Author Topic: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60  (Read 4013 times)

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chris401

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High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« on: March 01, 2019, 02:24:18 PM »
The original 16 spline Dana 60 that came in the 65 F-250 is the smallest 3/4 ton axle I have personally owned. No problems with the 352 towing up to 19,000 gvw. Like any other Dana I remember the fat end has the splines and are cut no deeper than the shaft itself. Gearing will be 3.54 and would like to keep the original Dana 60 axle. I know bolt in 70s are out there. If I cut anything to fit it will be a Sterling 10.25".

Excluding the rock crawlers has anyone here had problems with a farm/highway towing Dana 60 behind 500lbs of towing torque?

TJ

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 06:29:44 PM »
The FE in my 65F250 makes over 600 lb ft.  I've never had GCW over 16,000 lbs, my differential is open, and I don't mash the hammer in low gears when loaded.  With under 16,000 lbs, I haven't needed to mash it to achieve or maintain freeway speed.

chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 09:22:07 PM »
The FE in my 65F250 makes over 600 lb ft.  I've never had GCW over 16,000 lbs, my differential is open, and I don't mash the hammer in low gears when loaded.  With under 16,000 lbs, I haven't needed to mash it to achieve or maintain freeway speed.
Is yours the 4:10 60 wih the axle hub studs and cones? When I was looking at a 16 spline locker I was also looking at shaft availability.

TJ

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 10:44:32 PM »
Ratio is 4.10 and original.  Been 14 years since I had it apart and can't remember if it has cones.

chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2019, 06:39:17 PM »
Ratio is 4.10 and original.  Been 14 years since I had it apart and can't remember if it has cones.
Sounds like it is the same axle. The cones are behind the nuts where the axle flange bolts to the hub.

BigBlueIron

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 03:24:02 PM »
That is the old wedge lock style and they SUCK trying to pull out. I doubt you will have any issues at 500ftlb.

RustyCrankshaft

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 02:17:30 AM »
Those cone locks for axles are still used on big trucks and industrial axles to this day. The weakness in that axle is at the splines, if you aren't twisting the spines on the axle or tearing them out of the spider it'll be just fine for a long time.

NIsaacs

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 06:34:41 AM »
That is the old wedge lock style and they SUCK trying to pull out. I doubt you will have any issues at 500ftlb.


Smack the end of the axle flange with a good sized hammer, they will pop right out. Don't hit any of the studs, lol
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chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 08:47:34 AM »
I have fished out a broken axle a couple of times as a mechanic but not to the degree I have read about. Thought I may have missed something. My concern was having a replacement axle avliable if I break one out of state. I see it mentioned boring out the old or welding new spindle on to accomodate 35 spline axle shafts. I do not like the idea of taking metal away for a larger shaft, anyone with experience?

RustyCrankshaft

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2019, 02:42:05 AM »
That is the old wedge lock style and they SUCK trying to pull out. I doubt you will have any issues at 500ftlb.


Smack the end of the axle flange with a good sized hammer, they will pop right out. Don't hit any of the studs, lol

I usually leave the nuts on a few threads to help protect the studs and to keep the cones from flying all over the busy freeway. Because there is nothing like chasing those litter buggers all over the road at 2am in the rain with oily hands.

HarleyJack17

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2019, 10:51:18 AM »
[quoteI see it mentioned boring out the old or welding new spindle on to accomodate 35 spline axle shafts.][/quote]

Not sure where you heard that unless you are dealing with a really early axle version.  I went through three housings on my 75 Highboy to make one....loooooong story.
Anyway, the original had 16 spline shafts. Other two were either 31/35 I can't remember.  The spindles and hubs all looked the same and I know I threw the axles side by side...only difference was the spline count. I ended up using the ring and pinion from my original housing, the carrier and spiders and brake parts from a dana 61, and put it all into a late 70s/early 80s housing after cutting and repositioning the axle perches to match my original High Boy axle. Lot of part swapping. If my memory was better I could tell you 100% for sure but at the time that happened I had a lot of stuff going on.  Either way I drove the snot out of it and zero issues.

16 spline axles are a lot stronger than people want to admit.  Just as an FYI lot of big trucks run less splines, but bigger cuts....go look at a 2 1/2 or 5 ton military axle.....looks a lot like what you have, only bigger.

chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2019, 12:46:04 PM »
[quoteI see it mentioned boring out the old or welding new spindle on to accomodate 35 spline axle shafts.]

Not sure where you heard that unless you are dealing with a really early axle version.  I went through three housings on my 75 Highboy to make one....loooooong story.
Anyway, the original had 16 spline shafts. Other two were either 31/35 I can't remember.  The spindles and hubs all looked the same and I know I threw the axles side by side...only difference was the spline count. I ended up using the ring and pinion from my original housing, the carrier and spiders and brake parts from a dana 61, and put it all into a late 70s/early 80s housing after cutting and repositioning the axle perches to match my original High Boy axle. Lot of part swapping. If my memory was better I could tell you 100% for sure but at the time that happened I had a lot of stuff going on.  Either way I drove the snot out of it and zero issues.

