7.3L gasser now official

[chilly460]

Saw a news clip that the 7.3L gas engine is now official for super duty trucks.  No hp/tq figures were given so not much value there.  I think it’s a good move, think plenty of guys want a 3/4 ton for towing but pause at the expense and complexity of the newer diesels.

Thinking out loud, one would think it’d have to be a decent step up from the Ecoboost to make it a differentiator, interesting to see what they come up with. 

[Katz427]

Interesting, it is a pushrod valve train. Ford does not release power numbers until they start producing actual production engines. This policy was instituted after the 1999 cobra, production engine intake manifold, and compression were off from spec. Interesting what bore/stroke ?

[TomP]

Looking at the video it appears the bore is maybe 4 1/8" or so and 445 cubes so stroke ought to be around 4"
Looks like a lot of potential for a race engine. Those valvesprings look 3" high.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FtNlfAbc2w

[BattlestarGalactic]

Wow, from all the "Hi tech" stuff.............back to the good old pushrod motor with fuel injectors.  Hmmmm.   He kept repeating about packaging size and how a pushrod motor is so much thinner and fits better in any engine compartment.  Well, duh.  Six bolt main caps?  Nice.  Roller lifter and roller rockers.  Nice.  Piston oil coolers?   Nice, it's like they have it set up for boost application??   Look how short that piston is! 

[FrozenMerc]

Interesting.  It is like we stepped back 25 yrs and updated the 460....  Old school engine tech with high end electronic controls.  Guessing it should be around 500 to 600 ft-lbs, hopefully with a nice flat torque curve.

[jayb]

Looks more like an updated FE to me, that's an inline valve setup.  Extended skirt block, cross-bolted mains, etc.  That exhaust port looks like the port on my new cylinder heads...

[chilly460]

Just doing a quick and dirty projection based on the 6.2L, this could be a 450hp/500lbft combo.  I saw a road test with a 2wd F250 that ran 14.6 with the 6.2L.  7.3 should scoot along pretty well

[cjshaker]

Of course chevy guys will be screaming LS..lol
That piston IS short! Guessing the super valve spring is for bigger lift without stressing them out, but there sure isn't much guide there. And not sure what that thing is on top of the lifter, maybe just something to take up space and keep the pushrod shorter? Oil squirters were used on the 5.0 when they started pushing them harder. Looks like chain drive oil pump.

Now, if they could just make the truck so you don't have to pull the damn cab to work on it. Not that it matters, it'll still be a $50k-$60k-$80k truck, so I won't be able to afford one.

[RustyCrankshaft]

Of course chevy guys will be screaming LS..lol
That piston IS short! Guessing the super valve spring is for bigger lift without stressing them out, but there sure isn't much guide there. And not sure what that thing is on top of the lifter, maybe just something to take up space and keep the pushrod shorter? Oil squirters were used on the 5.0 when they started pushing them harder. Looks like chain drive oil pump.

Now, if they could just make the truck so you don't have to pull the damn cab to work on it. Not that it matters, it'll still be a $50k-$60k-$80k truck, so I won't be able to afford one.

GM and Dodge both make their trucks so you don't pull the cab to work on them...much rather pull the cab on a Ford. By myself it takes about an hour and 20 minutes. With 2 of us about 45 minutes taking our time. Of course that is dealing with the diesel offerings from those 3. Ever try changing a VGT Duramax turbo? Can have the cab and heads off a 6.0 or 6.4 PowerStroke in about the same amount of time without the bruised ribs or hoodlatch stuck in your junk!

I do get the point, but as long as they keep the cabforward designs it'll never be real easy to work on something when half of it is under the dash. Probably why I decided to use a SuperDuty frame to put my 77 crewcab body on and a properly built diesel (the regular cabs all kept their FE's).

I thought Ford was misguided from going away from a pushrod V8 in the trucks in the first place. I would have liked to see them update the architecture and just make a modern version of what they were using. It worked for GM, and Fiatslyer.

[RustyCrankshaft]

OAnd not sure what that thing is on top of the lifter, maybe just something to take up space and keep the pushrod shorter?

Those appear to be the lifter retainers, similar to what LS/LT engines use and some smaller V block diesels.

