Author Topic: FE Intake Adapter  (Read 328341 times)

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cimo

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #240 on: July 14, 2013, 09:41:05 PM »
Jay - all is looking good. From my personal point of view I have 2 wishes. 1)enough meat on the top of the ports to be able to port match to B/T medium riser heads. 2) on pushrod hole location - (selfish view) my heads have wider valve spacing, so would LOVE to see the intake holes offset away from the port. realize this may not be in the best intrest of your programs - but maybe a "special" version available on request? HA!

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #241 on: July 14, 2013, 11:09:57 PM »
I would prefer a 1/2" hole elongated for pushrod holes, but that is a lot programming.  When you get to the point of selling the part, will it be possible to tailor the program a slight amount for those who want something different?  Maybe a 9/16" pushrod hole? Stock port dimensions for custom porting?  Joe-JDC.

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #242 on: July 14, 2013, 11:31:42 PM »
Moving the pushrod holes around would take some programming but I would be willing to do custom versions of the standard manifold for specific applications.  I could move the hole locations, or do a narrow pushrod hole, whatever.  I guess I'll get the basic one done with normal 5/8" pushrod holes and then do custom versions depending on what people want.

Also I'm pretty sure there is plenty of meat around the ports to match up to the Blue Thunder heads.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cjshaker

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #243 on: July 15, 2013, 09:50:04 AM »
As neat an idea as that is, especially coupled with your intake adapter, it would be so much more useful if they made upper cam gears that were adjustable like lower gears are.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #244 on: July 15, 2013, 12:23:40 PM »
Moving the pushrod holes around would take some programming but I would be willing to do custom versions of the standard manifold for specific applications.  I could move the hole locations, or do a narrow pushrod hole, whatever.  I guess I'll get the basic one done with normal 5/8" pushrod holes and then do custom versions depending on what people want.

Also I'm pretty sure there is plenty of meat around the ports to match up to the Blue Thunder heads.

Great!  I would want one of the regular ones, and at least 1 custom with narrow pushrod tubes that are elongated, and uncut ports to try to match up to a set of BT heads, and another one for custom port.  You are breaking my piggy bank!  Joe-JDC.

fe66comet

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #245 on: July 15, 2013, 03:23:36 PM »
Piggy bank LOL, my projects have me sleeping in my Comet with no seats.or floor......Jon

Barry_R

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #246 on: July 17, 2013, 09:18:50 PM »
Wait until you get a hold of a belt drive  :)

The two piece timing cover is a good idea that has been "considered" by others  :)

I really like the nice, lightweight die cast OE cover - all the aftermarket ones (Shelby, Roush, Genesis) to date have been comparatively crude and heavy sand castings.  I think we could possibly take a factory cover, put a window in it, and fab up a cover plate to access the cam sprocket.  Factory covers are still pretty inexpensive.

The infinitely adjustable upper cam sprocket has been discussed with a manufacturer and is somewhere on the "gotta get moving on it" project list here.

cjshaker

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #247 on: July 18, 2013, 01:31:35 PM »
What process is the factory molded by? Certainly too smooth for sand cast, and not sure if injection molding was used then.I'm not an engineer, so I have no idea. Maybe die-cast?

Keeping it realatively thin like originals is best, unless going the blower/crank snout support way or the alchohol/nitro pump mount way.

And the Danny Bee drive has always been appealing, just could never justify the cost for anything I built. I may consider it for my next project though.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

70cj428

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #248 on: July 19, 2013, 12:30:57 PM »
Quote
What process is the factory molded by?

Yep, Die Cast

Die Casting a part that big = REALLY expensive tooling   :o


Ford428CJ

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jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #251 on: July 28, 2013, 03:46:52 PM »
I haven't really checked out any 351C manifolds to speak of yet.  All of those above look interesting, and I also like the 3V CHI manifolds.  I suppose I could spend a fortune on 351C intakes and try them all out, but I'm not planning to do that anytime soon.  I'm really just focused on getting this first intake programmed (which, as it happens, I have just about finished up).  I think there will be plenty of time to mess with the intakes later...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #252 on: July 28, 2013, 05:10:16 PM »
Last week Bill Conley was kind of enough to send me this reminder of where I've been for the last several weeks:



It dragged me out of GCH for about 30 seconds, which was nice  ;D  Then I went back in for more punishment.  I finally emerged last night at 1:00 AM, when the first decent intake manifold came off the CNC machine.  This one still has some problems; there are some lettering errors, one spot in the thermostat housing where I inadvertently ran a tool into the manifold, and some other things.  But overall it isn't bad, and it would be usable on an engine.  Today I spent some time doing detailed measurements on the manifold, checking the fit with some of my 351C intakes, etc.  I made some minor program modifications around the valve cover rail area and in some other spots.  And then at 3:30 this afternoon I loaded another casting onto the machine and punched the button.  This one should run all the way through with no issues, and hopefully it will be perfectly machined when it comes out.  Crossing my fingers...

