on:** November 17, 2019, 11:09:34 AM »

I posted all the data on the dyno page

Closest guesser without going over Stangman! 564/559 estimate on a 568/577 actual. Nice work.

There is no Bullock's Repair Service swag to offer, but you have my respect and admiration

Stangman · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2019, 01:33:43 PM »

Glad you guys had a good day Ross. Those TFS heads are really proving themselves, seems like an extra 20 or so horsepower over most aftermarket heads right out of the box. The timing at 30 is that all in or that doesn’t include initial? I like how deceiving it’s going to look under the hood until you start it up of course. Yeah 2 lucky guesses on my part but that’s only cause there was nothing to win. I never win anything!!

Keep us informed on the Stang motor install.

My427stang · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2019, 01:47:41 PM »

Quote from: Stangman on November 17, 2019, 01:33:43 PM

Glad you guys had a good day Ross. Those TFS heads are really proving themselves, seems like an extra 20 or so horsepower over most aftermarket heads right out of the box. The timing at 30 is that all in or that doesn’t include initial? I like how deceiving it’s going to look under the hood until you start it up of course. Yeah 2 lucky guesses on my part but that’s only cause there was nothing to win. I never win anything!! Keep us informed on the Stang motor install.

Timing was all in. My wife makes T-shirt designs as a hobby, been toying with some Bullock's Repair Service shirts, have to see what she can come up with. If so, you can be the first with a T-shirt in a long time (25 years since I left, 9 years since dad passed)

turbohunter · « **Reply #22 on:** November 20, 2019, 02:45:17 PM »

I’d buy a couple Ross I always need t shirts and love obscure automotive related businesses.

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Author Topic: Guess the horsepower - first of two "sneaky 461" - extra cheating included (Read 4671 times)