[NIsaacs]

Just doing a quick and dirty projection based on the 6.2L, this could be a 450hp/500lbft combo.  I saw a road test with a 2wd F250 that ran 14.6 with the 6.2L.  7.3 should scoot along pretty well

Probably will be more than one rating. Pretty sure it will be de-tuned when it goes in the 650-750 trucks.

[GJCAT427]

I gotta agree with Jay, Looks like they took the best of the FE and incorped the newest diesel materials for reliabity.  The headers look some what like the FE cast shorty.

[GJCAT427]

Ah Jay, when are you going to make valve covers for this New Big block?!!!

[Barry_R]

I thought Ford was misguided from going away from a pushrod V8 in the trucks in the first place. I would have liked to see them update the architecture and just make a modern version of what they were using. It worked for GM, and Fiatslyer.

I think they have (finally) admitted that the OHC deal was overplayed for truck applications where high RPM under continuous load was not the right way to go.  The 6.2 was not a solid viable choice for a truck that needed to tow any kind of load with comfort and confidence.  And the 6.7 diesel - although easily capable - comes with a huge cost penalty - like 15% of the truck's overall price.  With gas being way cheaper than diesel these day, the payback on the over the top oil burner has stretched into infinity for fleet owners.  I'd wager the new gasser makes up 60% of SD truck sales volume within a year of its release.

[cjshaker]

GM and Dodge both make their trucks so you don't pull the cab to work on them...much rather pull the cab on a Ford. By myself it takes about an hour and 20 minutes. With 2 of us about 45 minutes taking our time. Of course that is dealing with the diesel offerings from those 3. Ever try changing a VGT Duramax turbo? Can have the cab and heads off a 6.0 or 6.4 PowerStroke in about the same amount of time without the bruised ribs or hoodlatch stuck in your junk!

Easy to say when you've got a lift sitting in your garage, and all the equipment required to lift a cab off of a frame. But I guess if you can afford the truck, you can afford a lift.

[Katz427]

The engineer did say it was longer than the 6.2 , larger bore spacing, for more cooling jacket. I like it, but trucks are out of my range at the prices they are asking.  I agree that OHC for a truck really isn't necessary, though I do like the 6.2 in the shop F250.  The shop has a lot of Hemis for cores as they have a habit of spinning rod bearings, and cam bearings. I have developed an ear for the "Hemi tic" as they call it.

[e philpott]

Designed to run 14.7 AFR under load . That’s interesting by itself

[mbrunson427]

First thing I think of is doing a 7.3L swap. Or even wondering if Ford will consider making this as a crate. Not sure if it's rumor or fact, but I saw a video claiming 107mm bore and 101mm stroke. If you convert it, it's very similar to 427 bore with a 428 crank.

If Holley would make this intake for it:
https://www.holley.com/products/intakes/efi_manifolds/parts/300-126

Then you could get a different cam and it'd be a hot rodders delight. We wouldn't have to see so many LS's in fox bodies.

[Falcon67]

Like it, need it for what we pull.  Now I just need $60,000 or so.  Yea, drop that and a 10 speed in the old 1993 F-350 would be cool. 

[HarleyJack17]

I just hope they don't go back to blowing spark plugs out of the heads, or heads warping like the Triton family of engines, or 6.0 injectors failing, heads warping, etc..  Maybe they got some smarter engineers....time will tell.  Someone must be paying attention since they are moving back to push rod engines......when your competition starts making you look bad you better change something.  They all have issues but for what they cost, they should not.

[chilly460]

Will be very interesting to see how this plays out.  I briefly looked at F250s when I bought my F150, they're really not that bad if you stick with a gas XL model and don't get into the leather interiors and such.  That said, try finding one on a lot, still all diesels so Ford will have to convince the public that the 7.3L is a viable towing alternative.  I'll be looking to trade out trucks in a couple years, I'd love to get into a nice Supercab 4x4 XL with the 7.3L for under $40k, I'm sure it can be done around year end if you find a leftover. 

[Falcon67]

or 6.0 injectors failing, heads warping, etc..

I've read up a lot on the 6.0s and I'll wager that a large percentage of the issues are caused by sloppy maintenance/neglect and people that think they have to slap a tuner on everything.  Tuner on 6.0 pretty much seems to guarantee head issues because the factory studs were not designed to take any increased cylinder pressure.  Marginal design criteria - I'll go with that as a yes because the universal fix is ARP studs LOL.  The injectors are controlled using oil pressure so the least contamination of the oil by missing change intervals or cheaping out on oil/filters can kill 6.0 injectors.  Further reading shows that just replacing the base injector doesn't replace the oil control portion so the problem returns quick. 

[RustyCrankshaft]

I think they have (finally) admitted that the OHC deal was overplayed for truck applications where high RPM under continuous load was not the right way to go.  The 6.2 was not a solid viable choice for a truck that needed to tow any kind of load with comfort and confidence.  And the 6.7 diesel - although easily capable - comes with a huge cost penalty - like 15% of the truck's overall price.  With gas being way cheaper than diesel these day, the payback on the over the top oil burner has stretched into infinity for fleet owners.  I'd wager the new gasser makes up 60% of SD truck sales volume within a year of its release.
[/quote]

Easy to say when you've got a lift sitting in your garage, and all the equipment required to lift a cab off of a frame. But I guess if you can afford the truck, you can afford a lift.

I agree, the OHC deal for an actual work truck is not an ideal solution and I still maintain that modernizing the 385 platform in 97 would have been better money spent than trying to make a truck version of the mod motor which never really worked all that well in the real world. I know a lot of the mod motor push into trucks stemmed from other reasons, like CAFE, et al, but they should have never dropped some type of larger displacement pushrod engine for the heavy duty gas option. With the price of diesel combined with the in-service costs of modern diesels (DOC/DPF and doser issues really add up, especially in fleet situations) and a good larger displacement gas engine is bound to take some market share. A number of my customers have had me go through older rigs the past couple years rather than buying new just for the reliability and maintenance costs.

A lift does make it easier, but to be fair, the first 6.0 head gasket job I did was in the driveway on a weekend with 4x4's and HiLift jacks. I have owned some 6.0 and 6.4 trucks, but they technically belonged to the company when I was still doing dirt work, but most of the 6.0's and 6.4's I've done were just customers trucks.

Personally I disagree that 6.0's were terrible engines and that the heads/bolts were not up to the task. While I'm sure 6 bolts per cylinder would have been a vast improvement, the issue really wasn't the bolts or the heads, it was EGR. Most of the 6.0's reputation was due to the 6.0 (like all of Fords pickup diesels) being the first to market with new technology. The 6.0 was the first diesel in a pickup to use a VGT and EGR on a production "medium" duty engine. The head gasket failures in most cases were due to the EGR system. When the EGR valve sticks, and they all did, that woudl cause the coolant to boil in the EGR cooler which is plumbed in series with the heads and oil cooler. You send a steady diet of 300*f coolant and steam into a head and I don't care how many bolts you have it'll warp eventually. The stock long block with a coolant filter (left over casting sand and fallout from the coolant tends to plug the oil coolers) and an EGR delete is good to 450 wheel HP and will live a LONG time with basic maintenance. Over 450 and you need to start upgrading hard parts. My basic parts list for a work truck 6.0 was EGR delete, coolant filter, new head gaskets with new stock bolts exhaust and tunes from Jody at DP-Tuner with a daily driver/economy file, tow tune and mild "race" file. I've done probably 30 or 40 that way and around 22 of those are still with the same owners and I know of 1 failed head gasket of those.

The 03's did have legit injector failures. So did the early 7.3's for that matter. Some revised parts essentially solved that problem in both cases. The 6.0 injectors are prone to bending the spool valves if you run 15w40 in very cold weather. Most HEUI injector or pump failures are due to lack of maintenance. I will say, given my choice, I like to use early 6.0 rails and branch tubes with the later style pump. The early rails had very few issues unlike the later W rails which tended to leak. The early aluminum body pumps were more prone to failure than the later style iron pumps.

[BigBlueIron]

That exhaust port looks like the port on my new cylinder heads...

That is the first thing that crossed my mind too Jay. I was beginning to wonder if you had a hand in in development of the new 7.3! 

[Falcon67]

Agree also on the 6.0 - EGR.  Seems the delete is the thing to do if you buy one.  Assuming someone hasn't already done it LOL.  Agree on the other comments because I hear it from guys we race with that field and service diesel trucks.  I'd much rather go gas than diesel if at all possible.  On our budget that may end up being a stroker 460, but what the hey if it works!