Here's some photos of the one that came off the machine last night.  This is the third manifold that I've tried; the first two have machining errors that make them unusable on an engine.  Here's a shot inside one of the CNC ports, which really took me quite a bit longer to program than I had anticipated.



I did discover one problem with the ports along the way.  The position of the pattern for the cast port for cylinder 7 is off just a little bit; here's a pic of that port, where you can see the upper left corner is still as cast, rather than machined:



In the immortal words of Maxwell Smart, "Missed it by THAT much!"  Fortunately the port cores are about the simplest part of all the core parts, and I can get that core box modified before I cast the first production run of manifolds.  In order to test a new core, I've taken some of the sand cores that the foundry gave me and modified them by sanding away that upper left corner.  I'm going to get another two or three manifolds cast with these modified cores to make sure that they will fix the problem, and then I'll have the core box modified to reflect the change.

I've been really struggling the last few weeks over the pushrod holes.  I wanted to make them work for low riser and medium riser pushrod spacings (2.0" and 2.10", respectively), but still leave a decent wall between the pushrod hole and the port so that people who are port matching don't inadvertently go through into the pushrod hole.  I talked to Barry R and Blair P about this issue; I wanted to go with an oblong hole, but this would make it more difficult to sleeve the hole if you did happen to break through when porting.  A round hole, of course, would be much easier to sleeve.  Now in the past, I've actually done some sleeving with oblong tubes; in fact I built a special arbor a while back that would allow me to take an aluminum tube, squash it in the vise a little, and push it onto the arbor, which was an oblong shape.  Then I was able to sleeve the oblong hole (that I had previously machined) in the manifold I was working on; I think it was the Victor I used in my Mach 1 back in 2005.  You just tap the arbor in place with the pushrod tube installed on it, along with some JB Weld or Loctite or whatever, and the knock the arbor out from the other side.  Anyway, the better fit to the pushrods with varying valve spacing that you get with the oblong pushrod hole won out; maybe I'll end up making an oblong arbor available for anyone who needs to sleeve these holes.  And of course I plan to offer the pushrod holes in different locations for anyone who is running an offset rocker arm.  So, maybe having to sleeve an oblong hole won't come up very much.  Here's a photo of a few of the pushrod holes in the intake:



One good idea that came up on this forum a while back was to O-ring the road draft tube hole.  I was already planning on O-ringing the center access panel hole, and had thought briefly about O-ringing the road draft tube hole too, but didn't really pursue that idea because I was concerned that the basket that fits into the road draft hole opening was too big to allow a decent O-ring, and still leave enough material to seal with a regular gasket outside the O-ring if necessary.  But after it came up here I decided to look at this again, and it turned out that there was barely enough room if I used a 3.375" OD O-ring.  So this manifold has been machined for one, and it looks like it will work out pretty well.  Here's a pic of the manifold from the top, showing both O-rings in position:



Finally here's another pic of this manifold with the covers installed.  I ended up using button head capscrews on the covers because in one case, the 351C manifold interfered with the taller heads of the regular allen head capscrews.  It's always something; thankfully the button heads solved the problem:



The only thing I really have left to do, assuming the next manifold comes out of the machine looking good, is to build a fixture to drill and tap the thermostat housing holes and the water bypass tube hole.  I should be able to get that done next weekend; then it will be time for the dyno...




Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #253 on: July 28, 2013, 10:42:50 PM »
Looking good!  Sure looks like a lot of work!  I hope it pays dividends on the dyno for you.   What diameter is the oblong hole?  1/2", 9/16", 5/8"?  I have squashed tubes before to make them work, also.  Not an issue really if it is done correctly.  Can't wait to see one for real.  Joe-JDC.

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #254 on: July 28, 2013, 11:30:48 PM »
I'm looking forward to having you stop by too, Joe, should be a fun night.  The pushrod holes are 5/8" diameter, and extended in the middle 0.300" to get the oblong shape.  I'm not looking for big numbers on the dyno, just hoping for parity with an FE specific intake.  As long as I can get that, the advantages offered by the design of this intake will make it a pretty attractive option.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC