Well summer ended when I blew my TKO Saturday at Milan Dragway

[66sevets]

posted this on the other forum too but I know there are guys that don't go there so I put it here too.

I was just trying to get 1 more weekend in after a summer of odd problems kept my car in the garage mostly. I started at beaver springs in April and only 4 runs in because I blew a header gasket and couldn't get at the bolts while laying under the car at the track. Ran 11.60 11.80 at 121 mph with 2.2 60 ft times and hitting the rev limiter, 7200, well before the traps. Went home watched some video that was posted and saw the rear bounce up at the hit so I change my upper shock mounts and stood my shocks up almost straight. while doing that I noticed the wheel studs were all bent on the drivers side. Changed the studs out and was thinking I didn't have the lug nuts torqued properly at beaver springs. Took it to time trials at Milan made sure everything was torque up, ran 11.30 at 123 with a 1.50 60ft time still hitting the rev limiter well before the traps. re torqued the wheels, went out again and bent the lugs again. The racers around me were suggesting it's the lug nuts. Took it home and put new studs in the drivers side got new lug nuts, also put some new 750 Quik Fuels on it, took it back the next time trials and ran 10.82 at 123 still finishing the last 200 ft on the rev limiter. Second run was 10.90 at 123 and I bent the studs again. I decided the steal Vintique wheels can't handle the power so I ordered some retro looking Weld Wheels and figured if I'm buying the wheels I might as well get some 30 inch tires in there to replace the 28's and bring my rpm's down. It took 6 weeks to get the rims and a week to get the tires to fit the rear of my Comet. I thought I was all set now! Took it out Saturday to the Nostalgia drags, lots of cars so only 1 time trial. Got to the line knowing I had only this one run so make it good. Got the slicks hot, got a decent launch, hit second no problem, third and didn't feel anything, played around with shifter and third was gone but 4th was there. Then I looked in the mirror and saw nothing but smoke behind me. got back to the pits and the passenger side of the case has a big crack and oil everywhere! I thought I was all set with this TKO, I bought it new from Liberty's, all face plated but the weak link I guess. Now I'm wondering if an auto is the way to go? Here's a photo of the car after the calamity. Sorry for the racers that had to wait for the cleanup!

edit to add motor info

482 pond block 4.24 x 4.25
Kieth Craft stage 2 heads
tunnel wedge
comp solid roller  ex 4869 296XSR   @ .050  258  lift .663 it actually was a 4876 lobe which is not in the catalog anymore but close to this
                          in 4877 298XSR   @ .050  260 lift .666
11.1 pump gas
Prec Oil rockers
Mahle pistons

[cjshaker]

First, beautiful car, and congrats on knocking your 60' times down and cutting your ET by a big amount. What were you running before and why did you change to the QF's? Could you see or feel a difference with the change?

Sorry to hear about the breakage. Sounds like the TKO isn't up to the task of hard launches, but I think I'd be looking at a different tranny rather than going to an auto. That would take a lot of the fun out of it, in my opinion.

I'm also curious if you're running stock 1/2" wheel studs? Might be time to step up to 5/8". Seems a bit odd to only be bending the drivers side though. Have you looked at the axle stud holes to make sure they aren't wobbled out?

[e philpott]

What Clutch are you running ?? Is this a adjustable Slipper Clutch ? I would guess the Trans breakage is Clutch related

[66sevets]

What Clutch are you running ?? Is this a adjustable Slipper Clutch ? I would guess the Trans breakage is Clutch related

I'm running a Mcleod RXT twin disc and I think you're right! But that being said do you think with a slipper it wouldn't break being over powered?

First, beautiful car, and congrats on knocking your 60' times down and cutting your ET by a big amount. What were you running before and why did you change to the QF's? Could you see or feel a difference with the change?

Sorry to hear about the breakage. Sounds like the TKO isn't up to the task of hard launches, but I think I'd be looking at a different tranny rather than going to an auto. That would take a lot of the fun out of it, in my opinion.

I'm also curious if you're running stock 1/2" wheel studs? Might be time to step up to 5/8". Seems a bit odd to only be bending the drivers side though. Have you looked at the axle stud holes to make sure they aren't wobbled out?

I was running a set of 600 set up like BJ Bk carbs which ran great. I changed to the QF's because I they were sitting in the boxes on the shelf calling out at me. I think the et improvement was more 60 ft time than carbs. I seemed to pick up 1 mph with the carb change but that's riding on the rev limiter for 200 ft or so.

I have 1/2 inch Strange studs and thought about upgrading to 5/8 but I think the steel wheels with the tapered lug nut is the problem also the cost of going to 5/8 I think I'll get new axles and go with 33 or 35 spline. If I was to put steel wheels on again I would use a truck style flanged lug nut. Guys at the track tell me the drivers side takes more abuse than passenger side, even my drivers side axle has a half spline of twist and passenger has none.

