Author Topic: Guess the horsepower game....  (Read 27911 times)

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HarleyJack17

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2018, 11:26:39 AM »
It's dyno day! Good luck and make some power! Somebody is about to win!

blykins

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2018, 03:12:51 PM »
Hold on, still working on it......
Brent Lykins
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blykins

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2018, 03:28:10 PM »
We put about 12 pulls on the 395 today. 

In the end, I was very pleased with the performance of it.  Even though it peaked at about 6200, it pulled to 6500 each time flawlessly, with no complaints from the valvetrain. 

One thing I want to note is that this is the first time I have used one of these Canton rear sump oil pans.  I was kinda gun shy about using it because I had heard of several guys losing oil pressure at the top of the pull.   But with a standard volume/standard pressure pump, ~150 degree oil temp, ~175 degree water temp, and 8 quarts of oil in the complete system, it gained oil pressure all the way to 6500 rpm, with 6500 rpm showing 77 psi of oil pressure.  This was with a snoot full of Valvoline VR1 10W-30, non-synthetic. 

So, I feel like I need to be up front in saying that the carb was a Q-750 instead of a Q-850.   However, I don't want everyone to think that their guesses were invalid because of that, because with a 1050 Dominator, it only gained 2 hp at peak. 

We started at 34° total timing and checked it at 36° and also 32°.  It liked 34° total.  Horsepower didn't change much between the 3, but the 34° produced the most average horsepower and the most peak torque. 

I was really happy with the way the engine performed.  Filter was clean and it made excellent horsepower and torque. 

So, for the moment you've all been waiting for....

Numbers with the Q-750:

            TQ     HP

3500    386    275
3750    394    281       
4000    402    306
4250    414    335
4500    426    365
4750    436    395
5000    443    421
5250    443    442
5500    430    451
5750    418    458
6000    405    463
6250    388    461
6500    369    457

So peak uncorrected horsepower was 463 hp @ 6000 with the Q-750 carb.

The winner of the game was.................................................SHADY

If you've ever wanted to try a 1050 Dominator on a 390, here's what you would see:

Peak uncorrected horsepower was 464 hp @ 6250.  Peak uncorrected torque was 443.

I think Jay is gonna come through and give us a "third-party" correction factor.  I know what the dyno was telling me today, but we'll let Jay be the "official" factor calculator.

Gratuitous Dominator photo! 

Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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502-759-1431
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63galnc

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2018, 04:09:02 PM »
Thanks Brent. Enjoyed the contest and the build. Always nice to see different builds and dyno results.

jayb

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #94 on: September 14, 2018, 04:10:54 PM »
I calculate the correction factor the same way that SuperFlow does with its dynos, so I will go through that here.  The correction factor takes the raw torque and HP numbers and corrects them to standard barometric pressure at sea level (29.92 inches of mercury) and 60 degrees Fahrenheit. 

First, I looked up the weather conditions for Buffalo, KY 42716 on the NOAA site.  I assume that these are close to the same for the dyno that Brent used.  NOAA reports the barometric pressure as 30.06, the dewpoint at 63 degrees, the relative humidity at 46%, and the temperature at 86 degrees Fahrenheit.  Using Google Earth, I went to Buffalo KY and found the altitude as 760 feet; again I assume that the dyno location is the same as this.

(Note:  Brent mentioned to me earlier that he was seeing 91 degrees for temperature; if that is accurate, then the numbers I got from the weather service could be different than what the weather actually was at the dyno.  The reason that most dynos have a weather station built in is to record the weather data at the same time as the engine is run on the dyno, so that the correction can be accurately calculated).

First we need to find vapor pressure from this information.  If you don't have the dewpoint, but do have the relative humidity and the air temperature (like most dynos), go to this site and move the sliders around to set air temp and relative humidity, and you will get the dewpoint:

http://www.dpcalc.org/

Next, with the dewpoint you can get the vapor pressure, at the National Weather Service site here:

https://www.weather.gov/epz/wxcalc_vaporpressure

A dewpoint of 63 degrees gives a vapor pressure of 0.58 inches of mercury. 

Now we need to find the actual barometric pressure, because all barometric pressures reported by the NOAA and the National Weather Service are corrected to sea level.  Barometric pressure is given in inches of mercury, and conveniently 1000 feet of altitude is almost exactly 1 inch of mercury in pressure.  So, at an altitude of 760 feet above sea level, the pressure will be lower by 0.760 inches of mercury.  This means that the actual barometric pressure at the dyno, assuming the weather data is accurate, is 30.06 - 0.760, or 29.30 inches of mercury.

