Need help on ignition problem

[billtroth]

I put on a new MSD6AL box,  MSD billet distributor, and a Summit Racing (SUM-850615) High Output Ignition Coil and have been trying for three weeks to get the Galaxie started. I'm stumped but I am pretty sure it is an ignition problem.  When I turn over the motor I get one or two good sparks on  #1 plug and then no spark.  I have checked all of the wiring, spark test the box, get good lights at startup on the MSD box but no change. I suspected the coil and checked electrical resistance and got good 40,000 Ohms on the primary but only 328,000 ohms on the secondary which seems low. However I swapped out the coile with another coil that had about 400,000 ohms on the secondary and still the same. I had the light silver springs and the "black-heavy" bushing. in the distributor but changed them to the two "light blue" springs and still same problem.

If you can give me any information on what the problem is and how to solve it I would be grateful.  I sure hope to make at least a few passes this season but I'm running out of good weather.

[BattlestarGalactic]

Dang, Bill I thought we got it running at Beaver?

One thing to check.

Use the WHITE wire from the box and ground it once.  You should see a spark from the coil(pull wire and watch).   Every time you ground it, it should spark once.  This wire is used for points ignition, so grounding it fires the box.  If that works fine, then I would think the pickup coil in the distributor is at fault.  I have seen more then a fair share of those go bad, suddenly.  If it is, buy TWO.  Keep one handy for when it fails again.

[cjshaker]

Bill, I've had THREE pickups go bad in the last 2-3 years. All MSD stuff. I now carry a spare distributor AND a spare pickup in the car, along with a 1/2" wrench and the small wrench and allen wrench for the pickup. I'm not getting stranded again because of those things! When I did the spark check, sometimes they checked good, so I triple and quadruple checked my grounds, going so far as to run a separate ground straight to the battery, replaced the boxes twice, tried different coils, did every check under the sun, but the pickups were the problem every time.

[Falcon67]

Also, you can pull the distributor, latch on to the bottom with a portable drill and spin it with a plug laying on the intake or grounded to the motor somewhere.  I would agree, likely the mag pickup in the distributor.  I have not personally had any MSD pickups fail on me, but things happen.

[mbrunson427]

Just a dumb suggestion....but it's bitten me before. Make sure your battery is charged completely. The boxes will still work and light up if the battery starts to run low, but they do funky unpredictable things. I got on the phone with the MSD people and that's the first thing they suggested, I said yes yes yes it's not a battery problem, sure enough under about 10v the box would start to wonk out.

[BattlestarGalactic]

Good point.  I think we had to deal with that at Beaver.  Your battery was too low and we brought it over to my trailer and charged it up.  Yes, it may show 12v just sitting, but under load of starting it may be too low to fire the ignition.  If I recall, that is what I checked and the reason we charged it.

[billtroth]

Thanks to all for your comments.  I have been working when time permitted on this problem all week.  In the fifteen years I have had the car I never have been this stumped .  I have checked and double checked wiring: both visually for routing and solid connections and with a V.O.M. for continuity and voltage.  With respect to battery voltage the battery is fully charged and connected to a trickle charger.  I have digital voltmeters at the battery and on the dashboard and both show 13 to 14 volts.  There is "0" gauge welding cable connecting the battery from the trunk to a busbar for the hot positive connections and the negative ground is solidly connected to the engine block with a 3/8' copper stud.  Any extension of the wiring has been done with the MSD recommended 12 ga. for the black and red power wires and 16 ga..  I get 600 ohms resistance through the distributor magnetic pickup which is within the 500 - 700 ohms" recommended by MSD.  I ran out of time today to do more testing but will try and do dome tomorrow.  I am using the MSD website https://www.holley.com/support/troubleshooting_techniques/   as a guide and will make sure I have run every test I can to track down the problem. 
Thanks again to everyone that has responded to me original post.

[Yellow Truck]

My expertise is pretty thin compared to some who have replied, but I have experience with the MSD 6AL and an MSD "Ready to Run" billet distributor.

It ran for about 5 minutes, enough to get the idle to settle down and get far enough from the house that I couldn't push it back. Ran all the MSD tests and had a bad distributor (assumed it was the pickup).

Sent it back, got the strangest run around from MSD - yes it was bad, no they couldn't fix it because the had no parts, no the couldn't replace it because they didn't have any in stock, oh, there was nothing wrong with it and the sent it back.

Got it back, had my local garage put it in since I was having something else done, and it ran for about 8 minutes before it stranded me on a very busy road.

At this point I gave up and got an Ford style without points from Faron Rhoads. Sipped it in and have never looked back. BTW originally went with the MSD distributor because the old original style Ford distributor kept shifting the timing between starts. Dealing with MSD was like dealing with a schizophrenic.

[fekbmax]

The old analog msd boxes cope with lower battery voltage alot better than the digital boxes. 

[BattlestarGalactic]

Watch that battery voltage while you crank it.  Does it stay over 11v?  I think that is the cut off for MSD?  Something around that.  Even put a VOM on the MSD power line(not the switched wire, but the hot lead) and see if it stays up while cranking.

The battery may be charged, even with a trickle charger on it, it may be weak enough that it does not have enough capacity to keep the voltage high enough to run the MSD.   I know that is how we chased it down at Beaver.   I wasn't around when you loaded it, so can't recall if it started or if you pushed it in?

[My427stang]

I would assume your wiring is correct, but I just ran into this with someone I was helping

1 - Make sure your small red wire feed for the 6AL is getting power during crank. I would assume you checked it, but his ran with an old 6AL, but when he put a digital 6AL in he realized it wasn't getting spark. No changes to the wiring.  In his case, he had it wired to the ACCY circuit off the key, I had him end up feeding it off the I post of the solenoid and the RUN circuit off the switch like it would be from Ford.  To troubleshoot, I had him jump the small red wire directly to his to the battery to troubleshoot and it fired right up.

2 - Make sure somehow the white wire isn't grounding (if using the purple wire to trigger)

In the end, not much to wiring them.  Heavy wires get good ground and power, small red needs power during crank and run, then it connects to the distributor and coil, 2 wires each.  After that, any problem has to be component related or broken wire.

[cjshaker]

The pickup can 'check' good, but still not work. Been there, done that. Replace the pickup, at the worst you're out a few bucks but have a spare. It's the only way to know for sure.

Edit: As far as their test goes, even it won't tell you for sure. Check out this video I made when I was having problems. Jumping the pickup wires should ALWAYS produce a spark, right? Wrong....

https://youtu.be/85PLiA8qIr0

[jayb]

+1 on what Doug said, I have had an MSD pickup that measured the correct electrical resistance but it quit working.  I took it apart and found that the magnet that the wire in the pickup is wrapped around was cracked.  Not sure if this was the problem or not but a new pickup fixed the distributor.  Also, good advice from Larry, because if the starter draw is causing the battery voltage to drop too far, the box won't work.