Not a good photo but the only one I have, it shows the bent studs from beaver springs which was worse than this photo shows.

[afret]

Nice running car!  Sorry to hear about your trans.  I guess those steel wheels with the tapered seat nuts put too much stress in a small area on the studs.  Don't know if it would have made a difference but did the center hole in the wheel fit the pilot on the axle flange well?  Hope you get it running again soon.

[66sevets]

Nice running car!  Sorry to hear about your trans.  I guess those steel wheels with the tapered seat nuts put too much stress in a small area on the studs.  Don't know if it would have made a difference but did the center hole in the wheel fit the pilot on the axle flange well?  Hope you get it running again soon.

Yep the tapered nut gives it the ability to rock too, a flanged lug nut won't rock as easy. I think after the first bent set of studs the rims were shot too for racing. No the center doesn't pilot, I walked the pits looking at wheel centers for just that and most don't. Even the flange on the axle doesn't stick past the rotor. I'll have it for next summer hopefully beaver springs again.

[machoneman]

Yes, a 'slipper' clutch in high powered stick cars is almost mandated. We left the door slammer drag race scene long ago shortly before (or at the time) when slipper adjustable clutches came into vogue. Broke so many stick trannys it wasn't funny. Thought of plugging in a slushbox but then (mid 70's) auto trannys were still markedly slower and also prone to (case) breakage.

Today, it's amazing just how much an adjustable slipper 'saves' a tranny for a whole season, and more, yet 0-60' times are dead on and fast!

Perhaps folks here like Larry (Battlestar) will chime in on the benefits, ways to start out and how to adjust once the combo is running.

[Rory428]

How much do you street drive the Comet? To me, having a dual duty street strip car has too many compromises. A low pressure adjustable clutch and a transmission made for drag racing (G Force or Jerico) make for very reliable and reapeatable car at the strip, not something I would want to live with on the street though. I have been running McLeod Soft Lok clutches and Jerico DR4 transmissions in my Fairmont since 2000, and also used that same style of trans and clutch in my Mustang from 2003 until 2 years ago, and have made probably close to 1000 1/4 mile passes, and it that time, I have hurt the trans 3 times, and had the cluthes rebuilt every 2 to 3 years.  Personally, I would rather quit racing than put an automatic in my Fairmont again! I did run the Fairmont with an automatic from 1988 thru 1999, just going from the automatic (with a 8" convertor and transbrake, launching at WOT at 5200 RPM) to the Jerico knocked 1/2 second of the ET and gained 6 MPH. And if you do drive on the street much, a slushbox with a loose torque convertor gets pretty old in a hurry too.

[66sevets]

I haven't driven it on the street this year at all. It"s a handful and very loud on the street. Clanging locker and face plated gears I think it scares people. I've got a Mustang with a beefed up c4, I hate it and have been collecting parts to convert it to a stick. I need to save some money! does a Jerico fit toploader bellhousing?

[e philpott]

Jerico is based off of the Ford Top Loader and bolts right in , G-Force is another good company for Manuals …. I run the sof-loc clutch on street and it's not an ideal package for street

[66sevets]

I really want the stick not an auto I thought I was good with the TKO but in the back of my mind I knew I had the wrong clutch. I think I even told Rory that at beaver springs.

[Rory428]

As previously mentioned, a Jerico will bolt up to a regular toploader application bellhousing. Jericos have multiple mounting holes for the front case to bell and has trans mount provisions for Ford, GM and MoPar mounts and locations. They also have  the tailhousing drilled and tapped for the shifter mounting to be almost anywhere you would want. Jericos as well as G Force G101As are available with several different input shaft spline configurations and lengths. Not a big deal if you are buying new, but you may need to change the input shaft and front bearing retainer if you buy a used trans from a different application. When I bought my first Jerico, it had been used in a BB Chevy Super Stock Corvette, so I had to buy a new input and retainer to use it behind my FE. Luckily when I bought the 2nd Jerico for my SB 85 Mustang, it was already setup for a FOX Mustang, so I didn`t need to change anything.

[66sevets]

As previously mentioned, a Jerico will bolt up to a regular toploader application bellhousing. Jericos have multiple mounting holes for the front case to bell and has trans mount provisions for Ford, GM and MoPar mounts and locations. They also have  the tailhousing drilled and tapped for the shifter mounting to be almost anywhere you would want. Jericos as well as G Force G101As are available with several different input shaft spline configurations and lengths. Not a big deal if you are buying new, but you may need to change the input shaft and front bearing retainer if you buy a used trans from a different application. When I bought my first Jerico, it had been used in a BB Chevy Super Stock Corvette, so I had to buy a new input and retainer to use it behind my FE. Luckily when I bought the 2nd Jerico for my SB 85 Mustang, it was already setup for a FOX Mustang, so I didn`t need to change anything.