16 spline axles are a lot stronger than people want to admit.  Just as an FYI lot of big trucks run less splines, but bigger cuts....go look at a 2 1/2 or 5 ton military axle.....looks a lot like what you have, only bigger.
[/quote]
I looked at a 77 Highboy and a couple of bump side 60's that had the spring perches in the same location as my 65. Interesting thing was there was an 1 1/2" difference between backing plates, mine being the narrowest. Seems like the 77 was the widest.

chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2019, 12:51:12 PM »
That clears it up, Your experiences go along with what I haven't seen in the shops.
Thanks

HarleyJack17

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 12:17:24 PM »
Chris,

Yeah you touched on something and sparked my memory....not talking overall axle width end to end...but Highboys(F250 4x4) had a narrower frame than 4x2 trucks. Now what Ford did to "fit" the axle I am not sure....when measuring be sure to look at perch to backing plate and perch to carrier housing...Like I said, the final housing I had the perches were spaced to wide so I had to cut them and weld new ones in the proper place.  I was told the axle was out of a '79.

It is easier for Ford to move perches than use completely different housings. Again, what I know applies to late 60's to mid-1970's Highboys since there was little variation in the frames and suspension if any.  Mainly the body and wiring changed for those trucks.

Hope it helps. Fordification has some good info on it just an fyi.

chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2019, 08:52:08 PM »
Chris,

Yeah you touched on something and sparked my memory....not talking overall axle width end to end...but Highboys(F250 4x4) had a narrower frame than 4x2 trucks. Now what Ford did to "fit" the axle I am not sure....when measuring be sure to look at perch to backing plate and perch to carrier housing...Like I said, the final housing I had the perches were spaced to wide so I had to cut them and weld new ones in the proper place.  I was told the axle was out of a '79.

It is easier for Ford to move perches than use completely different housings. Again, what I know applies to late 60's to mid-1970's Highboys since there was little variation in the frames and suspension if any.  Mainly the body and wiring changed for those trucks.

Hope it helps. Fordification has some good info on it just an fyi.
I do not recall the distance between the 65 perchs but it is the same as the Highboy I looked at. In 1973 Ford did widen there 2 wheel drive pick-up frames by 3". I was going to wait and do the axle, Browne and Clark all at one time but this thread put me at ease about running the 60 as is. Unless I find something wrong with the Clark I would like to have everything installed by May.

TomP

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 07:12:23 PM »
My 53 truck has a 1960's Dana 70 and it's the coarse 23 spline. Those are adaptable to the 60 by using the 23 spline side gears. The Powerlock i'm using was 35 spline and I swapped the side gears to a guy with ones out of a car Dana 60, Hemi's used coarse spline in 66. They must have kept the same spiders on 60's and 70's. The duallies like mine (79 and earlier chassis) don't use a wider rear end like the 80 and up. Not sure if the axle length is the same but must be close.

I have had no trouble at all with the 23 splines. Broke all the 1330 series UJoints but the axles are bulletproof despite the 6000rpm launches with dual rear wheels.

chris401

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2019, 09:35:54 PM »
My 53 truck has a 1960's Dana 70 and it's the coarse 23 spline. Those are adaptable to the 60 by using the 23 spline side gears. The Powerlock i'm using was 35 spline and I swapped the side gears to a guy with ones out of a car Dana 60, Hemi's used coarse spline in 66. They must have kept the same spiders on 60's and 70's. The duallies like mine (79 and earlier chassis) don't use a wider rear end like the 80 and up. Not sure if the axle length is the same but must be close.

I have had no trouble at all with the 23 splines. Broke all the 1330 series UJoints but the axles are bulletproof despite the 6000rpm launches with dual rear wheels.
If I understand correctly your saying a 70 locker will fit in my 60 housing? I belive the pinion offset in mine is 1 5/8".

If the 1 ton and 4X4 trucks up through 79 kept the narrow frame that opens up more possibilities.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 09:39:08 PM by chris401 »

JamesonRacing

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2019, 07:59:56 AM »
I have a 3.54 geared Dana 60 in my 66 F250.  I have a Blair Patrick high torque 445 in front, T19 transmission.  I have towed my 7500 lb race trailer with it and have never had a rear axle problem.
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TomP

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Re: High Torque FE/MEL In Front Of A 16 Spline Dana 60
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2019, 08:45:59 PM »
I doubt the 70 carrier is the same (may be) but the side gears are.
 Ford or perhaps Dana/Spicer changed to fine spline around 1970 or so. The 16 went to 30 splines and the 23 went to 35 splines.

All Dana 70's had the big axles, but few 60's did, just the Hemi cars and front ends. That's why using 70 side gears.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 08:48:44 PM by TomP »