1964 Thunderbird 390FE - Overhaul thoughts and considerations

[TinkerDrawer]

Hello All!

I am new to the forum - been lurking for a bit but have joined! I am working on a 1964 Thunderbird with a 390FE. Long story - car was bought as a project during my mother's treatment for cancer (I was a partial caregiver for 3 years, worked full-time, went to graduate school, and tended to my multiply disabled brother) - she wanted to help me with it and ride/drive it when she was well - she passed away May 22nd at 12:15pm... Things did not go to plan obviously and it is heartbreaking, but I am trying to honor her.

So, the bird is going to be somewhat of a tribute now. I have worked on the car during my grief and have made a great deal of progress due to sleepless nights and so on - also lots of help on my hacked up electrical system via the thunderbird forums - great guys and gals. The old girl runs pretty good, but does have some blue smoke when I get on it and so on.

I want to perform an overhaul. I do not have a great deal of money but I have accumulated many tools over the past few years and want to tackle this job myself. I would like to pull the motor, tear it down, make sure it is within reasonable tolerances, if so, rering it, replace the gaskets, oil pump, have a valve job done on the heads by a machine shop but keep the stock heads and intake. I hear moly rings can be more forgiving. I also think that maybe I should consider a slightly more aggressive cam than stock, but only slightly as I don't want to change the profile of the motor too much - just something that would be a slight upgrade, more for power than sound (maybe its a bad idea - if so then I guess a good stockish replacement cam and lifters. I bought the Big block books I could find and will start in on them soon and am watching videos. However, I wanted to ask what you all thought of my plans, maybe give me some pointers, recommendations on a cam and lifter set - and an overhaul kit.

This will be the first time I have pulled a motor - so many firsts for me. The car is not in the best shape, I am still working on it, but it is more of restomod than anything else. Keeping original where it makes sense and so on.

Thoughts, considerations - warnings?

[67428GT500]

That's a pretty good undertaking for a first project.  As you know there are a ton of vacuum lines and controls under the hood. You'll want to take pictures of everything before you take it a part. I would get a few boxes of cheap zip lock bags. Label EVERYTHING and bag it as you disassemble it. Write on the bag with a sharpie. 
A 390 isn't terrible expensive to rebuild.  I wouldn't cut corners and re-ring and slap it back together. I would go ahead and rebuild the engine.  It's a relatively large undertaking and you won't want to do it twice... Or three times.  You might even consider a good builder in your area and let them do the short block for you. The rest of the assembly is relatively straight forward.  Make sure you don't get in a hurry.  One of the huge things.

As for your mother, I would like to extend my condolences to you and your family.  I am dealing with my father who is in late stages of prostate cancer that has metastasized and my mother with inoperable brain cancer; Both parents being diagnosed withing two months of each other. I understand all too well.

There is a wealth of knowledge here and I am sure most will be more than willing to assist you as you work through the tribute to your mother.

                                                                                                Kindest Regards, Keith

[TinkerDrawer]

Hey Keith and crew!

I am a little nervous about the project, but I figure if I don't jump in I never will, and I think I can do it. I the tools, I just need to build the skills and learn. Also, time would help. Great advice on taking pictures and cataloging. I was hoping to video some of it, just gotta save some money for a camera. I would like to get it all on video actually - maybe I will do it step by step. I think someone has been into my engine before the intake has new form a gasket in the front and back - well newish. Also, it looks like the manifolds have been off too as a couple of bolts look "shiny."

I looked up short blocks online and it would seem I could buy one without a core charge for like 1500 bottom basement and over 2k with upgrades. I really want to do it myself though as I don't really trust shops that much - have been burned many times and am gun shy on it. If I could do just an overhaul it would be ideal.

If I did go with a short block are there any places you guys recommend?

Also, if I did just rering it and clean her up, new bearings, cam, lifters, and valve job - I would take any recommendations on stock like kits and cam ideas (or slightly upgraded cam ideas) that you all have to offer - I am a sponge at this point trying to soak up all the FE help I can. I plan to replace the flywheel as well - I think the riskiest part is probably reringing it - but it makes the most sense for the budget...but just not sure yet.

Thank you for your kind words of condolences. I am so sorry to hear about your parents...that is just terrible Keith, terrible...My dad is 60 and lost without my mom. my brother cannot express in anything other than rage and nervousness... it's rough. I can somewhat relate to the worry and stress you are under and I am so so sorry. Cancer is the most filthy and insidious of diseases - it is a thief in the night. 

I am trying to honor my mother's memory...she never even got to see the car in person, too sick to walk and see it...this all can be too much at times.

[Yellow Truck]

I think Kieth was suggesting you find a builder to rebuild your short block, not buy one. First, if it is the original block you should try to keep it. Second, not a lot of reputable businesses out there selling off the shelf short blocks.

Having said that, you really want to find a shop that has a lot of experience with FEs. Lots of shops are quite ignorant about them because they see 1,000 SBCs for every FE they might ever see.

Depending on where you are, there are a few guys offering insight and advice on this forum who can build a very stout and reliable short block that will get you 100,000 miles of trouble free use, or 600 hp and a little less in terms of miles.

[TinkerDrawer]

Thanks guys,

I am in Louisville, KY - anyone nearybyish know of some good shops?

