Author Topic: FE Intake Adapter  (Read 328156 times)

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Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #135 on: May 30, 2013, 05:13:17 PM »
air pressure is key to not crushing/fracturing the glass beads, whatever size you use.  It will take longer with less air pressure, but the finish is smoother, and no glass imbedded in metal to worry about coming off in the fuel wash down and ruining the valve job, or ring seal.  Some steel shot will give a smooth and shiny surface, also if the size and pressure are correct. 

Now when do we make the deposits?  LOL.  I still want 2 ea.  If you make a boo boo on one, I sure would be interested in obtaining at least one side to use to make a venturi for flowing heads with.  Will pay for it.  Joe-JDC,

TimeWarpF100

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #136 on: May 30, 2013, 05:13:56 PM »
Thanks, I'd like to have that item number.  If Edelbrock uses glass beads on their manifolds, that's good enough for me.  Although I have been investigating some chemical dip options over the last few days...

The course beads give it kind of a sparkle~new appearance.

couple pics of my Tunnel Wedge after. Kind of poor photo's.
I have been in and out of hospital last few wks so will try to get the item number when I can.





jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2013, 10:52:38 AM »
Thanks guys, great info - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #138 on: June 01, 2013, 03:24:44 PM »
Got my fixtures finished up today, a little behind schedule but still moving forward pretty fast on this.  Here's a photo of the second operation fixture block mounted on the trunnion table.  The top outline of this block fits inside the center access hole of the manifold, indicating it with respect to the fixture:



Here's the manifold sitting on this fixture:




And here's the manifold with the fixture "top" bolted in place.  This is another aluminum piece that bolts to the bottom fixture, and sandwiches the manifold between them in order to hold it securely for machining purposes:



While the fixtures were machining I was busy writing the first programs to machine the manifold, so I will kick that off in the next few minutes.  There's a lot of sub-programs to write, but I suspect I'll make a serious dent in the second operation machining procedures by the end of the day Sunday.  More photos Sunday night...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jwhitton

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #139 on: June 01, 2013, 08:13:25 PM »
Jay, I suspect your heat treater is using a 2 stage heat treat in air and a liquid quench at the end of the solution heat treat? That's the dirty option.
You could source a vacuum heat treat utilizing a helium quench. This would eliminate the post processing required for the look. Parts would come out of the furnace looking bright virgin silver. Cost will be higher, but that depends on the cost of blasting. A single furnace would do both heat treatments (solution and precip) required for T6 in a single run as well. For cost purposes, you would likely need a high number of parts to maximize the load.
Not sure what options you have where you are or near your foundry.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 08:17:38 PM by jwhitton »

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #140 on: June 01, 2013, 09:26:43 PM »
That's right Jim, its a T6 solution heat treat, so the parts are quenched at the end.  My foundry outsources this service to a heat treat company, and they happen to be within a few miles of me.  The cost I've been quoted to heat treat the manifolds in quantities of 50 is really nominal, about $7 per manifold.  Any idea how much more expensive the helium quench heat treat would be? 

One option for cleaning up the manifolds after the normal solution heat treat is a chemical dip; I've got one of the intakes at a local company now and they are looking at the options to brighten them up after the heat treat.  Right now I'm thinking that the normal solution heat treat followed by a chemical dip might be the most cost effective option...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fe66comet

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #141 on: June 01, 2013, 10:24:18 PM »
I see the project is proceeding as planned Jay, looks like you are getting close. I guess an intake, adapters  and water pump  manifolds are going to be my next project. This month's is getting some cash to Barry for my head upgrades, by the time you get it all worked out I should be ready to start sending you some cash......Jon

jwhitton

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #142 on: June 02, 2013, 06:15:08 AM »
I don't think you could find a source for vacuum heat treating that could come close to $7 per manifold. I'm guessing 5x to 10x that number, depending on the size of the furnace, the age of the capital involved and the industry the source is in. That heat treat is common in my business (aerospace), but those guys get real comfortable charging aero dollars.

I think your current path is the most cost effective.


jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #143 on: June 02, 2013, 10:47:20 AM »
OK, that's kind of what I figured.  Thanks for the input, Jim.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #144 on: June 02, 2013, 10:01:10 PM »
It has been quite the CNC weekend here, but this lump of aluminum is finally starting to look like an FE intake.  I spent most of the day Saturday and all day today writing the programs and running them very carefully with the CNC machine, to try to catch any major mistakes before they happened.  After writing the first programs yesterday afternoon, I set up to run the code and the very first thing that happened was I had a typo in the code, and didn't catch it until my 1" end mill just about bored through the rear end rail of the manifold  >:(  It was on a rapid downstroke of the tool and even though I had my finger on the Feed Hold button of the mill, I couldn't stop it in time.  Just a cosmetic problem, but still...  Then, a couple of operations later the same thing happened again, this time with a 1/2" end mill.  Damn typos...

