Any race headers that will work with the Milodon T pan?

[cjshaker]

I've got a good Milodon T pan that I wanted to use, but will it fit with any of the race headers like the Hooker Race, Hedman Street/Strip or other headers that use the straight down front tubes?

[mn67]

Hooker race headers clear the Moroso t pan.

[cjshaker]

Thanks, the Hooker Race headers arent available anymore, but the Hedman race headers seem to have a nearly identical straight down tube design, so I might take a chance and hope they work as well.

[afret]

You might not like the ground clearance with most of the race headers if it's for a Mustang used on the street.  The REF headers you normally get won't work but I think I saw photos of a set that was on a Fairlane with a road race pan.  I think those headers were made with the car at REF in Arizona so if you take your car over there they probably could make a set. 

I considered going to race type headers on my Mustang but thinking about it, it's not worth it for a couple of tenths in the quarter.  The FPA headers are a bit of a cork and don't look so menacing but they sure have a lot of ground clearance.  The only thing I don't care for is the one piece design.  It would be nice if they would at least come apart in two pieces on each side to make R&R easier.  I guess it could be done if the right slip on collector could be found. It's easy to do with the street Hooker headers.  If I wanted to go a couple tenths quicker I could just take my car to a sea level track.   

Probably more productive to stinker with suspension and tires to get the car to hook and launch as well as possible.  Getting a quicker 60' time is worth a lot.  JMHO

[Stangman]

Had hedmanns when I got the car from dad in the eighties. Had to watch everywhere you went.
They scraped on everything. Speedbumps,driveways,big dips in the road if you were going to fast.
Looked cool as hell from the front. You got alot of open roads around you dont ya Doug. They might be fine. 

[cjshaker]

Thanks for the input, Earl and Joe. It is for my Mustang, which is mostly street driven, at least currently, and I'm in Ohio, so going to REF isn't an option. Since these will be going on a set of Pro-Port heads, I'll have to cut off the old flanges and rework them with a new set. After going to all the trouble and expense of putting together a good engine, with really good heads and intake, I kind of hate to leave that much power on the table by using an undersized set of headers. Maybe I can limit front suspension compression on the street with DA front shocks and an extended bump stop? They could get flattened a bit on the strip anyway, but that seems to be less of an issue in performance than an undersized primary coming out of the head.

Where I normally drive, the roads aren't bad and I can be careful, but I still have plans for using the car for Drag Week, which might cause some issues. Sometimes you just have to put up with certain things.

[Faron]

Try Mad Dog , just saw a post with them on a Mustang with a T pan worked well

[mbrunson427]

I'd bite the bullet and go REF. They likely have a pattern for your car already made, no need to take the car there. We have an extra set of REF's laying around that were bought for the 67 Mustang and later decided to put exhaust manifolds on it. Not sure how close those match up to a '69-'70.

[cjshaker]

Try Mad Dog , just saw a post with them on a Mustang with a T pan worked well

Faron, did those have the 2 tubes that cross over, or are they just 4 into 1? I can't find any pictures of their Mustang headers, but they seem to make several sets with the crossover design. I'd like to avoid that style.

I'd bite the bullet and go REF. They likely have a pattern for your car already made, no need to take the car there. We have an extra set of REF's laying around that were bought for the 67 Mustang and later decided to put exhaust manifolds on it. Not sure how close those match up to a '69-'70.

They should be the same design from '67-'70. I know REF makes some of the best headers out there, and they do have a pattern for Mustangs, but from several people I've talked to, they are VERY difficult to get installed, if not impossible without some surgery to sheetmetal. I might still give them a try, even if a little work is involved.

[XR7]

Doug, the Mustang headers I bought from Mad Dog were 4 into 1 slip fit and were not a cross over design. They are basically almost identical to Hooker race headers, same design on every tube. I had to modify two tubes slightly, but I have BT heads with a raised exhaust port including the flange itself. I had a deep Canton pan and the headers were still below that.



On the REF headers, I will have to modify a couple tubes as well although different tubes, at least for my car (4-speed with modified Z-bar linkage). The tubes fit up higher than the bottom of the pan so way more ground clearance. Several tubes do come in close to the pan however, I do not think they will work at all with a T-pan, but could possibly still be cut up to work.

One thing to think of, an oil pan is cheaper than headers... LOL. I have bought a few of each. The only time I have smashed headers is when I travel over to the coast and my engine makes more power, and wheelies like a bastard. My local track I can get it to not wheelie so high and never hit the headers. I have bump stops on both upper and lower control arms, but I will have to make them a little taller, as I thought they would work as I measured everything up, but in real life, the front tires are crushing into the wheel and the rear end comes up when the front drops so hard, and compresses into the track more than what a person "figures" out at home. I also bought a Calvert single wheelie bar and will be installing that this winter sometime.