[babybolt]

More info:

https://www.svtperformance.com/threads/fords-450hp-7-3l-godzilla-v8-inside-info-spy-pics-wheres-the-direct-injection.1170924/?fbclid=IwAR3_xw2LBqo0WdGyKdgH9CNPeqhHyZ2_KzK7lKE8AKEaqD4hoSCNSDFrn0o

[AlanCasida]

Please tell me they are not really going to call it "Godzilla". 

[Heo]

Interesting engine, I remember in the late 70s
when the V8s extinction was said to be a few
years away. Thank god they where dead wrong.
Looks like the oilpump is up front wounder if
it fit in a Galaxie with a front sump?
The exhaust manifolds looks like taken from a
-30s racing engine
Just a shame all modern engines are so ugly
with all the outside ribbing and bumps and
crannies that make it a pain to keep it clean

[FElony]

Please tell me they are not really going to call it "Godzilla". 

NEWSFLASH! NEWSFLASH! TOKYO UNDER ATTACK!

We now join CCN news correspondent Lon Demon:
LD: "Hi fellas! Howths my little stud muffins out there tonight? Getting ready to raise some naughty heck necths week for Valentino'th day?"
STATION MANAGER: "Good lord, Lon! The headline!!"
LD: "Oh right. Well anyway, our athociate in Tokay-OH called and thaid thomething about thomething approaching Japan. I just cannot for the life of me understand the Asian bois when they get excthited. I guess we'll just thwitch over there. Take it away, Taki!
Sensei Takahashi: Thank you, Ron. Airport towers see huge device coming to Tokyo Harbor at very fast speed. Experts say, looks like come from Yankee shoreline. Wait! Experts now say... IT'S GODZIRRA! NOT AGAIN! Rast Godzirra ruin Tokyo for years. Oh NO, changing course to Fukushima! Run for your rives!

bzzzzz snap bzzzzz crackle bzzzzz pop bzzzzz

LD: "Well, back in "Yankee" land. I mean, who stills calls us Yankees? Really? Hey, don't forget to buy some choc-lits for your fave rump ranger next week."
STATION MANAGER: "Oh fer cryin out loud. That's it, I quit"

This is CNN. The most trusted name in news.




Couldn't help myself. I'm weak. Apologies to Japan. Japan only. Send hate mail through PM.

[FElony]

Look how the valve springs have the bottom four coils stacked. Could this design effectively shorten the overall spring for low-lift grunt cams, but allow a swap later for higher lift revver cams?

[e philpott]

This 7.3 is going to make 450 to 500 horsepower at 14.7 to 1 air fuel ratio is what we should be talking about !!

That basically means the "programmer companies " will be able extract probably close to 100 more horse power just by a A/F and timing adjustment !!

[FElony]

This 7.3 is going to make 450 to 500 horsepower at 14.7 to 1 air fuel ratio is what we should be talking about !!

So there are aspects of this engine that are forbidden to talk about? I'm surprised to hear such a statement from you. Pegged to the left?

[runthatjunk]

Variable displacement oil pump, sounds like yet another recipe for disaster

[Rory428]

I have to think the bad rap that the Ford V10 and 6.0 Diesel engines get is overblown. My 99 F350 V10 5 speed is 20 years old now, and runs great, smooth as silk, no signs of any leaks, and has had the spark plugs replaced twice with no issues. I have only owned the truck for 6 years, but the original owner is a friend who factory ordered it, and gave me all the receipts for service when I bought it.
And DalePs F350 has a 6.0L , which he bought new, and has had no engine problems that I can think of. He did have , I believe, a sensor or module go bad last year, but the actual engine is still running fine. I believe it still has the functional EGR setup. Neither of us have felt the need to modify our trucks, which can`t hurt the reliability.This new 7.3 gas engine looks really good, hope Ford sells a ton of them. If I decided to buy a new truck, this would certainly be the engine I would consider. I hope that 10 speed automatic is up to the task!