That's good advice! Things I never thought about. I was looking at racing junk and there are a few, new is big bucks I don't have. might have look for stuff to sell!

[cjshaker]

Be careful buying the used Jericos. You'll want to make sure you have a source for the correct input shaft, because Jerico is no longer producing the DR4 OR the parts for them. It has been upgraded to the DR4-4, and from what I've gathered, parts are not interchangeable. As you've seen on Racing Junk, there are lots of the older units for sale (and for the very reasons I stated, I believe), and they are at reasonable prices, but I'd want to know for sure that it has either been recently serviced with good parts or that you have a source for those parts lined up. Parts will eventually dry up and then you'll be left holding a useless tranny. Most of the guys here that run them either already have a spare or have some parts for them, or at least know where to get some for the time being.

[ec164]

Hi Steve, Sorry to hear of your mis-fortunes! You did do a Great job lowering your Et, your Comet looks awesome in that picture! Good Luck on your decision over the next few months in what to purchase. Those 30" tall tires must of been fun getting to fit, also if you change axles just get 35 spline and a good spool, you don't drive enough on the street to worry much, in my opinion. Take Care....Al

[66sevets]

Thanks for good advice!

[KjcfeF100]

I had missed this post, sorry to hear your issues, but I had almost the exact same thing happen with my TKO in 2016.  I had it face plated, and it shifted well at all RPMs.  Making a pass at the strip, I shifted into 3rd and nothing was there, just broke all the teeth off 3rd, and split the front of the case, even with a TKO "girdle" on it......... Seems the TKO is a good street trans, but not meant for abuse on the drag-strip with any significant power and/or vehicle weight. I've since gone with a GF-5R and it's been great at the strip, but it sucks not having the OD gear on the street.

[JamesonRacing]

I'm running a mostly stock TKO in my street car, runs 11.40s at 122, 12-inch McLeod diaphragm clutch package on an aluminum flywheel.  Lots of miles and passes, no issues, except third gear synchro is mad at me.  Sorry to read about the issues you're having.

[wowens]

Went through 3 TKO 600's. 1st one stock, 2nd two with all add on metal treatments and faceplates. Shelled 3rd gear all 3 times. Twin disc clutch on 3 shelled trannies with 28" MY  DOT slicks. It got expensive so I quit the dragstrip, I like my 5 speed on the street.

[MrT427]

66sevets,
Had the very same issue with axle studs and steel wheels. C-4, T-brake used here with 1.36 60' but still bent all the studs after two launches. Talked to Strange and they pointed out the steel wheels right away. Tapered lug and steel wheel has very little support for the stud and will try and cut it in two plus being too heavy. My 10" wheels weighed 32.5 lbs each bare. Strange also said a 5/8" stud may not be much better with steel wheels and that much power. Switched to Billet Specialties and a shanked lug and so far.....no more problems. Good Luck and LOVE your Comet.

[wayne]

Stuff sure has changed back when we raced we ran a 50 lb flywheel and a 9 bolt shaffer pressure plate.It was 3600 lbs i think it took two days to beef up the cross shaft all it did first time was bend.It was hell on your left leg but it never slipped

[66sevets]

I was checking here for FERR info since I couldn't make it this year and Just noticed a bunch of post here since the last time I looked. Interesting to see so many blown TKO's! I was at the Detroit Autorama and saw some Tremek reps with a cutaway TKO. Couldn't help but go over and show them photos, they showed me what happens. They said the counter shaft flexes and showed me why. The counter shaft is supported on the ends of the shaft nothing in the middle, combined with the rotational force of the gears at high rpm and a 650 hp FE motor, it flexes in the middle going into third, 7000 rpm for me, the force makes it try to jump a tooth and takes out the whole thing. I've since had my TKO rebuilt by Liberty and just hung it in the Comet yesterday. Went back to steel wheels with 10 x 30 Firestone pie crust cheater slicks. When I took the Weld wheels off and put the steel wheels on it was amazing how much heavier the steel wheels are! I am putting all the exhaust and street parts back on it and drive it on the street. I made it too heavy for launching it hard at the track. So no drag race crash box for this one but some easy runs and shifting at 6,500 won't hurt. But I got a 10.80 out of it with 28 in Street ET's! Should have not put the 30 inch slicks on it but I had fun! I think it would have run a 10.50 if the trans didn't blow! I need a dedicated race car. 

Thanks, Steve

[BattlestarGalactic]

Friend ran TKO for years.  Got into low 10's and suddenly it was not putting up anymore.  Same deal, shaft spreads and wipes stuff out.   Any transmission does this.  Thus Liberty and Gforce offer a solution for the old 5 spd(Nash style) boxes to hold the shafts together(either bearings or handcuff).   Just no real room in a TKO to do this, plus how it goes together.