Author Topic: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves  (Read 4455 times)

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happystang

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428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« on: January 11, 2019, 11:58:53 PM »
Okay, for the sake of my sanity, are these hot oil pressure readings normal for a fresh rebuild? I have maybe 200 miles on the motor, I'm using Valvoline 10w40 conventional with a Seal Power standard flow/volume oil pump. The idle is the concern, I feel that 18 PSI is fairly low for a fresh motor? I've read this is normal for FE engines? The block has had the oil pump area enlarged, the rockers are brand new Harland Sharps, using the CJ oil filter adapter, Edelbrock heads with no restrictors, Canton road race pan w/windage tray.


18 PSI @ 750 rpm
50 PSI @ 2000 rpm
55 PSI @ 3000 rpm

Thank you all again for all the help!!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:02:16 AM by happystang »

440sixpack

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2019, 01:14:25 AM »
I'm no FE expert but I just got my fresh 428 going a week ago , with a stock output Melling pump and my hot idle pressure is  about 25.   so not a huge difference I don't think I'd be very concerned. 

Are you confident your gauge is accurate ?

Gettinther

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2019, 10:59:46 AM »
Almost Identical to my 390
04 F150 Lariat 4x4 extended cab
65 Galaxie 500XL 390 4gear
56 Fairlane 4DR.  223 3speed
92 F150 XLT 460 auto carbed
75 Nova SS hatchback 350 4gear

Barry_R

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2019, 11:00:44 AM »
Low side of normal, but probably within the variable range of the gauge.  Normal.  Stick a couple .070ish restrictors in the heads and it will gain +/-5 psi at idle if it really bothers you (which it shouldn't...).

67428GT500

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 11:44:29 AM »
My 428 in my Shelby has the oil feed and gallery modifications. The #70 Holley jet restrictors for the rocker arms. I run about 75 cold idle. Hot idle is about 35.
Hot cruise is about 40-65.
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427Fastback

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 01:49:37 PM »
My 427 with a Ford CJ pump and .090 restricters idled at 14psi,45-50 psi going down the road....Never caused me any loss of sleep....
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

My427stang

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 05:21:52 PM »
Plenty of oil pressure to stay alive, but I always like to understand why

Easy to start with a standard oil pump, with anything but standard clearances, you will already start lower.  The short gears of a std pump put out less at idle than an HV pump

- What are your bearing clearances?  .002-.0025 is good, but also will bleed idle oil pressure compared to the .001 or less minimums for factory FEs, a race build gets looser, bleeds more oil
- Did the builder replace cam bushings?  Did they cut the new bushings because the cam wouldn't turn? It works, and effective if the guy is sharp,  but in some cases a bearing will get deformed and just cutting can have clearance on the loose side and bleed oil like any other bearing.  I try to avoid it
- Do you have new rocker shafts?  New rockers with old shafts can bleed pressure, if roller bearing shafts, can bleed pressure too
- Did you verify with another gauge?  I have a real nice Snap-on master gauge set and it will make a believe out of you compared to a 1/8 plastic line to a small gauge in both responsiveness and accuracy.  Unfortunately the info can make you feel good or worse sometimes LOL

In the end, the numbers you show are fine, but if you don't like it and the oil stays clean, engine stays quiet... restrict a little to the rockers (but don't go crazy they need oil too), try different weights of oil, brands and filters, or throw a high volume pump in at some point if you aren't happy

BTW, an HV oil pump really only adds more oil up to relief spring pressure. After that it just dumps more oil past the bypass.  In other words, if you used the bigger HV casting and gears with a STD volume relief, it'd make the same maximum oil pressure but more at idle. 
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

fryedaddy

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 06:26:03 PM »
i had 80 at startup and 50-60 hot on my fresh 428 with stock rockers.i changed to harland sharps and now its 60 ish cold and 30-40 hot and it used to go over 80 at startup but now it might go to 65 for a minute till it starts going down.the tolerances on the hs rockers are different than stock. it defiantly made me lose 10-20.i put my stock rockers back on for fun and it went straight to 80.makes me wonder which rockers i should use.stock rockers with great pressure or my hs roller rockers with ok pressure.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

happystang

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 06:34:38 PM »
Welp, bad news. Sounds like there's some rod knock.