Now we have everything we need to calculate the correction factor.  The formula is:

(Square Root of ((459.7 + T)/519.7)) X (29.92/(BP - VP)

where T is the temperature in Fahrenheit, BP is the barometric pressure, and VP is the vapor pressure.  Solving for the first term, (459.7 + 86)/519.7 is 1.050; the square root of that is 1.0247.  The second term is 29.92/(28.3 - 0.58), which is 1.0794.  Now multiplying the terms together, the correction factor is 1.106, or 10.6%.  So, uncorrected peak HP for Brent's engine is 463 HP, and corrected peak HP is 512.  Uncorrected peak torque is 443, and corrected peak torque is 490 lb-ft.

Pretty strong 390...

Edit:  OOPS!  A typo got me.  I originally had put 28.3 in the second term equation above, not 29.3.  Bad mistake.  The second term, with 29.3 used instead of 28.3, is 1.0418.  Now, multiplying the terms together you get a total correction factor of 1.0675, or 6.75%.  This means that corrected peak HP is 494, and corrected peak torque is 473.  Sorry guys... :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 12:00:41 AM by jayb »
Jay Brown
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- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

blykins

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2018, 04:29:44 PM »
Thank you Mr. Brown. 

The dyno corrected a few percent higher, but I have never been a fan of where the weather station is pulling data from with this particular dyno.  The engine is pulling shop air, but the shop is not air conditioned or cool air....it's just warm ambient air.   

It was indeed 91° outside when I was dyno'ing.  I would imagine that the shop was a few degrees cooler than that, but there again, there were no air conditioning units, or even any fans. 

We started at 11% correction factor, which jives with Jay's calculations, but as the day went on, the dyno here corrected to 14%.  So the dyno sheets show the engine making 538 hp with the 750 and 540 hp with the Dominator.   

Lots of numbers to throw out, I know......

But the bottom line is that Shady won the game and it is a pretty stout little 390.......not bad for a pump gas engine turning the water pump and alternator.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:32:20 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
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garyv

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #96 on: September 14, 2018, 04:50:23 PM »
That's a pretty stout 390 Brent. I overshot it by 20HP LOL.
I really like the hydraulic roller with non adjustable rocker setup.
Great job.

garyv

HarleyJack17

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #97 on: September 14, 2018, 04:58:14 PM »
A few of us were close. Glad it did more and good to hear it ran smooth and held on long. Definitely a strong package.  Are all the details going to be posted in the dyno section we hope?

fryedaddy

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #98 on: September 14, 2018, 06:17:25 PM »
i was 12 years old in 1975 when i got my first 390 fe experience. my dad bought a 63.5 Galaxy.first time i rode in it he kicked the four barrel in and passed 3 cars at the same time on a 2 lane road,i was a fe fan from then on.i have owned several 390s but never one that stout.i would have loved to had something like that back in the day to pick on sbc and mopars.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

cjshaker

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #99 on: September 14, 2018, 07:15:59 PM »
"Shady" is right, seeing as how he upped my guess by ONE horsepower to win. Those damn Price Is Right rules that you employed, Brent ;)
Doug Smith


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FElony

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2018, 07:26:11 PM »
Evidently, Brently, you chose not to heed my earlier command to assure my victory in this matter. I have only one thing to say: RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!

My427stang

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2018, 07:55:52 PM »
Well done, that'll be blast of a street/strip build. 
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1968galaxie

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2018, 07:57:34 PM »
Great looking engine!! Performed equally well.

The question I have - and maybe others is How does this TFS headed engine output compare to Barry's heads or BBM's or pocket ported Edelbrocks?
I am sure you may have examples of 390's (396) with a similar hydraulic roller and the other cylinder head offerings.

Would be interesting to have a comparison.

Again, well done!!! 

Can't wait for the 8000 rpm 390.

Cheers


69Shakar

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #103 on: September 14, 2018, 09:51:30 PM »
It would seem the hype about the trick flow heads might be valid although can’t understand why they missed the mark on the rocker pads.. I wonder what the output might be on a 445??  Maybe the massaging of the intake is the secret...... but it doesn’t matter cause it’s a damn fine engine..
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 10:33:08 PM by 69Shakar »

Machspeed

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Re: Guess the horsepower game....
« Reply #104 on: September 14, 2018, 11:03:31 PM »
I was 30hp off but it still looks like a fun motor for the street. Great build. What is it going in?