Edelbrock 60069 heads.

[JimNolan]

Guys,
I need to know a few things.
1. Can you use a .020 ( if I can find them ) steel shim head gaskets on the Edelbrock 60069 heads.
2. Will the 6009 Edelbrock Rocker Arm Studs allow me to use my stock 1.73 Ford Rocker Arms and stock valve covers.
3. Will the stock head bolts work with these heads.
4. Does the 60069 head really have 72cc chambers or do you get them and they end up having 76cc's, etc.

I'm NOT taking the piston's back out of this block to get over 7.5 DCR, and if I've got to use thick gaskets I'm screwed. Those piston's have 15cc dishes and it would have worked out well with stock heads but I'm tired of throwing money at lesser heads if I don't have to. Jim

 PS  Can anyone see an alternative and still make the 60069 heads work.

[afret]

Don't know if it's a good idea to use shim gaskets with Edelbrocks.  You can get Cometic MLS gaskets that are .027" thick in any bore size.  The newer Edelbrocks are supposed to be closer to their advertised combustion chamber volume.  You can get the heads milled and you lose somewhere around 2cc for each .01" milled.  Should be able to safely mill a lot off these heads if needed. Your studs and rockers should work.
The ARP head bolts might be better since they come with washers to go against the aluminum.

[JimNolan]

I talked to Preston ( Edelbrock Tech ) and he said there was no reason why I shouldn't be able to use the 1132G steel shim gaskets I have on the aluminum heads. If there's anyone that had trouble with these gaskets and aluminum heads, I need to know "now". I should be able to mill .012" off the aluminum heads and end up with 9.6 SCR and 7.6 DCR. Thanks, Jim
 PSSSSSSSS. The instructions with the heads say that you have to use 1.76 adjustable rockers with these heads. I called Edelbrock back and they said they wouldn't stand behind the application if I didn't use 1.76 rockers. Don't understand it. Can't figure out how the heads know if you're using 1.73 rockers or 1.76 rockers. I guess these heads are just meant for people that go with their hair on fire all the time. Oh well.

[jayb]

I can't imagine you would have any issue using the 1.73 non-adjustable rockers; should not be a problem.

+1 on Earl's idea to mill the heads.  The decks on those heads are THICK, and I've milled at least one pair over .060" to get the chamber size where I wanted it.  I had an early pair (~2005) that were supposed to be 72cc and ended up being 78cc, but my later pair were right on 72cc.  Doesn't really matter though if you can mill them.

[JimNolan]

 Jay,   
 That's me Jay, I asked him why and he said they wanted to make sure I had the right pre-load on the lifter. I told him I was using a tool to check push rod length before I fired it up and all he could say is the instructions says 1.76 adjustable rockers "REQUIRED" and they wouldn't stand behind them if I had problems. I figured it might be that the valve springs might be heavier and they didn't want someone using 5/16" push rods. They give 120 lbs closed and that's 20lbs more than what my cam calls for.
  I really want them, now if they send me a bad head I'm afraid I might have trouble getting a replacement if I don't jump through hoops for them. I don't need solid lifters and adjustable rockers are an expensive way to set valve lash on a hydraulic lifter. Jim

[drdano]

How would they actually know if you used the adjustable rockers or not?     In the unlikely event of a problem, I'd say they can't.  Besides, if you mill them they are yours anyway forever, so I'd not worry to much about it.  You'll be fine with the non-adjustable rockers, sounds like you know what you're doing setting them up correctly. 

[JimNolan]

You know what. I'm getting old and I don't think I'll be taking it with me anyway. What they are telling me doesn't make sense, and, like you said, milling them makes them mine anyway. Jim 

[JimNolan]

Afret,
    It's done. The cometic 4.08" X .027 MLS gaskets are on the way. Tomorrow I'll order the heads from Summit, unless there's a cheaper place I find. Anyway, I'll get 3/8" push rods to size and use the 1.73 rocker ratio. The nice thing about these gaskets is, I'm now at 9.4 SCR and 7.5 DCR without milling the heads. If I were building a screamer I'd go ahead and raise the DCR but I just want it to run good, that's all. I read a feedback of a guy that put 40,000 miles on a set of 60069's without any trouble. I hope he wasn't blowing smoke. Jim

[My427stang]

What happened to ported C1s?  They'll outflow the Edels by 40 cfm.  I like Edel heads, just wondering why the change?

- I don't think stock head bolts will fit, or in the very least I do not think you can get a socket on them. I'd go aftermarket with a washer.

- You can run the stock rockers, but not sure what pushrod length you'd need AND you'd need to run  stud kit, you can't use the stock length rocker stand bolts

- All the sets I have had come through were slightly larger than advertised, all were above 74 cc

- I don't see any issue with the head gasket you want, assuming the block is decked for a nice flat surface

I would check installed heights and spring pressures though, I have seen Edels come with some stout springs, hate to see you eat a cam

[JimNolan]

427stang,
    My machinest is putting me off, Les won't answer the damned phone and I figure I'd have as much in shipping as I would in getting the heads done anyway. I'm tired. I want to bolt on and go. I've fooled with this thing and calculated until I'm exhausted. And, my Desktop Dyno 5 goes wild with this setup I'm putting together. I'll pay good money to have a job done for me but I won't tolerate being jerked around and still have to pony up that same money. O yes, ARP bolts and washers. I'm getting the 6009 stud kit for the heads too. Jim

[jayb]

FWIW the stock head bolts work fine on Edelbrock heads.  I used them when I did the low buck 390 stroker for the Car Craft article.  Seems to me I had to use a 3/8 drive socket with a 1/2" drive adapter to torque the head bolts; the 3/8" socket fit in the counterbore in the heads, but the 1/2" socket didn't.  I also used the stock rockers shafts and rocker bolts; just used some washers under the bolts to make sure they didn't bottom out in the holes in the heads.  No issues with any of that...

[JimNolan]

Everyone,
   I really appreciate the patience and help you've given me. Information you guys take for granted is very benificial to me. Not having to mill the heads takes a big load off. This should be a good running, hopefully dependable build. It won't be lifting the frount end off the ground but it should make a nice engine for a 4000 lb car. Thanks again. Jim

[WConley]

Jim -

If you're milling those Ed heads, be sure to leave a SMOOTH surface finish.  Those MLS head gaskets typically require a roughness average (Ra) of 20 or better.  Ford 4.6L heads were generally 12-15 Ra  in production.

Here's a little article that talks about it:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/93036/smooth_moves_todays_surfaces_often_demand_different_finishes.aspx

FYI - Standard composite head gaskets are far more tolerant of rough surface finish and waviness than these MLS gaskets.

- Bill


Edit - I see from your last post that you're no longer thinking of milling the heads after all.  Best of luck with your build!

[JimNolan]

Bill,
   Hopefully the heads will come in at 72cc's. I'll cc them when they come in. If not, I'll have to mill and I will remember your post. Thanks, Jim

[JimNolan]

427stang,
    I called Edelbrock and they confirmed the 60069 heads came with the 5792 valve springs. They said the seat pressure and pressure at .600 was 132/312 lbs. respectively. I called Scott Main at Cam Research and he pulled the files on the cam he made me. He said the installed height and spring pressures would be all right with my cam. Now, if the heads come in at 72 cc's I should be set. Thanks again. Jim