Edelbrock EFI purchase, pics and initial observations

[My427stang]

First, let me say that Summit dragged me around for a month, finally said the manufacturer didn't have any.  To which Brent jumped in and I had it in 3-4 days, with a tracking number which I was able to revector to a Walgreen's pickup so 2 grand worth of EFI stuff didn't sit on my front porch.  This isn't a bitch about Summit as much as how easy it was for Brent to get the deal done.  So don't think if him as just engines, clutches and cams. 

Second, it arrived pre-packaged and assembled in a nice box that keeps everything safe.  I bought the setup that comes with a tablet, and is supposedly ready to bolt on, but I suspect it will need some customizing for my use





The setup has nice parts, an idle air motor, and everything you'd expect, to include a distributor and the tablet.  Although you can tell it's a street system, the feed lines are smaller than I run on my Mustang, but certainly adequate for the rating and 36 lb injectors.  Should be a nice truck or mild build setup



Last for now, I anticipate the intake will need to come apart, both for some porting and fitting but also because STILL Edelbrock doesn't get that EFI needs more than one access to water and Fords don't give you that access anywhere like a  Chevy  If they only would add a bung to allow use of a heater, a gauge, and the coolant temp sensor this would be easy



I will end up doing the same to this one as I did the Massflo setup on the Mustang

[Pentroof]

Ross,
Why do you need a 2nd sensor to give you the same information? What I'm suggesting is maybe you should look at it from a different perspective. The computer already has that information, so why not pull it from there for whatever purpose you intend?

I know the Holley system offers multiple temp based triggers and outputs for gauges, etc. Edelbrock must have the same.

[C8OZ]

Not sure of the port size, but these things can be a lifesaver, too.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-hvac-elbow-connector-e5tz18599c?origin=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9JLxiaK03wIVEI7ICh0QUAZrEAQYASABEgJFT_D_BwE

[My427stang]

Ross,
Why do you need a 2nd sensor to give you the same information? What I'm suggesting is maybe you should look at it from a different perspective. The computer already has that information, so why not pull it from there for whatever purpose you intend?

I know the Holley system offers multiple temp based triggers and outputs for gauges, etc. Edelbrock must have the same.

2 reasons really

1 - I don't like my stock gauges not working, the truck (and the car) is as restored as they are modified, so I like everything to work as original

2 - The ECM may have the information, but it's fed to the tablet via Bluetooth, and I don't see any reason I want to mount a tablet somewhere on the dash to watch for it

As far as I am concerned, the coolant temp sensor talks to the computer, the gauge talks to me.  It would be handy if I could make one work for both, but real easy to weld a bung, just wish Edelbrock did it for me LOL

Not sure of the port size, but these things can be a lifesaver, too.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-hvac-elbow-connector-e5tz18599c?origin=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9JLxiaK03wIVEI7ICh0QUAZrEAQYASABEgJFT_D_BwE

That is a handy thing, I already use a 45 degree outlet, I'll get one in before I start drilling   might work well for the coolant temp sensor.  Thanks for the tip!

[turbohunter]

I’ve had a chance to fiddle with this set up on another’s car and really like it. I’ll be interested in your observations as I’m thinking about this for the wagon.

[Pentroof]

2 reasons really

1 - I don't like my stock gauges not working, the truck (and the car) is as restored as they are modified, so I like everything to work as original

2 - The ECM may have the information, but it's fed to the tablet via Bluetooth, and I don't see any reason I want to mount a tablet somewhere on the dash to watch for it

As far as I am concerned, the coolant temp sensor talks to the computer, the gauge talks to me.  It would be handy if I could make one work for both, but real easy to weld a bung, just wish Edelbrock did it for me LOL

Actually, what I was suggesting is using an output from the ECM to drive your factory gauge.

[My427stang]

Ahh sorry, generally a sender is a ground.  The engine coolant temperature is a variable circuit and the ECM is somewhat fussy on voltage, most factory stuff runs at 1/2V where I think even gauges are significantly more

I don't think I could unless I somehow modified the gauge to take an output from the ECM

[FElony]

First, let me say that Summit dragged me around for a month, finally said the manufacturer didn't have any.  To which Brent jumped in and I had it in 3-4 days, with a tracking number which I was able to revector to a Walgreen's pickup so 2 grand worth of EFI stuff didn't sit on my front porch.  This isn't a bitch about Summit as much as how easy it was for Brent to get the deal done.  So don't think if him as just engines, clutches and cams. 

