Author Topic: Trick Flow heads....  (Read 24839 times)

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blykins

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2019, 02:07:09 PM »
Not sure on that one, but all FE stand studs have the same base thread depth, so it would take something specially made if that were the case.
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jcooper

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2019, 04:51:41 PM »
We saw similar results when installing. The pics attached show rockers on MR stock heads and then as is on the TF heads. We ended up having to cut the rocker stands .200 to get the geometry correct. They run great compared to the stock heads and we saved about 20lbs a head with the swap.
Jerad Cooper
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1968galaxie

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2019, 05:41:17 PM »
I looks like somebody with no clue on rocker geometry designed those shaft mounting pads at that height.  They look to be perfectly aligned at zero lift, which of course is not where they should be.  Go figure...

Looks like it was set up for mid lift with a 0.00" lift cam. :)

Otherwise looks like a very decent head offering.

TimeWarpF100

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2019, 11:35:54 PM »
The TFS engineers are currently working on a solution.
And yes they do read these posts!


blykins

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2019, 05:33:10 AM »
I was talking about this with Ross last night and we were discussing an easy fix for them.  Earlier in this thread, we talked about milling the stand pads down, but I'm not sure this is a viable solution as it would move the feed hole over, just as the hole in a rod journal moves over when you grind a crankshaft.

I suppose their drilling step could be adjusted to drill at the correct angle after milling the pads. 

You could also lengthen the valves, but it would probably put the pushrods way up into the intake pushrod holes and cause some issues there.

Paulie, I agree with you.....I really like the cylinder heads.  They flow well for a 170cc port (the ones I've cc'd here were a tad under that) and the chamber has a really nice shape.  They seem to make excellent horsepower as well.  I recommend their heads quite often, but it's always with a warning about the rocker stands. 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 05:49:53 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
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GerryP

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2019, 10:15:50 AM »
I'm missing something here.  I thought it was something like common knowledge that you had to mill the stands .200" or so  (not the pads on the heads.  That would be foolish) and use custom pushrods to get the correct geometry.  This was something that was highlighted as a caution for anyone when these heads first hit the market. Is that not what is being discussed?

CaptCobrajet

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2019, 10:22:44 AM »
The helicoils are longer.  The threads are deeper.  I use a stud with more base thread to root it deeper.  That is the one benefit to the pad being taller......more engagement.  I just put the rocker stands in the mill and cut them down.  It's not a big deal.....just not a bolt-on and go.

Biggest problem with milling the pads is that you will have to pull the helicoils out so you don't destroy an end mill, and then you have to put a shorter one back in there, defeating the purpose of having more thread engagement.  If you cut the stands down, the thread hole is still on the same plane.  There is effectively no difference in shaft placement in doing that, or milling stands.....the shaft would end up in the same spot.

The valve cover rail is not raised.

If you want to use their cylinder head, milling the stands is really not a huge deal.  It is just a couple of hours of checking and milling.  The checking always should happen on any head, and sometimes a change of some sort is required on any other head, depending on valve length, rocker arm, or cam lift.  It's just part of building an "other than stock" engine.  Just my opinion.

Brent mentioned that I had made suggestions to them about their manifold.  I talked to them at the Cobra Jet Reunion.  I had just finished a Trick Flow manifold before I went there.  It had no drainback provision to get the oil out of the cylinder head oil drains.  The man I spoke with said they would address that.  I have done four of those intakes, and had to mill the drain into all four.  Maybe they have fixed it......not sure how many were in circulation at the time we spoke.  I don't think gasket thickness is enough space to drain the oil back.  If you buy one, be sure to check for that.  I mill the relief in there, but you can fix it with a template and a die grinder.....just FYI.
Blair Patrick

CaptCobrajet

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2019, 10:30:02 AM »
I'm missing something here.  I thought it was something like common knowledge that you had to mill the stands .200" or so  (not the pads on the heads.  That would be foolish) and use custom pushrods to get the correct geometry.  This was something that was highlighted as a caution for anyone when these heads first hit the market. Is that not what is being discussed?

Changing pushrod length will not change the rocker arm geometry when the shaft is bolted in a fixed position.  That only works when you can slide the rocker up and down a stud mount by changing pushrod length.

As many combos of lifters, heads, and rockers as there are available these days, you can never assume a pushrod length that puts your adjuster in a happy place.  You should plan to measure and get correct pushrods for your specific engine.  Just another one of my opinions.....
Blair Patrick

GerryP

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2019, 10:54:05 AM »


Changing pushrod length will not change the rocker arm geometry when the shaft is bolted in a fixed position.  That only works when you can slide the rocker up and down a stud mount by changing pushrod length.

As many combos of lifters, heads, and rockers as there are available these days, you can never assume a pushrod length that puts your adjuster in a happy place.  You should plan to measure and get correct pushrods for your specific engine.  Just another one of my opinions.....

Poorly written where I included the pushrods for geometry.  I know pushrods have nothing to do with geometry on a shaft system.  I meant you had to mill the stands to correct geometry and THEN use a custom length pushrod to get the ball stud in the proper adjustment position.

Falcon67

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2019, 11:10:11 AM »
As many combos of lifters, heads, and rockers as there are available these days, you can never assume a pushrod length that puts your adjuster in a happy place.  You should plan to measure and get correct pushrods for your specific engine.  Just another one of my opinions.....

Yes, pretty much a given on any motor.  I just assume that procedure.  It's easy - just measure, send a note to Brent with some numbers I get off on this colorful plastic card I have, then in a blink the perfect set of pushrods appear in my mail box.  It's PFM for sure  ;D

MeanGene

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2019, 11:46:05 AM »
Are the threads deeper in head for rocker shaft stand bolts ?
Increased clamping force without pulling threads ?
If not and ports not raised , makes no sense .

Beat me to it lol... Maybe that was their thought, but poor execution? Is there more thread engagement the way they come? Still has to fit right, one could (if there is room) go deeper into the head to get more engagement, but if it was that easy (that room thing) someone would have done it a long time ago

shady

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2019, 12:32:04 PM »
The fact that Jegs & Summit sell these heads, and reading their description, leads a guy like me to believe that they are bolt on and go, to which they obviously aren't. TFS states they are a direct bolt on. Most back yard guys don't have a milling machine. I realize most out of the box aluminum heads may need some tweaking , but the need to lose .200 on stand height is crazy. No big deal to the regular builders, but a big deal to me after dropping big coin for a set of heads. Thank you Brent for the heads up on this.
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blykins

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2019, 03:53:56 PM »
I'm missing something here.  I thought it was something like common knowledge that you had to mill the stands .200" or so  (not the pads on the heads.  That would be foolish) and use custom pushrods to get the correct geometry.  This was something that was highlighted as a caution for anyone when these heads first hit the market. Is that not what is being discussed?

That's not what Trick Flow is telling people.  I spent the better part of 30 minutes explaining to a customer what needed to be done.  He decided to call Trick Flow and confirm and they told him that they didn't need to be touched.  I didn't really appreciate that, it made me look like an idiot. 
Brent Lykins
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Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
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GerryP

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2019, 04:27:22 PM »
That's a significant failure on TF's part if they are not informing customers they can't just run their heads. 

plovett

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Re: Trick Flow heads....
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2019, 04:40:51 PM »
I think Trickflow could do better.

JMO,

paulie