Author Topic: FE Intake Adapter  (Read 328298 times)

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427Fastback

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #225 on: July 08, 2013, 10:49:41 PM »
I maybe reading the pics wrong......What ports have you cnc'd in the manifold....The 351 RPM or the torker...

As you have everything there to view I will just ask.....What port will match up better with lower manifold ...2V or 4V....
I am using edelbrock heads with stock sized ports....
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:55:52 PM by 427Fastback »
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #226 on: July 09, 2013, 07:16:41 AM »
The manifold is machined for the 351C 4V port, not the 2V port.  So the Torker, Weiand tunnel ram, and other 4V manifolds will be pretty close.  The ports in the 351C 2V manifolds will be smaller than the ports machined into the intake adapter.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

427Fastback

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #227 on: July 09, 2013, 11:55:26 AM »
Thanks.....that's what I needed to know......Cory
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

fe66comet

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #228 on: July 09, 2013, 06:39:59 PM »
I will need all the help I can get as I am loosing shop space and a place to work on things for now. Until I can arrange a place to rent everything is getting stored in a semi trailer. I am moving into an apartment so I am going to have to find a garage to rent when I move. I had a hard enough time convincing the building manager to let my dog in, I do not think big block Fords are.on the guest list LOL. Basically that means I will have to farm out operations that normally I would do myself bit I still have.my tools just no place to use them so Jay will get all the parts for dialing it in. He would know better how it all goes anyhow and a Trick Flow EFI intake is not a cheap  part if you   manage to screw it up.....Jon

Ford428CJ

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #229 on: July 11, 2013, 05:34:54 PM »
That looks amazing Jay! I may not need my Dove Tunnel Ram after seeing this! LOL I can see another advantage to this as well. Look like you would be able to change out the lifters without getting coolant in your lower end. That would be nice! That 351 Tunnel Ram looks almost like the Dove with the D-shape runners in the plenum... Cool stuff!
Wes Adams FORD428CJ 
Hillside Auto- Custom Curved, Blueprinted Distributors
03 F-250 Crew Cab 4x4 6.0 and 35's
64 Falcon 428FE
55 FORD Truck 4-link Rides on air with 428FE

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #230 on: July 11, 2013, 06:52:34 PM »
That's the idea, Wes.  You should be able to swap lifters without pulling the distributor or breaking the water jacket, and you can certainly take a look in the valley of the engine without even pulling the valve covers.  And I've got a groove machined in the intake for a big O-ring, so that no sealer is required on the access cover plate.  Also FYI on my 675 HP dyno mule the PSE intake + Weiand tunnel ram made the most peak torque, average torque, and average horsepower.  It was down about 5 peak horsepower from the Dove manifold, but beat it in all other categories.  And my manifold plus the Weiand tunnel ram will be cheaper  8)
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fe66comet

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #231 on: July 11, 2013, 08:21:10 PM »
Good to hear you got it all worked out Jay, now I need to save up for the intake and adapter. Also need un-drilled water pump adapters and I will be much closer......Jon

Ford428CJ

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #232 on: July 11, 2013, 09:50:19 PM »
Very true Jay. Both are a great and unique intake to have. The Doves are just harder to find and very rare is all. Ill have to buy one of these from you Jay. Dove for the Falcon and yours for the 55 F-100.... Maybe if I ever buy a jet boat too LOL
Wes Adams FORD428CJ 
Hillside Auto- Custom Curved, Blueprinted Distributors
03 F-250 Crew Cab 4x4 6.0 and 35's
64 Falcon 428FE
55 FORD Truck 4-link Rides on air with 428FE

Richs67

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #233 on: July 12, 2013, 10:11:25 AM »
The only real question I have is when can I get one...

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #234 on: July 12, 2013, 12:49:05 PM »
Unfortunately the production date keeps shifting out because the development is taking longer than expected.  Right now my best guess is that they will go on sale in September.  Notice that this is my best "guess"... :-\
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

XR7

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #235 on: July 12, 2013, 04:13:10 PM »
Looking good Jay! As always, nice writing and pictures of your progress on this project. I really enjoy it as others do I'm sure. Really like the valley tray, sure came out nice!

Any notes or info updates on the HR version? I know that is maybe a ways in the future... I'm in no hurry, but that would be the one I am most interested in. A semi finished version.  ;)
68 Cougar XR7 GT street legal, 9.47@144.53, 3603# at the line, 487 HR center oiler, single carb, Jerico 4 speed, 10.5 tires, stock(er) suspension, all steel full interior

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #236 on: July 12, 2013, 06:18:38 PM »
Glad you like it, Thor.  I will be pulling the trigger on the tooling for the high riser / tunnel port version when I order the first production batch of manifolds, probably mid-August.  That would put prototype castings at the end of September, and it will take me a little time to get the machining programs worked out, but fortunately they will be mostly the same as for the medium riser version of the intake.  I'm thinking maybe November for that version of the intake.