I had no idea Walgreen's made a pickup called the Vector. How does it compare to the Big Three's offerings?

2 grand? Jeez, you rich guys. It take me 5 or 6 months to make that working my spot at the freeway offramp.

I guess I'm OK as long as I stop short of thinking about Brent as a human. Or an android.

Hey, it's Sat night and I'm running low on drugs and booze. You'll just have to put up with my weak-ass commentary. Or not. Send me a cheezburgr.

[Dan859]

It take me 5 or 6 months to make that working my spot at the freeway offramp.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there's a reason for that 

[My427stang]

I had no idea Walgreen's made a pickup called the Vector. How does it compare to the Big Three's offerings?

2 grand? Jeez, you rich guys. It take me 5 or 6 months to make that working my spot at the freeway offramp.

I guess I'm OK as long as I stop short of thinking about Brent as a human. Or an android.

Hey, it's Sat night and I'm running low on drugs and booze. You'll just have to put up with my weak-ass commentary. Or not. Send me a cheezburgr.

Drugs + booze = potential  thoughts of Brent...be careful buddy.  Bacon, Peyote and Tomato NOT a recommended combo

Story for you for the offramp though - My daughter, when we were in Pensacola FL, felt bad for this one-legged guy at the corner with a sign "I haven't eaten today"  She wanted to give him her McDonald's Happy Meal.  She was 6.  Rolled the window down, told the dude, expecting a smile even if he didn't want it. He replied in full Tourette's kind of swearing then ended with "I don't want your damned food, I want F-IN money!"   

Not the technique I would have used, it was a long time ago, but I was going to toss him a 5 too, but with a now crying kid, the light turning green and f-wad swearing at me, I gave him a good comment back and she kept her Happy Meal

[urchinhead]

Are you planning to change the fuel delivery system, or use the in tank set-up that you already have? The Edelbrock under-hood and the various in-tank pumps add a couple months to the panhandling game.

Also, what power level is the system rated for? The Edelbrock website lists the Pro Flo 35960 as,
“up to 550,” horsepower, while some of the distributors advertise it as 625.

I’m looking forward to following this project.

[FElony]

It take me 5 or 6 months to make that working my spot at the freeway offramp.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but there's a reason for that 

Well gosh, I dunno. Is it because my face looks like I grew up on an old nuclear test site? Or because I need to use Raid Flying Insect spray as a deodorant to keep the personal beasties at bay? I'm fairly certain I can improve both with a bucket of gas and a lighter, so I'll ponder that.

[FElony]

I had no idea Walgreen's made a pickup called the Vector. How does it compare to the Big Three's offerings?

2 grand? Jeez, you rich guys. It take me 5 or 6 months to make that working my spot at the freeway offramp.

I guess I'm OK as long as I stop short of thinking about Brent as a human. Or an android.

Hey, it's Sat night and I'm running low on drugs and booze. You'll just have to put up with my weak-ass commentary. Or not. Send me a cheezburgr.

 Bacon, Peyote and Tomato NOT a recommended combo

Your ignorance of fine cuisine is appalling.

Story for you for the offramp though - My daughter, when we were in Pensacola FL, felt bad for this one-legged guy at the corner with a sign "I haven't eaten today"  She wanted to give him her McDonald's Happy Meal.  She was 6.  Rolled the window down, told the dude, expecting a smile even if he didn't want it. He replied in full Tourette's kind of swearing then ended with "I don't want your damned food, I want F-IN money!"   

Not the technique I would have used, it was a long time ago, but I was going to toss him a 5 too, but with a now crying kid, the light turning green and f-wad swearing at me, I gave him a good comment back and she kept her Happy Meal

Yep, sometimes we need money for booze and drugs more than we need food. Life is harsh on the Ramp.

[C8OZ]

That is a handy thing, I already use a 45 degree outlet, I'll get one in before I start drilling   might work well for the coolant temp sensor.  Thanks for the tip!

The down side is they made these in a variety of threads/sensor/hose sizes, so it's easy to end up with a drawer full of also-rans.

[My427stang]

Are you planning to change the fuel delivery system, or use the in tank set-up that you already have? The Edelbrock under-hood and the various in-tank pumps add a couple months to the panhandling game.

Also, what power level is the system rated for? The Edelbrock website lists the Pro Flo 35960 as,
“up to 550,” horsepower, while some of the distributors advertise it as 625.

I’m looking forward to following this project.

My game plan is to run a big Mallory pump that came with the Massflow system.  I used an in tank pump in the Mustang, but not sure I'd want to hear it in the cab.  As far as plumbing, intent right now is to poke two holes in the tank and put AN bulkhead fittings with nylon washers, one with a standoff pipe and filter to the bottom of the tank.  However, not sure.  I do not intend to put a tank underneath, but it might be the smartest option but the most costly for bodywork

[RustyCrankshaft]

I didn't know they finally put the FE version into production. When I was a looking a while ago it kept saying the delivery was TBA.

I'm curious if they have updated the hardware/software so you can save a permanent base tune? The Edelbbrock I used about a year and a half ago on a (don't ban me yet) LS wouldn't let me turn the self tune off. Must like most of the TBI setups like the FiTech, Sniper, etc. The thing I like about Holley is I can keep saving the learned map as the base map and refine the tune by driving. Then I can turn self-learning off and put some limits on adjustment by the O2 so it doesn't tune itself off a cliff if something goes bad.

I'm leaking towards getting a Holley kit for my truck project because I'd like to run a modern trans in that project and Holley currently has 4R70W support and they're supposed to be adding E4OD/4R100 software soon. Nice to have one program to use to tune it and one wiring harness to deal with.

I hear you on the coolant ports, it's nice to have a few options. I also like to have all the stock stuff working plus whatever I add.

[Barry_R]

The thing I like about Holley is I can keep saving the learned map as the base map and refine the tune by driving. Then I can turn self-learning off and put some limits on adjustment by the O2 so it doesn't tune itself off a cliff if something goes bad.

This is a HUGE deal on the basic EFI systems.

[My427stang]

I didn't know they finally put the FE version into production. When I was a looking a while ago it kept saying the delivery was TBA.

I'm curious if they have updated the hardware/software so you can save a permanent base tune? The Edelbbrock I used about a year and a half ago on a (don't ban me yet) LS wouldn't let me turn the self tune off. Must like most of the TBI setups like the FiTech, Sniper, etc. The thing I like about Holley is I can keep saving the learned map as the base map and refine the tune by driving. Then I can turn self-learning off and put some limits on adjustment by the O2 so it doesn't tune itself off a cliff if something goes bad.

I'm leaking towards getting a Holley kit for my truck project because I'd like to run a modern trans in that project and Holley currently has 4R70W support and they're supposed to be adding E4OD/4R100 software soon. Nice to have one program to use to tune it and one wiring harness to deal with.

I hear you on the coolant ports, it's nice to have a few options. I also like to have all the stock stuff working plus whatever I add.

I will dig through the directions today, and report back.  I agree as well, on my Ford system on the Mustang, using the Quarterhorse chip and EEC Analyzer program I was able to exactly that, plus an incredible amount of other options. I don't know on this one, I doubt it, but this is a Pro flo 4, and the big difference is a new ECM and supposedly better interface, we'll see.   I hope I can dig deeper than just "pick a cam, etc"

FYI - The price is pretty good on the Edelbrock kit.  Summit is at 1850 or so and it comes with intake, injectors, ECM, all wiring and sensors and a distributor.  I currently run a Duraspark, so I may have been able to use it, but if I went with a new distributor, a new intake and a Sniper or FITech, the price turned out to be very close.

I like your idea of a modern transmission, Holley is doing some neat stuff, I decided to do this one, but like I said earlier, the Sniper and FITech both looked like good options too.  My experience with TBIs has been almost as good as my port injected stuff.  Also, my NP435 doesn't care what the engine is doing

I suspect my next focus needs to be rear suspension, it hated the 445, doesn't really like the 390 in it now, but this one will likely wrap those 47 year old 2.25 inch leaves into a pretzel!

[Dubs1]

Hi Ross

Thanks much  for sharing your sage knowledge and experience   with us novices.  Looks like  a great package.

Have  a Very merry christmas

All the best

Larry

[My427stang]

Hi Ross

Thanks much  for sharing your sage knowledge and experience   with us novices.  Looks like  a great package.

Have  a Very merry christmas

All the best

Larry

Hardly a sage, but not afraid to help the economy a bit!

[Pentroof]

I'll be watching intently. I see the intake has some changes such as "EFI" replacing the Victor name and a different setup for the injectors and rails. I have an EFI Victor with a 4500 flange on my Cyclone that I installed years ago but still setup with a carb (rails holding rubber plugs in the injector ports). I've been waiting for a good MPI kit while trying to educate myself.

Question #1: is this casting more traditional consumer oriented with the port openings at the head interface? I know I had to add a lot of love to mine to match to my heads and Edelbrock historically intended it that way because this was an all-out performance intake. I suspect this new version has ports opened more like a Performer RPM?

What I've learned with the Sniper on my F100 is I don't want the ECM mounted on the motor due to ignition noise (also controlling my timing with it). For that reason alone, I like the Edelbrock kit. However, I've been able to tune the hell out of the Holley setup with the software (have to download this). I have even been able to pull timing out based on high air temp and can do so in stages. I'm hoping the Edelbrock is similar, but I'm not hearing much.

Question #2: how deep can you go with the tuning, especially with respect to timing control.

Looking forward to your journey on this, especially with your previous EFI experience.

[RustyCrankshaft]

I didn't know they finally put the FE version into production. When I was a looking a while ago it kept saying the delivery was TBA.

I'm curious if they have updated the hardware/software so you can save a permanent base tune? The Edelbbrock I used about a year and a half ago on a (don't ban me yet) LS wouldn't let me turn the self tune off. Must like most of the TBI setups like the FiTech, Sniper, etc. The thing I like about Holley is I can keep saving the learned map as the base map and refine the tune by driving. Then I can turn self-learning off and put some limits on adjustment by the O2 so it doesn't tune itself off a cliff if something goes bad.

I'm leaking towards getting a Holley kit for my truck project because I'd like to run a modern trans in that project and Holley currently has 4R70W support and they're supposed to be adding E4OD/4R100 software soon. Nice to have one program to use to tune it and one wiring harness to deal with.

I hear you on the coolant ports, it's nice to have a few options. I also like to have all the stock stuff working plus whatever I add.

I will dig through the directions today, and report back.  I agree as well, on my Ford system on the Mustang, using the Quarterhorse chip and EEC Analyzer program I was able to exactly that, plus an incredible amount of other options. I don't know on this one, I doubt it, but this is a Pro flo 4, and the big difference is a new ECM and supposedly better interface, we'll see.   I hope I can dig deeper than just "pick a cam, etc"

FYI - The price is pretty good on the Edelbrock kit.  Summit is at 1850 or so and it comes with intake, injectors, ECM, all wiring and sensors and a distributor.  I currently run a Duraspark, so I may have been able to use it, but if I went with a new distributor, a new intake and a Sniper or FITech, the price turned out to be very close.

I like your idea of a modern transmission, Holley is doing some neat stuff, I decided to do this one, but like I said earlier, the Sniper and FITech both looked like good options too.  My experience with TBIs has been almost as good as my port injected stuff.  Also, my NP435 doesn't care what the engine is doing

I suspect my next focus needs to be rear suspension, it hated the 445, doesn't really like the 390 in it now, but this one will likely wrap those 47 year old 2.25 inch leaves into a pretzel!

That is actually a pretty good price considering what you get with the kit for less than 2k!

I agree, TBI stuff is pretty good usually. If you really want to get crazy with sequential port injection you can get pretty good mileage at cruise, but at higher engine speeds you end up having to go back to batch fire or bank to bank anyway.

The quarterhorse is a pretty cool tuning tool for EEC stuff. Nice to be able to make changes on the fly.

Well, if the Edelbrock electronics don't work out at least you'll have all the hard parts in place and you can swap to someone else's ECM pretty easily. I'm curious to see how this new generation of Edelbrock does, hope it works out well.

[AmerigoHauler]

Hi Ross,

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on one of these and was wondering if you had gotten any further with yours? I've been doing a lot of research but the info on the FE specific version is sketchy at best.

I have a lot of questions to ask but I will probably start a thread myself on this, but I would like to know what kind of gear is on the distributor, I have a hydraulic roller setup in mine.

Thanks, Erich

[My427stang]

Erich, it has a melonized gear and can be used with a steel cam

I have not gotten any farther with mine because I have a couple of things in front of it, however I did have the intake modified with another coolant temp bung.

[blykins]

I would double check with the manufacturer to clarify exactly what the gear is made of.   FE hydraulic rollers are always billet steel cores and require true steel distributor gears.  If the gear on the distributor on those kits is rough looking, then I wouldn't trust it on a steel camshaft and would swap it out.  A steel distributor gear doesn't look cast.