On the Shelby Stocker, Earl had to extend the bump stops further (after they hit their oil pan a while back), so it doesn't hit anymore, it has REF headers so they do not hit either (about level or a little more clearance than the (Milodon legal) deep pan, even with wheelies just as high. I can feel the bump stops bottom out, not violent... but noticeable, but no damage and no aborted runs. It is fun as hell!

[Faron]

here is a Pic fro FE Fanatics Member , no cross over https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217700107953687&set=gm.740444469669529&type=3&theater&ifg=1

[afret]

If I were going to use the REF headers, I would just ditch my T-pan and bolt on the Milodon deep pan.  The pan is just barely lower than the headers.  Makes things a lot easier.

[plovett]

This doesn't answer the question, but I have 2" Crites headers which hang very low.  I just got taller front tires to get some more clearance for speed bumps and the like.  I think I have 205/75R15's up there.  I have the Milodon deep pan.

paulie

[cjshaker]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'll just ditch the idea of the T-pan. I had only wanted to use it because I had it, but there's no reason for me to insist on using it for my application. I guess a standard deep pan will make things easier.

Earl, thanks for the good picture. There does seem to be a pretty significant gain in clearance.

Thor, thanks for the great info...again. Question though; how did you add bump stops to the lower control arms? I can't picture how this would be done since they're directly under the upper A-arm.

I'm not on Facebook, so I couldn't see that one.

[Faron]

Pic of Mad Dog and T Pan

[afret]

On the stocker:  It touches the upper control arm when resting.



Street car has a bigger snubber:  This has about 1 1/2 finger clearance I think when resting.

[XR7]

I'll have to look and see if I can find a picture of the lower control arm bumper I made, not sure if I have one or not. If nothing else, I can take a picture later and post it. I also put a big monoball bearing and sleeve into the inner pivot of the lower control arm, and welded a plate on the bottom it in, like the trans am mod just to strengthen it and help take some load off the upper arm on landings.

I think Earl is right in his thinking, no reason to have a T-pan on a drag car as at that point, the headers will be much lower anyway, and be the clearance problem, not the pan. I think the Hookers and Mad Dog copies are about 2" or so lower than the REF. I have never seen those other Mad Dog Mustang headers, maybe something new or a street header, maybe they are not as big a tube either... not sure.

[cjshaker]

Like I said, I only wanted to use it because I had it, and it has good baffling to keep the oil in place. I wasn't even considering the depth advantage. I've always had the factory deep pan on my Mach and have never had an issue with it hitting anything, but it doesn't go wheels up on the strip either. However, with the new combo that will be going in it, things will get much more aggressive. Beefing up the front suspension with boxed lower arms and beefier strut rods and mounts is already on the list, as are using some rollerized components like upper and lower arms and spring mounts, which I already have.

I'm under the impression that the Crites headers are the same as Mad Dog. At least that's the info I come across online.

[CaptCobrajet]

Hey Doug, I own the fixture that is at REF for the T-pans.  We made the pattern years ago for my very wide Super Stock rear sump pan.  As it turned out, they are wide enough for the T-pans.  I know you have seen Scott Miller's Cougar...... it has headers made from that pattern.  If you wanted to do headers to work with the T-pan,  give me a holler.

[cjshaker]

Blair, I came across an old post on the old forum where you mentioned that. I figured I'd wait and talk to you about it when we discussed some particulars about the engine. Thanks.

[John67427]

Doug,
  I was under the same impression that the Crites and Maddog headers were the same. I tried the Crites with a Caton T pan and it is a No Go, at least with the original design. If there is a T pan design I’m an not aware of it at this time. Just my experience. I happened to have an old set of Kustom Headers and they worked fine. They have been out of business for a looong time.

[cjshaker]

Thanks for the info, John. Info on whether or not certain designs work with the T-pan seems to be on a case by case basis, at least as far as I can find. I'm just trying to avoid buying something that won't work and wasting money. Using the pan that I already have would also save me money, and offset the increased price of the REF headers.

The Milodon pan has excellent baffling and I think would work fine in a drag situation. It would also eliminate any chance of crushing the bottom and closing up the gap for the pick-up and cutting off oil supply. That's probably not an issue with the deep header design like the Hooker Race or Mad Dog headers, but the increased clearance of the REF headers might allow that to happen. Using the REF and T-pan combo seems like it would all but eliminate the possibility of that happening. Saved money and increased clearance is a win/win situation.