Are you interested in using the HR version as a start for a sheet metal intake, or did you have something else in mind?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #237 on: July 14, 2013, 06:03:44 PM »
Things didn't go exactly as planned this weekend, with a bunch of family stuff getting in the way of my work on the intake adapter.  But I do have the second prototype machined up to the port section of the program, and decided to stop at that point for a test fit on the engine.  I ran across a couple of problems that I had to address with some additional machining software.  On the first intake I had not machined the valve cover rail wide enough, and the valve covers wouldn't quite push up far enough on the intake adapter to line up with the holes.  I had fixed that in the program for the second adapter, but then ran across another issue.  I was using Cobra Jet valve covers to test fit, and they have this little tab that helps retain the gasket in a couple of spots along the top of the valve cover rail; see the photo below:



The tab sticks below the gasket, and when I tried to bolt on the covers the tabs kept them from seating all the way on the intake.  The fix was to machine a little slot in the intake to allow clearance for this tab, as shown in the photo below:



But now I'm wondering whether I shouldn't machine that slot along the entire valve cover rail, rather than just where the tabs on the CJ valve covers are.  I kind of hate to do that because I wanted to leave as much room above each port in the casting as possible, to allow the port to be raised if necessary, but at the same time I have no idea if some of the other covers out there have these tabs, and if they are in different locations.  I wouldn't want to had someone try to bolt on a pair of valve covers and not have them seal correctly.  Right now I'm leaning towards machining the slot the whole way just to eliminate potential valve cover clearance problems.  Any comments on that?

I also ran across a problem with getting my Crower roller lifters in and out of the lifter bores with the manifold installed.  I had discovered this problem on the first manifold, and had made some changes to clear away some material under the manifold to address this issue, but first time through on the second manifold I hadn't removed enough material, so the roller lifters still could not be installed; the tie bar assembly got in the way.  I made a modification to the program and took off some more material, and finally then everything worked.  Here's a photo of the underside of the manifold, showing the stepped machined surface.  The step that took more material off the manifold is what was required to make sure that the lifters could be replaced with the manifold installed:



I tried the Crower roller lifters in all positions, and could get them into place without much trouble, so I'm satisfied at least that the Crowers can be removed and replaced with the intake adapter installed.  However, it is not clear to me that other brands of roller lifters will be able to be removed with the manifold in place; I'm going to have to do some test fitting on the manifold to find out.  I think I have a set of Comp Cams roller lifters for the FE here, and I'll give those a try.  Flat tappet lifters are no problem to remove, of course, but the roller lifters with their tie bars can have a clearance problem.

After getting the manifold installed on the test engine I also reassembled the valve train to check the pushrod hole location, and everything looks pretty good there.  Right now the pushrod holes are 5/8" diameter holes, but I was thinking about elongating them, making them oblong, to give more clearance towards the rocker arm and towards the manifold.  The downside of this is that if I did that, they would be difficult to sleeve.  With the round hole, if someone was porting one of these manifolds and broke into the pushrod hole, they could just seal it up by sleeving the hole with a thinwall 5/8" OD brass tube.  However, if I made the hole oblong, then sleeving it would be a much more difficult proposition.  There'd be lots more pushrod clearance with an oblong hole, though.  Any thoughts on the tradeoffs there?

Finally, today when I was installing the cam and lifters with the manifold in place I couldn't help but think about how much easier it would be to change cams with a two piece timing cover.  I've been thinking about this as a follow on project to this intake manifold.  At the risk of having Bob (machoneman) call me "Pro-Stock Paul" again, do you guys think I should pursue a project like that?  With the two piece timing cover you would still have to pull the valve covers and valvetrain, and distributor, to get the cam out.  You would also have to break the water jacket when you took off the water pump.  But you wouldn't have to break the intake free and reseal it, and you wouldn't have to pull the harmonic balancer to get the timing cover off, you could just pull an access plate (that would seal with an O-ring) to get at the top timing gear and cam.  Thoughts, good or bad, on this?

I keep thinking I'm almost done with this thing, but it keeps dragging on just a little longer.  Maybe next weekend...

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #238 on: July 14, 2013, 06:38:24 PM »
Pro Stock Paul 'Bob' sez......go for it! LOL
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 07:39:56 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

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FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #239 on: July 14, 2013, 07:13:16 PM »
Jay the "Mad FE Scientist" B asks his assistants "Thoughts, good or bad, on this?"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH97lImrr0Q

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