[My427stang]

I would double check with the manufacturer to clarify exactly what the gear is made of.   FE hydraulic rollers are always billet steel cores and require true steel distributor gears.  If the gear on the distributor on those kits is rough looking, then I wouldn't trust it on a steel camshaft and would swap it out.  A steel distributor gear doesn't look cast.

I did, it looks like a steel gear is called melonized in the instructions. Ford used a similar process in the roller 5.0s, that being said, buyer beware, I am running mine on a flat tappet so my feedback won't be a good indicator

[dmann]

I have this setup as well, and I'll be running mine with a roller cam.  Hope to have it running later this summer.  I called Edelbrock and got the same info about the mellanized gear, they told me it will work with an aftermarket roller cam (I hope so).

I'm a bit bummed that they told me there is no planned support for forced induction.  It seems like they could offer an "advanced/buyer beware" menu to allow the additional functionality (maybe even sell an add on license).

The kit includeds the distributor and the intake so it seemed like a fair deal, based upon the price.  Good luck My427stang, keep us posted.


Dan

[blykins]

I have this setup as well, and I'll be running mine with a roller cam.  Hope to have it running later this summer.  I called Edelbrock and got the same info about the mellanized gear, they told me it will work with an aftermarket roller cam (I hope so).

I'm a bit bummed that they told me there is no planned support for forced induction.  It seems like they could offer an "advanced/buyer beware" menu to allow the additional functionality (maybe even sell an add on license).

The kit includeds the distributor and the intake so it seemed like a fair deal, based upon the price.  Good luck My427stang, keep us posted.


Dan

I don't think I'd trust the gear without some further investigation.   A lot of aftermarket roller cams are not steel and you can get cast roller cams for a lot of engine families.  The FE hydraulic roller cams are usually either 8620 or 9310 steel. 

So when someone says, "Yes, this will work with a roller cam.", it doesn't mean that it's compatible with *every* roller cam.

To be honest, every time I see mention of a melonized gear, it's usually associated with a cast camshaft. 

Not trying to be a stick in the mud, but there's a lot of misinformation about distributor gear compatibility. 

[Barry_R]

The melonized steel gears from Crane have been very good on numerous roller cams for years now.
Melonized is something of a trade name for a specific nitriding process.

[blykins]

Yep, I try to use Crane exclusively. 

I just don't have good feelings about everything that's called "melonized" and I'm not sure that everyone (even Edelbrock) knows that FE cams are billet.  I've seen cast iron distributor gears that were supposedly "melonized". 

[Leny Mason]

Hi, I have two things to say one is about the gas tank in the cab on Ross's 71 F 100, My old boss rolled his F100 over he could not get out for quite a while and the gas was dripping on him all the while, it would or been terrible he was a great boss so think about it Ross, and the other thing is I just bought a new stub cam from Doug at precision oil pumps, so I had to buy a new gear for oil pump drive- distributor from crane now I hope I got the right one, how do you tell. Leny Mason   

[turbohunter]

I ran a mechanical on mine as well, only reason I am swapping now is for the EFI.  Pretty affordable alternative.

Speaking of which, wuz goin’ on.

[Stangman]

Just curious is the manifold medium riser ports or low riser ports. 

[My427stang]

Hi, I have two things to say one is about the gas tank in the cab on Ross's 71 F 100, My old boss rolled his F100 over he could not get out for quite a while and the gas was dripping on him all the while, it would or been terrible he was a great boss so think about it Ross

No chance, if this truck burns, I am going with it

Just curious is the manifold medium riser ports or low riser ports. 

Medium riser, but not clean even with those, we port matched mine because they are cut so ugly, not even square to each other or any the same.  No idea why Edelbrock does that, you could say it's because they expect Victors to be ported, but this kit is supposed to be bolt on, and it was rough

Speaking of which, wuz goin’ on.

Omaha NE floods, work that pays for the toys (doing nice hyd roller 461 that should run real hard), daughter's college grad and job hunt, war games, got a lot of wrong parts in, slowest builds EVER.....LOL.  In fact, I bagged the bare blocks with desiccant pouches while I waited, it took so long

That being said, the 461CJ will be buttoned up this weekend except for final pushrod measurement, my 461 is assembled, but I am having cam doubts....planned a 280/286 112 LSA hyd flat tappet, in fact, it's in the engine, but probably going with a custom solid flat, just need to make the decision, and on my own I am a cheapskate, but like solids

[turbohunter]

Damn, hope everybody/everything is ok.
From the news I saw it was pretty rough.