Despite these issues I made progress all day yesterday and today on the intake.  I was going to put together a video of the manifold turning on the 4th axis, but I haven't had time to put that together yet.  So here are some pictures.  The first two pictures show the intake in the CNC machine:





Note on the second picture that the manifold has to be positioned directly under the carousel tool changer for some of the operations.  Towards the back of the tool changer you can see a 1 1/4" roughing end mill, along with some fairly long drill bits.  Those got in the way during various operations while I was machining the manifold.  Fortunately I didn't crash the manifold into any of the tools, but several times I had to stop, reposition the tools in the carousel, and then re-write some code to allow for the change in tool position.  There's a couple of operations where the manifold just barely sneaks between two of the tools that are hanging down, but as long as it doesn't hit them, there's no problem.  The issue isn't relegate to the manifold hitting the tools, either; when the manifold is positioned upside down the trunnion table tends to get in the way.  See the photo below:



Despite all this, and some other minor machining errors, I was able to get the manifold largely machined this weekend.  In order to finish the head and 351C manifold surfaces of the intake I need a facing mill, and I don't have that yet; I should be getting it this week sometime.  But by the end of the day today I wanted to test fit the intake on my mock-up engine, so I ended up machining the mating surfaces with a 1" end mill, and leaving .062" of extra material on each surface.  That is the exact thickness of a gasket, so I figured I would test fit the manifold on the engine with no gaskets in place. 

I finally got all the required machining operations done earlier this evening, and took the manifold off the fixture.  Here's a couple photos of it sitting on the engine:





It fits beautifully!  Even the distributor dropped right in, and I have that hole tightly toleranced at the moment so I can move it around if necessary.  I can't tell you how happy I was when I measured the height of the valve cover rails and found them all to be within .002" of the height of the rails on the head.  I had been worried that there would be some major issue with fit, but thankfully those worries proved unfounded.  I told my wife that I felt like I'd given birth, but she just shook her head and walked away :D

Just for grins I dropped a few of the 351C manifolds I have here onto the adapter to see how they looked.  The first photo shows the Edelbrock Torker 2; you can see that the bottom of that manifold will have to be cut or machined in order to fit all the way forward, because the manifold base hits the water jacket passage of the intake adapter:



Next I put the Edelbrock 2991 351Y (Y is for Yates) intake on.  This intake will require a slight modification to the machining of the intake adapter, because the ports are raised compared to a stock 351C port location.  But there's plenty of room on the adapter for that.  The intake will also require a different bolt pattern on the adapter; again, not a big deal.



Finally I stuck the big dog, the Edelbrock 2865 Glidden Victor, on the adapter.  I know a guy who has made over 800 HP with this manifold on a big 351C, so it is definitely capable of running the numbers.  But you can see from the photo that this manifold will require even more machining on the adapter, and probably on the flanges of the intake too, in order to fit.



For now I'm focusing on getting the machining operations completed for the intake adapter to mount the standard 351C manifolds.  Next weekend I should get all the bolt holes and pushrod holes done, get all the flanges finish machined, and maybe start working on the ports.  I'll post more pics as I get further along...



Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-jdc

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #145 on: June 02, 2013, 10:51:36 PM »
Is that last intake made for the 9.500" deck?  Some of the newer 351 intakes are cast with extra thick intake flanges so they can be used on the 9.5, or milled down to use on the 9.2 Cleveland engines.  I have one of them here that I am trying to make work on a Yates headed 427W.  I would check the manifold before I would cut the adapter you are making.  JMO, but check the specifications to see if it can be used both ways.  Joe-JDC.

jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #146 on: June 02, 2013, 11:05:27 PM »
Thanks Joe, I think I bought that manifold for the short deck, but it sure is tall compared to the other Yates intake.  You might be right about the flanges being machinable, because they are really thick on that one.  I was figuring on doing that to minimize cutting the intake adapter...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fe66comet

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #147 on: June 02, 2013, 11:25:21 PM »
Am I missing the boat again like when I thought a Cleveland intake had a distributor hole? What happens where the hole in the lifter valley is? Bear with me a Cleveland is a mystery to me, kinda like women well I know more about Cleveland engines than woman I guess. Engines have fuel and gas to make combustion to turn BTU into motion. Woman no clue LOL....Jon

Heo

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #148 on: June 03, 2013, 02:33:36 AM »
No dist. hole or water in Cleveland intake thats one of the
good ideas with this adapter. Easy and fast to swap intake
Understanding woman is like fixing electronics on a 20 year
old Italian car. You cant think unlogical enough  ;D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 02:39:02 AM by Heo »



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jayb

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Re: FE Intake Adapter
« Reply #149 on: June 03, 2013, 07:32:30 AM »
Am I missing the boat again like when I thought a Cleveland intake had a distributor hole? What happens where the hole in the lifter valley is? Bear with me a Cleveland is a mystery to me, kinda like women well I know more about Cleveland engines than woman I guess. Engines have fuel and gas to make combustion to turn BTU into motion. Woman no clue LOL....Jon

The big hole in the valley of the intake adapter is for an access panel; along with the manifold I will be providing a machined aluminum panel that bolts into place there, and seals with an O-ring.  This is so you can pull the 351C intake, and then pull that panel to have access to the lifter valley.  The hole at the back of the manifold is for a road draft tube or breather, and I'll also be providing a machined cover for that.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC