Author Topic: Engine Masters Challenge 2018  (Read 5823 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« on: September 30, 2018, 06:49:57 AM »
The Engine Masters deal looked like it was "done" after last year - the school that hosted it for a decade decided not to renew their sponsorship, and the magazine guys seemed like they had decided to focus on all the internet and TV show stuff that was disrupting their industry.  But somehow they managed to bring it back off of life support and its running again starting on Monday.

One result of the initial delay in getting things back on track was that we had a shortened timeline for rules and entry acceptance.  Rules are very similar to last years with only a couple tweaks.  Two classes - one for "Vintage" engines and one for "Traditional Muscle" engines.  As somebody that actively supported this contest for many years I decided that I kinda had to participate, and sent my entry in as a "Traditional Muscle" effort.  This particular class is further broken into two segments - small block and big block.  We each run over a defined RPM range (3500-6300 for big blocks) and add up the average torque plus the average horsepower over that range - and then divide that resulting total by the cubic inch displacement of the engine to establish a comparative "score".

Working against the limits of time as referenced above, and budget (as in I had not planned on doing this...) I decided to use as many parts as I could from prior efforts, along with some stuff that was needing some attention before it could be run.  The resulting engine is 468 cubic inches, and while it will not be a "player" it sure sounds good and run pretty well.  The block is an old one from a few years ago - a defective/prototype Genesis block where the starter side is pretty much made out of stitch pins, braze, bondo, and paint.  The crank is a Scat cast 4.125, the rods are Scat 6.8 H beams.  Pistons are a set of used Diamonds from a prior year, they were originally for a 4.25 crank and we milled down the tops & let them hang out of the bore by .020", counting on a used set of .066 Cometic gaskets to keep it away from the head.  Compression is at 11.47:1 against a rules limit of 11.75:1 so we are leaving some on the table there.  Bearings are used F-M race stuff, rings are used .043-.043-3.0mm, rear seal is even used :) .

Cam is a solid roller from an old entry that seemed to work really well for torque - it's only 236@.050 and has .670 lift with the bolt on Harland Sharp rockers we are using ( last time this cam was in an engine it had T&D 1.9 rockers and over .700 lift...).  Timing set is one of the adjustables - actually the prototype we made a couple years ago - it is of course "used", and resides under one of Jay's timing covers.  The oil pan is a C8AX-A that I have run a couple times now.

Heads are Survival CNCs.  They were made from a pair of castings where the guides had been installed with too tight a press fit and had developed cracks in the part of the guide boss that hangs down into the port.  We ended up with a couple pairs of these at the tail end of our last run of castings, and since the CNC work removes that portion of the guide boss we converted them to this use.  They will be for sale after Tuesday...  The valve springs are rather interesting - one of my contacts at Comp insisted that they would work great and I tried them with fear in my heart - they are a conical single spring with a TI retainer and only 150 seat and under 500 lbs open pressure.  He was right though - on this solid roller cam they are glass smooth past 6500 RPM.

The intake is a Victor that was ported by Joe Craine a few years ago.  It was actually tested at that time, but a radically modified dual plane out scored it so this one never made it into the contest.  The rules say no welding on intakes this year, and that dual plane was damn near made out of weld, so the Victor is pressed into service because it was ready to go.  Just like before it makes really good higher RPM power at the expense of some low end torque.  Rules say a 4150 style carb, thus my old QFT piece is up on top.  It really like a four into one transition style spacer this time.

Headers are chassis exit catalog parts, water pump is a normal Edelbrock.  Ignition is some crazy deal from Dr Tim made out of all kinds of capacitors and dilithium crystals and whatnot.  He is not allowed to control timing externally by the rules, but nobody says anything about spark energy, coil saturation, dwell variation, magnetic resonance and warp core function.  The good thing is that nobody knows if he is really doing any of that stuff anyways, nobody has the ability to prove or disprove whether it works, nobody can comprehend his explanation of its functionality, and everybody walks away glassy eyed and looking for alcohol.

On my dyno here the engine scored in the middle 2300s, with a best peak power number of 650 and multiple pulls around 640ish.  Peak torque seems to be right under 600, with lots of pulls in the 592 to 594 ranges.  Still trying to wrap my head around a 468 inch engine that peaks at 6500 with a 236@.050 cam.  Really wanted it to come in at around 6000-6200 but we will run what we run and have some fun.  I am scheduled to be one of the last guys running on Tuesday.  I will add in some pictures of the engine once I figure out how to get them off of my phone.  And will try to report from time to time as we do our thing.

Scores and updates are supposed to be posted online as they happen...

https://www.hotrod.com/events/engine-masters-challenge/

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7405
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2018, 10:24:19 AM »
Sounds like a great engine Barry, good luck at the contest. I'm glad to see that they are still running it, and I'm sure they appreciate your support.  Your cam has me puzzled and very interested too, even with durations over 250@0.050" and a single plane intake I often see peak power numbers in the 6200-6300 RPM range.  236@0.050 and peak power at 6500 is really, really different...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

blykins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4822
    • View Profile
    • Lykins Motorsports
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2018, 12:35:49 PM »
Shows the heads are working really well.
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

cjshaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4460
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2018, 02:03:16 PM »
Shows the heads are working really well.

I think it's the dilithium crystals and whatnot.  It's obviously having a huge impact on the magnetic resonance and warp core function
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1697
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2018, 02:36:52 PM »
Maybe we could find Barry 1.21 jigawatts

Chrisss31

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 04:54:16 PM »
Get the cable and meet Barry at the clock tower.

427HISS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 05:41:47 PM »
Go Barry, Go Barry, Go Barry....... 8)

427HISS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2018, 05:58:19 PM »
Shows the heads are working really well.

I think it's the dilithium crystals and whatnot.  It's obviously having a huge impact on the magnetic resonance and warp core function

Lol,...laughed my @ss off !

gdaddy01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2018, 08:05:21 PM »
I am waiting on  FElony comments .   very good of you Barry .

fastf67

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 49
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2018, 09:34:08 PM »
I never post as I believe in listen and learn, but I have to say:
With the intake ported, your cnc heads and .670 lift for the flow! If that cam does not have much advance ground in the rpm's can go sky high. Would be a great cam for a 8 stack injection sounds like. Will make a very nice showing for shure. Kudos to you. Didn't happen to get crystal dust on the cam?

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 05:05:11 AM »
I personally think it is simply the heads and intake being too large for the purpose.  Cant mistake the cam as being all that mild despite the visually modest specifications.  The lobes came out of the "lift rule" oval track selections Comp has, and its actually a really nasty little TKish lobe, just scaled down.  About the shortest duration race style lobe we could grind at the time using existing FE cores, and it worked well on an earlier 433 inch effort.

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 06:30:06 AM »
Why not mill the heads for that last bit of compression?  Just wondering. 

paulie

FElony

  • Guest
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2018, 12:01:23 PM »
I am waiting on  FElony comments .   very good of you Barry .

Custom "On Demand" FElonius witticisms, snarkiness, and self-debasing tribble are rather expensive. You must pay in advance. And, said payment only accepted in gold-pressed Latinum bars. Otherwise, not a peep outta me.

shady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 01:29:30 PM »
Who are you kidding. When you are quiet, we know you're probably doin time. Either that or you luckily found a lot lizard. Not that there is anything wrong with that, ya understand.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
2021 FERR cool FE Winner
2022 FERR cool FE Winner
2023 FERR cool FE Winner

gdaddy01

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 656
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 06:43:10 PM »
Always get a smile from your comments , thanks

FElony

  • Guest
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 01:17:38 PM »
Who are you kidding. When you are quiet, we know you're probably doin time. Either that or you luckily found a lot lizard. Not that there is anything wrong with that, ya understand.

The judge said I could volunteer for CIA brain experiments now, since I've been breakin' rocks in the hot sun on an Arizona chain gang for the last 25 years. HA! The joke is on them! The CIA couldn't even find my brain!

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2018, 05:52:44 PM »
Well this is fun...
Dyno electrical issues.
After waiting and preparing all afternoon we got pushed back until tomorrow

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2018, 05:43:13 AM »
Nicely done as usual, Barry!  You gonna put these heads in the classifieds?  I am interested in buying them.

paulie

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1915
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2018, 08:07:03 AM »
I need to do a write up on this effort - - maybe after I get some sleep....

Engine performed flawlessly, but score was down just a small amount from my home numbers.  We tried some fuel at it which had a minimal impact and just let it run since we knew it was not a contest winning package.  Probably should have tossed a couple degrees of timing at it.  I was cautious about doing so because it showed a large variance in fuel ratio from side to side with one bank looking really lean - did not know which one to believe in.  It showed no sign of detonation and likely could have taken a couple degrees more to puff up the bottom end side of the score a touch.

I mentioned the heads becoming available and two (now three) folks instantly requested info and after a couple phone conversations one of them sent money over instantly.  So they are "sold".  I am going to see how quickly I could duplicate them for the other gentleman since I did not anticipate that quick a response, but I do have several normal head assemblies to get taken care of first.  We can move this discussion off the tech board if you are interested in something similar.

I will also have some nifty pickup truck headers available pretty cheap...

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Engine Masters Challenge 2018
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2018, 10:39:22 AM »
Well shoot.  I guess I'll have to be more aggressive next time.  I was trying to give you some time to rest after the Engine Masters.  ☺