So, a rering overhaul - if things are in spec, is highly advised against? Also, any short block sellers I should shy away from - I see what looks like some professional stuff online. I know ATK is bad - what about Jasper? Was thinking I could just save my block and put another in if I went with a prebuilt short block. I would really like to do the short block myself if possible, going to have to read some more - it seems straight-forward as long as you take your time. But you guys have the experience so I will defer to your judgment. If this project is too big for a newbie I will back up and save up some cash for short block prep.

[cattleFEeder]

Brent is in ky, http://www.lykinsmotorsports.com/index.html

[Yellow Truck]

Lucky you, Brent would be one of those builders. I'm a few thousand miles from any of them over here on Vancouver Island.

[wayne]

What is wrong with the engine know how many miles does it run.

[Heo]

How worn is the cyl? a ball hone, re ring and new bearings
can maket it last for a long time especialy on a stock engine
thats not driven so many miles each year. you dont need to
bee a sientist to do that by yourself save a few bucks and
learn a thing or two
start with a compression/leakdown test so you have a clue
what it may need

[machoneman]

"The old girl runs pretty good, but does have some blue smoke when I get on it and so on."

I'd....

-do a hot compression test first. 
-then if funky, try a leakdown test even if you pay someone to do it.
-if o.k., merely pull the rocker shafts, pop the springs and check if the OEM rubber (and they were mainly rubber back then) valve seals are intact (likely not) or are in pieces (if so, they are in the oil pan).
-check that the valve guides are tight and o.k. Careful not to let the valve slip down (2 ways to do so).
-if the seals were shot, that is the likely source of your blue smoke issue.

It's amazing how just a few hours and a few $ can make it all right, given as you said the engine is still peppy.

One other thing.

The timing chain is likely loose and if the engine has the OEM Ford silent nylon cam gear, you do want to tear off the front dress and replace the 2 gears and chain. Likewise, a wasted cam gear will drop nylon into the pan so....pulling it, checking the oil pump screen and maybe even swapping in a new pump and pickup is a good idea.

Point of all this is: you may not need any short block work at all.

Btw, Do not mention Jasper and any engine short block in the same sentence! Stay away from those folks.

[Heo]

About a month ago i helped a young kid that bought a El camino that the
engine seized when i he drowe it of the trailer. Got shafted buying two
other of those undestructibel CSB , was running when they lifted them out.....
yeeaaa right ....with spun bearings and so on . Anyway He have a 427
i got him a while back so he just needed a interim engine while hes looking for
a trans and rear end so he could install the 427. Ower a weekend I used the best parts from his junkheap
ballhoned a block polished a crank picked out the best rods and pistons, re ring, new bearings
new timing chain , oilpump, valveseals. Its up running nice and quiet, use no oil will probably
run for years with out problem. Would i do this with a hiperf engine ?? Noooo  but he was out of money
and had a string of bad luck for the last couple of years. So i had to get him up and running
I think your 390 thats runs fine just smoke a bit will do fine with a re ring job

[TinkerDrawer]

What is wrong with the engine know how many miles does it run.

Hello,
Not sure about the miles on the car. I bought it on eBay - last car I buy on there lol. The previous owner changed out the cluster and had no idea. He thought it had somewhere near 80k on the clock. From my experience with the car, I would say it sat for long periods of time. Much of the work that was done to the car by the previous owner was total crap work...with exception of the brakes, I think he had those done because they are in good shape - looks professional. He tried to bypass relays with fuses and that totally did not work, he replaced the gas tank with a new one....but the filler neck leaked...But an Edelbrock 1406 on it...but had it WAY TOO RICH. Replaced the water pump but torqued the bolts so hard that it broke the ear that held the power steering pump in line...the list goes on lol. Oh, my favorite, installed a new neutral safety switch but bypassed it and put a starter button. Did lots of weird stuff inside, painted panels inside black with cheap paint that never cured correctly. I have been repairing his repairs ever since.
 

[TinkerDrawer]

What is wrong with the engine know how many miles does it run.

It smokes and has lots of leaky seals:(

[TinkerDrawer]

How worn is the cyl? a ball hone, re ring and new bearings
can maket it last for a long time especialy on a stock engine
thats not driven so many miles each year. you dont need to
bee a sientist to do that by yourself save a few bucks and
learn a thing or two
start with a compression/leakdown test so you have a clue
what it may need

I am leaning this way pretty hard as I want to learn as much as I can. What do you think about the cam and cam bearings? Should I go with a new cam, something just slightly hotter than stock? I have access to the tool to install those bearings so tools are not a problem.

[TinkerDrawer]

About a month ago i helped a young kid that bought a El camino that the
engine seized when i he drowe it of the trailer. Got shafted buying two
other of those undestructibel CSB , was running when they lifted them out.....
yeeaaa right ....with spun bearings and so on . Anyway He have a 427
i got him a while back so he just needed a interim engine while hes looking for
a trans and rear end so he could install the 427. Ower a weekend I used the best parts from his junkheap
ballhoned a block polished a crank picked out the best rods and pistons, re ring, new bearings
new timing chain , oilpump, valveseals. Its up running nice and quiet, use no oil will probably
run for years with out problem. Would i do this with a hiperf engine ?? Noooo  but he was out of money
and had a string of bad luck for the last couple of years. So i had to get him up and running
I think your 390 thats runs fine just smoke a bit will do fine with a re ring job

Very cool. I think I will go this way, budget. I need to run some tests for sure. I was going to send the heads out for a valve job and I was thinking about moly rings, and a slightly hotter cam than stock - or should I stay with the stock cam if it is in good enough shape? I would really like to replace the lifters cam, and cam bearings.