[HarleyJack17]

I have to think the bad rap that the Ford V10 and 6.0 Diesel engines get is overblown

It is not too overblown.  Don't get me wrong, I am certain there are plenty out there that have been fine. However, there are just as many that have not.  I sold them for a while, and have to say that early 6.0 diesels were issue prone.
I own a V10 Super Duty. I have to say I am very displeased with it.  Very Very light use, all regular maintenance done.  It may have towed 5,000 lbs. or more like 5 times. Otherwise empty or pulling a small boat.
The truck is an '03 and was my first and only new vehicle that I have ever purchased.  By 80k the head warped on one side.  Truck never got hot, never had any issue. It just started leaking oil one day....thought it was a head gasket, $2,100 later it was fixed(both sides).
I had thought at the time the spark plug issue was addressed on the later Tritons. Found out a month ago it wasn't when it blew one out at 5a.m. as I was headed duck hunting.  Truck has 104K on it now.  Add to that, at 90K miles I rebuilt the entire front end. Every ball joint, tie rod, and hub shot.  The cost to up grade to replaceable parts was not much more than new Ford parts so I opted to spend the coin and covert the hubs/spindles to old school vs. the unit bearing.  The plug blowing out was the final straw. I could have had the inserts done when it was down for the head work and saved money, time but misinformation and lack of follow up by Ford left me in the dark.

We all have different experiences but that truck has been the worst ride I have owned yet.  I know of two other Tritons personally that the heads warped at around 100K.  And several Super Duties that the front ends were shot by 75-80K.

Ford knows all about the head and spark plug issues and chose not to do squat....that is where I have the rub.
They had a massive selection of bad bolts that stretched letting the heads warp, and three or four threads to hold a spark plug in....come on.

Nothing lasts forever, and they all have issues but it rubs me wrong to see dozens of the Chevy LS trucks rolling 160K and had 0 problems.

Rant over

[Rory428]

Well, my experience is very different. My V10 is a 1999, currently showing 136000 miles. It has been well maintained, and has zero leaks, zero spark plug issues, and concerning the front suspension & steering, the only thing I have replaced, was 1 outer tie rod. (the original has no grease nipple, the MOOG replacement does).Most of the miles have been while towing a race car in an enclosed trailer, my current trailer weighs about 9000 pounds loaded. It also still has all the factory installed exhaust system, original clutch, and even the original front and rear brakes, with about 50% left on the pads. The fuel pump and all 10 coils were replaced at 125,000 miles, strictly as preventative maintainance, the originals never had any issues. Just replaced all 6 tires last year, which is the 3rd set, counting the factory installed tires. No complaints  here concerning this truck. And if "the planets align" I will be using this truck to haul my Fairmont to the 2019 FE Reunion, 3000 miles each way.

[Katz427]

I think most 4wheel drive vehicles have parts replacement before 100k we have had a couple Ram's before 50k. The problem with the spark plugs should have been covered. However we had a couple of oil burning LS 4.8 and 5.3 that GM said they all do that. There was a lawsuit but nothing came of it. Just the way it works, today. IMO

[Barry_R]

I had a 2000 Excursion.  Acquired from a Ford supplier retiree in 2001 with 8000 miles on it.  Used it until 2017 as my daily driver all year round.  When I finally sold it I had roughly 200,000 miles on it.  Over that time I replaced brakes(several times), front end wear items including outer bearings and u-joints, filters, batteries (a couple) and alternators.  I swapped out for better shocks and a "performance" exhaust.  Put in a set of plugs at 150,000 miles 'cuz I felt guilty, and a set of coils when it started acting up after a heavy rain.  Never had the valve covers off, never spat a plug, never broke anything in the trans or engine. 

Replaced it because I was getting nervous about several symptoms of impending future issues (delayed cold engagement on trans, piston slap that went away when warmed up).  Body had significant structural rust from a life spent on well salted Michigan roads that made large powertrain investments unwise.

[RustyCrankshaft]

A guy I worked with on a lot of dirt jobs had 2 V10 super duty's, a 99 and an 01 I think. The 99 blew a plug at about 35k, Ford fixed it under warranty. Truck had 340k on it when he retired last year, still ran great but was starting to use a little oil and pistons were getting a little rattely when it was cold. The 01 had 260k and still ran fan but he wanted to keep that truck into retirement so I put a V10 cratemotor in it for him in trade for 2 of his shop trucks.

I briefly owned a early 99 with a V10 in it I bought from a family member. I had to put ball joints in it and I did the dynatrack conversion to get rid of the unit bearings. Had 160k when I bought it, blew a plug at 167k which I fixed that 1 and put all new plugs in. Sold it at 225k, still ran fine.