Not sure how this could have happened, I think I did everything by the book on my end, there's maybe 200 miles on the motor, used a Motorcraft or Wix filter for oil changes.

Primed the oil system before the first start up
Used the recommended oil and a bottle of ZDDP for start up (Valvoline 10w30) *it's a roller cam*
Changed the oil/filter after 100 miles to Valvoline 10w40
Coolant temps NEVER went past 185*

Oil pump inlet in block enlarged
Canton 8 qt capacity oil pan w/windage tray and matching pickup
Standard volume/pressure oil pump
Beefy oil pump driveshaft
Edelbrock heads
CJ oil filter adapter
New Harland Sharp rockers/shafts
Clevite bearings

The knocking started this morning when driving home on the freeway from a cars and coffee event, the hot idle oil pressure was down to 14 PSI. Going to call the machine shop on Monday and see what they say, they assembled the rotating assembly and did all the measuring for clearances. I'm going to drain the oil later today and see what it looks like, as of now I don't really want to look at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40LtnjhDD3g

fryedaddy

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2019, 07:16:01 PM »
i would look under valve covers first.maybe loose rocker stud or adjuster.also i had a noise like that one time,turned out to be a hole in the headers,they touched in a tight spot near the motor supports vibrated till it made a hole in the pipe
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:13:49 PM by fryedaddy »
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

FB

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2019, 07:52:19 PM »
i agree, i have the same VC's and had to clearance a bit of the inside of the VC to keep a rocker from hitting, it made the same noise
Fred

C6AE

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 12:16:48 PM »
I would want to learn where the oil holes for the cam bearings were aligned.

shady

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 12:24:42 PM »
sounds serious to me.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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67428GT500

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 02:03:24 PM »
I know this would be a rookie mistake for most, but is oil gallery plug in place inside the distributor opening?  I think over the years we've seen several that have been over-looked by those less than knowledgeable on the FE that caused low oil pressure, especially at lower rpm. If so, and you didn't build the bottom end your shop owns the issue.

                                                                                                                      -Keith

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 01:15:44 PM »
Ditto on the galley plug behind distributor hole.   Did that once!!  Wondered why I couldn't prime it up very well.   Pulled front cover and saw the oil gushing out.  Oops.

The weird thing was that the 427 in that Willys I worked on was missing TWO valley plugs(front and rear) and ran/survived without issue til we determined something was wrong.  Never hurt a thing even though all the oil was getting pump into the valley.  Crazy.
Larry

cjshaker

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2019, 01:56:18 PM »
The weird thing was that the 427 in that Willys I worked on was missing TWO valley plugs(front and rear) and ran/survived without issue til we determined something was wrong.  Never hurt a thing even though all the oil was getting pump into the valley.  Crazy.

If it was a sideoiler block, I could understand why. If a top oiler, I'm amazed it didn't eat up the bearings.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 02:29:14 PM »
Sorry to hear that happystang. I have about 22 at idle hot 55-60 cruise and 80 cold. Love my FE but they could be finicky. I really hope its nothing to serious. I wouldnt run it much anymore till you do alittle exploration.

67428GT500

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2019, 06:43:46 PM »
I feel your pain. 176 miles and had a thin wall rear it's ugly head and coolant in the oil. I had to pull an engine out of the vehicle trying not to damage a 15,000 paint job. #6 had to be sleeved.  I cut no corners and even spent the money to have it ran and tuned on a dyno.  I hope it doesn't turn out to be a rod, but that sound certainly makes me think it's a rod.
                                                                             -Keith

cammerfe

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2019, 11:48:16 PM »
Please note that a bit more idle speed can do wonders for 'idle' pressure. I've never been bothered by an idle speed of about 1000 RPMs.   
 I starts to annoy me at about 1100. (Come to think of it, I've never had an FE with any less of a cam than a 'Double A'.) I believe that idled at about 850. Try bumping yours up a bit and see if you feel a bit of relief.

KS

67428GT500

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Re: 428 oil pressure- calm my nerves
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2019, 03:07:35 PM »
I truly feel for you. I went though a having to pull my engine last month with 176 miles. I had less than two weeks to get it pulled, machined, reassembled and back in to beat open heart surgery. Let us know what you found to be the culprit.

                                                                                                                  -Keith