Author Topic: Let the debunking begin  (Read 1186 times)

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427Fastback

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2019, 10:17:01 PM »
I would think that John V would be on the list of guys to ask about this one....Up here in BC we have a Shelby built Cougar GTE and a Galaxie with a CJ and tri-power...Owners swear they are authentic....We call them one of none..

No paper work,no tags and no proof....Just a interesting story....
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

67428GT500

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2019, 11:03:32 PM »
Yeah, just like the 1967 Shelbys with a 427.  We saw that '65 Mustang fastback that was supposedly built by Shelby and he happened to " Hug the guy and smile and tell him about the two cars"  Shelby remembers little about the Supersnake and that made the press. I also knew Carroll Shelby and He wasn't a smiling warm kind of guy. He was very a matter of fact and direct, usually with colorful comments in between.
The stories for most are nice but simply BS.
'Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you will always long to return.'

WConley

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2019, 11:44:51 PM »
No way there was an "X-Garage" in Watkins Glen.  As stated earlier, the real X-Garage was at the Dearborn Proving Ground on Oakwood Blvd.  Drive a few miles down the Southfield Freeway and you have Engine Manufacturing Development Operations, where the cammer engines (and most other prototype engines) were hand-assembled.  Roughly between those two facilities was the Pilot Plant.

I worked in Ford Engineering and I was in those facilities many, many times for projects.  On any development program, you had lots of technicians, prototype mechanics, fabricators, engineers, drafting room guys, etc. working together.  All of those folks were within a few minutes of each other in Dearborn. 

Who in their right mind would ship such a high profile project to the backwaters of upstate New York?  All of the Top Secret projects I ever heard of stayed right in the Dearborn area.  Sometimes we'd do unusual stuff at Roush or McLaren Engines if we wanted it out of sight, but it was always within a close drive for any team member.  Big companies run on meetings!

This story holds no water at all.  I bet that "original" car doesn't even have the factory cast iron SOHC headers.  Some poor buyer is in for a big disappointment.

- Bill
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

67428GT500

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2019, 04:12:49 AM »
My spouse is from Watkins Glen. It's a crock of crap fabricated to raise the value of the vehicle.  Her father was a Glen official. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 07:14:52 PM by 67428GT500 »
'Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you will always long to return.'

GJCAT427

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2019, 05:28:27 AM »
Both of those links smell a little fishy. The auction description is more or less a PR sales pitch to excite buyers to bid high. I see some "facts" that contradict actual known facts. Again "Buyer Beware". 

Katz427

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2019, 08:08:21 AM »
I agree, there was no Ford garage at Watkins Glen, on or near the race track. Having been at the facilities multiple times in the mid to late sixties, I can say that story is fantasy.  Some discussion on Hemming's Motor News about the car. Dr. John Craft and a few others doubt this 1965 Galaxie's story.

TomP

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2019, 11:40:20 AM »
From Hemmings story
"In addition to those two, however, Ford built at least one more SOHC Galaxie, according to John Rummel, a Ford FE collector from Fort Worth, Texas. Originally built in Dearborn as a 289-powered car, the Galaxie 500 two-door hardtop (chassis number 5F66M100016) was never intended for sale to the public, Rummel said. Instead, Ford marked it with a District Sales Office number of 87, the code for further internal work. That work apparently included the installation of an M-code dual-quad SOHC 427 and four-speed manual transmission as well as a full 1965 Lincoln Continental front suspension and four-link rear suspension."

Hmmm, so if Dearborn plant was building Mustangs and this was built there as a 289 then how did it get the M code?
I wonder what the rest of the Data plate says.  I assume it is a repro. Is that VIN on the cowl and frame?

I would love for this to be proven as the real deal and certainly there must be several people still around who would know.

machoneman

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2019, 01:18:11 PM »
From Hemmings story
"In addition to those two, however, Ford built at least one more SOHC Galaxie, according to John Rummel, a Ford FE collector from Fort Worth, Texas. Originally built in Dearborn as a 289-powered car, the Galaxie 500 two-door hardtop (chassis number 5F66M100016) was never intended for sale to the public, Rummel said. Instead, Ford marked it with a District Sales Office number of 87, the code for further internal work. That work apparently included the installation of an M-code dual-quad SOHC 427 and four-speed manual transmission as well as a full 1965 Lincoln Continental front suspension and four-link rear suspension."

Hmmm, so if Dearborn plant was building Mustangs and this was built there as a 289 then how did it get the M code?
I wonder what the rest of the Data plate says.  I assume it is a repro. Is that VIN on the cowl and frame?

I would love for this to be proven as the real deal and certainly there must be several people still around who would know.

Bet John Rummel owned it at one point, build it himself, sold it as gennie or maybe he hits 2 out of these 3!
Bob Maag

ntheogen

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2019, 08:36:44 PM »
John still owns it, that's who is selling it.

machoneman

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2019, 08:29:05 AM »
John still owns it, that's who is selling it.

That's what I thought. Thx.
Bob Maag

BH107

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2019, 03:40:47 PM »
John has been trying to get the car authenticated for years, and no former Ford guys will get near it. Even when he had it in Detroit in 2015 the guys that were there in 1965 just rolled their eyes.

gt350hr

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2019, 10:02:12 AM »
 DSO 87 does NOT specifically mean it was marked or held for modification "by itself". It was fairly common for early production cars to be sent to a specific Ford location. To be a car destined for "further internal work" it would "normally" get an asset ( brass ) tag and there would be paperwork ( elusive to Mr Rummel because it likely doesn't exist) to show what was done as "some " department had to pay for the rework. Everything had to be accounted for.
   Randy

C8OZ

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2019, 10:09:39 AM »
Does anyone here have a copy of the list of brass tag cars/special vehicles activity from this period? I've seen a section from 66-67 posted elsewhere.

And slightly OT...If so, I'd love to see the '68 data if it exists.
68 Torino GT Conv. (FE Limbo) 4spd

gt350hr

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Re: Let the debunking begin
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2019, 10:41:24 AM »
  I have a partial ( relating to racing entities) from '69. I haven't seen another.