The ball joints and hub deal, well everyone has that issue on the modern trucks. I think it was a mistake going away from kingpin front axles on the 4x4's. The Ford's are much better than the Chevy and Dodge 4x4 front ends in my experience. I had a 98 Dodge 12v cabchassis as one of my shop trucks, using it the same way the 95 PowerStroke got used with the same 5 guys driving it the Dodge went thru front brakes once a month, the PowerStroke went 6-7 months. The dodge needed ball joints, unit bearings, center axle disconnects, so and so forth, a constant stream of parts. Only thing that truck never had issues with was the Cummins.

There's always the chance you end up with a Friday truck, but overall I think the V10 trucks have been decent (at work we still have 25 or 30 of them in service and they have held up well). I just think a pushrod bigblock is a better choice!

[chilly460]

Numbers have been published

http://www.mustangandfords.com/features/1908-ford-godzilla-73-liter/

[RustyCrankshaft]

Hopefully it is actually swap friendly. At 430 hp at 14.7 it wouldn't take much but a little more fuel and some boost and it would be pretty mean right out of the box. Be interesting to see what the heads flow, see how far one might be able to go with it NA.

[Joey120373]

Ok y’all, get the flame throwers out...

Just gonna say it, that thing looks for all the world like the ford Enginier’s said F-it, let’s just build a bigger LS.
The block, mains, rocker arms, coils, roller lifter guides ..... all look to me like a loose to almost exact copy of what you would see in an LS.
Of course, I know full well the LS uses some design cues of the FE.

Not that a similar design to the LS is a bad thing. No idea what the ports in the heads look like, but what I saw of the exhaust sure looked good.

Weather they did it on purpose of if it was truly a clean sheet design that just happens to share all kinds of LS looking stuff, I think it’s great. Looks to me like a solid base to start hot rodding, and I’m hoping it will beat Chevy all to bits. It would be great if, one day, the magazines and internet all find out quickly that all you need for a 600-700hp pump gas street engine is to throw a cam and headers at the new ford 7.3.

[Falcon67]

That's OK, don't care.  It has to be better than the $10,000 upcharge for a diesel and there isn't any diesel bullpoop that goes with a modern unit - Blue Def, regen, low sulfer, etc, etc, etc.   And a billion dollars to extend the warranty to cover $10,000 part failures.  I'll buy one if I can afford it.  Build and price doesn't show it yet.   But I doubt I can afford one. 

[chilly460]

I was looking at diesels but once you dig into the issues with EGR and regen, it scares a guy off unless he really NEEDS a diesel to tow.  Add in the cost difference and it’s tough to justify for a guy like me towing an open trailer a few times a year.  That said, the 7.3 finally fills a gap and provides what should be a gas motor that can lug a heavy F250 and trailer with plenty of power. 

[Katz427]

For me, I see some racing engine block design , like the 9 cam bearings. I am sure even some  thinking on the coolant flow from the Fr9 NASCAR engine. Looks to be a well designed piece. I am sure someone at Roush has played with it already. The real trick "to me" is running at stoichiometric  a/f ratio. If it turns out to be reasonably fuel efficient, while hauling, it should be a viable alternative to diesel for many truck owners.

[c-reed]

I'd like to see a twin turbo 7.3 ecoboost although it would never happen. Talk about torque!!

[Joey120373]

Twin turbos on that thing would be a monster for sure, but your right, no way they would do that from the factory.

[Falcon67]

I pull 11,000~11,500 twice a month and would do more for more mile, but I really have no want for a $60,000 diesel.  Even used 90K mile F-350 DRWs are 45K+ around here. 

[e philpott]

Ok y’all, get the flame throwers out...

Just gonna say it, that thing looks for all the world like the ford Enginier’s said F-it, let’s just build a bigger LS.
The block, mains, rocker arms, coils, roller lifter guides ..... all look to me like a loose to almost exact copy of what you would see in an LS.
Of course, I know full well the LS uses some design cues of the FE.

The LS to me looks like a FE bottom end with a Windsor top end , especially the early LS's , late LS they threw on a Yates Nascar head ( pre FR9 ) on top of the FE block