Author Topic: the great fe head comparo  (Read 12077 times)

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CaptCobrajet

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 11:42:38 AM »
I think there are so many iterations that it still isn't doable.  There would have to be categories, or classes of heads, based on PRICE, and what the heads will bolt up to.  The best flowing and/or best working stuff is not going to bolt up to a store bought gasket......intake or exhaust.

I have some ports that physically fit into a "medium riser" Edelbrock casting, that require quite a but of manifold work.  You couldn't test those with one manifold.  The FE is unique, in that a third or so of the head is trapped in the manifold, so testing heads at the higher end would mean testing head-manifold combos.

I think it is possible to test some heads, similar in price, similar in valve location, and milled to the same chamber volume, on one shortblock, with one cam.  I think that info would only be useful for the person who wants to build a fairly common, high performance, street engine.......the "which head do I buy" guy.  Past that, testing "ported" heads.....I love that term......that are all ported by the same human, won't give absolute answers because everyone doesn't rub on them the same way. 

In terms of the four or five "$2500 to $3000" per pair heads that are out there, that bolt on basically as Medium Risers...... they would either need to all be prepped(not ported) by the same human, OR they would need to be tested in the "as delivered" complete head form from the various manufacturers who sell them as complete heads.

Five shops can take a bare pair of head castings, finish them ready to run, and one of those five will flow more.  One of those five will make more power.  One of those five will turn the fastest times.  IT MAY NOT BE ONE PAIR THAT DOES ALL THREE. 

What is generally the best offering for a streetable engine in a similar price range?  This can be answered fairly easily.

What is the best head?  This is best answered by a "narrow the search" pop up!
Blair Patrick

Joe-JDC

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2019, 01:31:09 PM »
Well, if someone has a head they wanted to compare, and was willing to supply it for testing, then that would just add to the information available.  I have my own Pro Port heads here, also, as well as CNC'd Edelbrocks, Victor, Victor Dominator, RPM, Performer 390, Streetmaster, Street Dominator, PI, 8V MR, 8V LR, 8V TW, 8V BBM, 390 HP, P-O-S.  I haven't invested in the Trick Flow as yet, simply because I don't really have a need for those or anyone asking for them.  I would add a pair to my inventory with an intake for this kind of dyno comparison, though.  I do think one source for all valve jobs and all port work would be the only way to compare FE to FE in a back to back type of documentation that was valid.  Joe-JDC
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Royce

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2019, 04:46:18 PM »
Blair has a point  this could get bogged down into something that looked like a SBC head shootout with so many combinations.. I think what most guys would like to know are how the 4 aluminum heads that are on the market perform on an engine that probably fits what 80% of the builds are aimed at, hot street, street/strip builds on pump gas.

If one narrowed up the selection of combinations a bit, a meaningful amount of data could be gained without wearing out a dyno. I am gonna throw out my thoughts here, feel free to take aim..

I am guessing the most popular builds would include  .30 or .60 over 390 stock stroke, stock stroke 428, 445 390 based stroker, and maybe a 4.25 bore 427. Testing on one of these short blocks should produce results that would apply to the others.  I would look for trends rather than absolute numbers. 
The big strokers and high compression big cam motors are probably not what the average enthusiast builds. Those motors are usually built by specialists who have their own favorite combinations.

If you specified a hydraulic roller of about 240 duration 10.5 compression that would cover a lot of what guys are building.

For heads I would say as cast, a good valve job, maybe just a light clean up under the seats. Valve size constant, Compression should be equalized as close as possible but a few 10ths are probably not going to invalidate results. Pick a known street friendly good performing manifold, a good carb and have at it.
I think most guys are interested in comparing Edelbrock,Trick flow, BBM, and FElony
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

chilly460

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2019, 05:08:43 PM »
My thought is aligned with Royce, a 235-240* hydro roller 445, running through Ebrock, Felony, BBM, TFS.  I’d think having them all done with valve job and bowl blend would equalize the results.  It’s middle of the road enough that milder combos and more serious engines could see trends while the middle of the market would get info they were looking for.  My guess is unless a 390 was pretty wicked, the numbers wouldn’t vary too much. 

Tommy-T

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2019, 08:55:24 PM »
I think most guys here that are inclined to run aftermarket cylinder heads already have at least some Edelbrock heads.

The difference between intake testing and cylinder head testing is that if I see a 50 horsepower increase from a $1000 intake manifold...I might take the plunge.

If I invested $1500 in some Edelbrock heads and another $1000 in CNC porting, I'm sticking with what I have even if another cylinder head makes 50 more horsepower. Just say'n.

Nobody's say'n it outright, but the TFS deal can't be touched at $1900 retail. OK, add a couple hundred for stand milling and you're still more than a grand ahead of the other heads that flow in the same neighborhood. Even so, I'm not biting cuz I've already got some 300cfm aftermarket FE heads.

All this said, I have a set of CNC ported Carroll Shelby heads that I'll gladly contribute for comparison. Let me know.

428 GALAXIE

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 12:49:15 AM »
Me thinks Royce kinda nailed this....
Now we need to start crowfunding and find the right victim to do this(Jay seems busy).
Mikko

Dan859

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 01:37:23 AM »
If this gets off the ground, I'd contribute to the funding.

plovett

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 06:11:55 AM »
This is a cool idea, but in my opinion it needs to be very limited in scope, for reasons already mentioned.   It can't be like The Great FE Intake Comparo where dozens and dozens of intake manifolds were tested.   It is just not practical.

Maybe 5 or so aftermarket heads with no porting? 

JMO,

paulie

57 lima bean

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2019, 07:17:22 AM »
And then a piston comparo that would lead to piston envy debate.

Royce

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 10:48:42 AM »
Steve I always go with a popup piston to compliment the long stroke
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

Royce

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2019, 11:01:43 AM »
In thinking a little more about this, I think the decision most guys are trying to make involves one of the aluminum heads vs what they have in cast iron

The test would need a production head to compare. I would suggest one of the better high production castings like a G or R. To get one of those up to snuff they would need guides ,seats, new valves and springs etc.. A guy would want to upgrade to CJ valves.  When done lets say he has 1 k in them. The thought process probably goes like this  1K is a lot of money in stock iron heads.  How much more $ to go aluminum and how much do I gain. Which head is the best choice.

Factors would be cost, availability, performance, and ease of use with existing parts/ special operations or additional parts needed

So we have 5 heads,  the 4 aluminum  plus an upgraded cast iron head .. That would give a good base of knowledge for a run of the mill enthusiast to make an informed decision.
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

Jim Comet

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2019, 11:34:20 AM »
Didn't the dualling 390's touch on this a little. Iron head vs the BBM head?

babybolt

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2019, 11:47:15 AM »
Would like to point out couple of things.  Jay went through a bunch of work to test the intakes, and then to get the info out there and recoup some of the money he wrote a book.  But I've talked to several folks on this forum who have yet to order Jay's book.  The book is a bargain for the info it contains.

Same thing when building the 62-65 Fairlanes.  Talked to a bunch of people building one, but they don't belong to the Fairlane Club of America which is only $35 yearly.

 ???

Katz427

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2019, 12:40:07 PM »
The dualling   390's and other tests pretty much tell you all one needs to know. Barry and Brent, and Blair, have certainly been kind enough in sharing data from their tests, as have others. IMO most people look for a combination that reflects their personal desired result. ( And they can afford!) Thankfully that information is available on this site.

57 lima bean

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Re: the great fe head comparo
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2019, 02:22:07 PM »
Steve I always go with a popup piston to compliment the long stroke
   

               
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