Author Topic: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)  (Read 4296 times)

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AlanCasida

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First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« on: August 18, 2018, 06:18:36 PM »
 took the Mustang for about a 30 mile road trip this afternoon and although it ran good I do see a problem...Drag Week wise. Keep in mind that is about 85 here today and overcast. Going down the road and driving through town the water temp hovered around 195-200...not too bad. When I got back home I purposely let it set idling for about 5 mins and the temp was up over 220 and when I pulled it into the shop it went up to around 230. Next I let it set for another 5 mins(engine off) to let the starter soak up some heat. It did start right up. I'm not sure what will happen when it might be 95 and sunny though. The issue I see for me is if I get caught in some monster traffic jam(like in Indianapolis year before last) my car might have a meltdown at the most inopportune moment. I think it will be a sweat box too and I will definitely need ear plugs but those I can deal with.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 07:32:20 PM by AlanCasida »

cjshaker

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2018, 07:07:48 PM »
Alan, just curious if you have an electric fan on it? I can't remember if you mentioned that before or not. An old trick of raising the back of the hood may also help a bit. Any way to let some of that hot air out.

The engine getting warm while sitting still reminds me of the story of the guy who went to the doctor and complained about his arm hurting when he raised it straight up, so the doctor told him "don't raise it straight up" ;)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

jayb

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 08:27:13 PM »
Alan, what temperature thermostat have you got in the engine?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

AlanCasida

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 08:38:42 PM »
I have an engine driven fan with a good shroud and a 180 deg thermostat. I have a Griffin cross flow radiator that has two 1 1/2" cores.  I have blocked the waterpump bypass that connects to the intake manifold and drilled seven 1/8" holes in the stat to let water pass through until it opens. I have my sender mounted right before the thermostat housing on the intake adapter and I noticed going down the highway the temp would sometimes fluctuate fairly fast between 190 & 200. It makes me wonder if it is always coming in full contact with the water and maybe giving me an erroneous reading. Also it is an Autometer mechanical gauge.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 09:09:25 PM by AlanCasida »

jayb

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 04:24:15 PM »
If that temp gauge is moving back and forth rapidly at times, you probably have some air left in the system.  With that thermostat and that radiator, going down the road you ought to be right at 180 (assuming the thermostat is working correctly).  Check the fluid level, with the engine running, and see if it drops down a bunch when you rev it up.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

My427stang

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 04:49:01 PM »
Type of fan matters too, once you get the gauge stable, fixed fans can move a lot of air
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

AlanCasida

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2018, 05:45:14 PM »
If that temp gauge is moving back and forth rapidly at times, you probably have some air left in the system.  With that thermostat and that radiator, going down the road you ought to be right at 180 (assuming the thermostat is working correctly).  Check the fluid level, with the engine running, and see if it drops down a bunch when you rev it up.
I checked it and it looked ok but I didn't rev it up. I'll double check that. It wasn't filled to the top but I've always been told to leave some room for expansion. I could fill it up closer to the top and see what happens. It was raining all day today so I didn't get a chance to drive it. I did pull the t-stat housing just to be sure I had it in the right direction(it was) and I've spent the rest of my time working on my trailer.

My427stang

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 05:54:27 PM »
If that temp gauge is moving back and forth rapidly at times, you probably have some air left in the system.  With that thermostat and that radiator, going down the road you ought to be right at 180 (assuming the thermostat is working correctly).  Check the fluid level, with the engine running, and see if it drops down a bunch when you rev it up.
I checked it and it looked ok but I didn't rev it up. I'll double check that. It wasn't filled to the top but I've always been told to leave some room for expansion. I could fill it up closer to the top and see what happens. It was raining all day today so I didn't get a chance to drive it. I did pull the t-stat housing just to be sure I had it in the right direction(it was) and I've spent the rest of my time working on my trailer.

Assuming it's a side tank, they don't need nearly the room the old top tank design needed.  Fill it up, it'll find it's own level :)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cjshaker

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2018, 08:55:11 PM »
I've always filled my stuff up to within a 1/2" of the bottom of the neck and never had expansion issues, including in the Mach. I would have checked that thermostat in a pot of water on the stove, with a thermometer. It wouldn't be the first time I've seen one act weird by not opening up at rated temp, or not open up all the way. Although, like Jay said, air hitting the probe is the only reason I could see the temp fluctuating rapidly on the gauge. Why did you block the bypass?
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2018, 10:20:59 PM »
Why did you block the bypass?
It's something I tried back when I had my '89 Mustang with a 460 in it trying to get it to stay cool. l I don't know if it made any difference for sure but I didn't like the idea of hot water circulating right back into the engine. Although if the thermostat is open it probably just goes out to the radiator anyway.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 10:23:22 PM by AlanCasida »

AlanCasida

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 07:31:24 PM »
Ok I got a new t-stat, moved the temp sensor to the waterpump bypass port on the intake, jacked the front of the car as high as I could get with I refilled the radiator and it still bounces between 190-200 driving down the highway 60mph @ 2600 rpm. This was within 4 miles. It's 78 deg out so with the monster radiator I have it shouldn't run that hot...that soon. I was thinking about this today and this may be a symptom of a larger issue. I dug out the sonic map of my block and it is pretty thin...especially on the non thrust sides. I don't know how thin is too thin but my cooling system may be doing all it can. I don't think I had this issue when I had it in my Galaxie but I had an electric gauge in it that may have responded slower and I was running about 9:1 compression where as now with my TF heads and thin head gaskets I am running right at 11:1. I have included a copy of my sonic map to see what you guys think. Keep in mind this is something I drew out at work over the phone.  ::) Also #6 cylinder had a sleeve in it that gave them an erroneous reading(it was replaced too) and this was taken before it was bored to 4.25". It was standard. 
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 07:33:52 PM by AlanCasida »

jayb

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 08:15:40 PM »
Hmmm, I've got one thinner than that and it doesn't get hot.  I'm thinking its something else.  A couple things you might try is to put some race gas in it and see if that cools it down (this would indicate a detonation issue), or swap water pumps; sometimes the impellers can come loose and you won't know it.  You have a spring in the lower radiator hose so that it won't collapse under suction, I assume?
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

AlanCasida

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 08:21:57 PM »
Hmmm, I've got one thinner than that and it doesn't get hot.  I'm thinking its something else.  A couple things you might try is to put some race gas in it and see if that cools it down (this would indicate a detonation issue), or swap water pumps; sometimes the impellers can come loose and you won't know it.  You have a spring in the lower radiator hose so that it won't collapse under suction, I assume?
Yes I do have spring in the lower hose. An odd thing I noticed was it will try to collapse the upper hose when I rev it up. I've never seen anything of mine do that before. That is, it will do that until it gets really warm and the hose has a lot of pressure on it.

Nightmist66

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 08:55:26 PM »
Usually when the upper hose collapses, it is from a bad radiator cap not allowing it to vent(air, or coolant if recirculating system).

The bypass is a good idea I think if you are not running a heater core. Any time there is a heater core, I like to block the water pump/intake bypass because I don't have to fiddle with that stupid little hose and the heater core acts as a bypass anyway.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:58:34 PM by Nightmist66 »
Jared



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TimeWarpF100

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 11:36:56 PM »
took the Mustang for about a 30 mile road trip this afternoon and although it ran good I do see a problem...Drag Week wise. Keep in mind that is about 85 here today and overcast. Going down the road and driving through town the water temp hovered around 195-200...not too bad. When I got back home I purposely let it set idling for about 5 mins and the temp was up over 220 and when I pulled it into the shop it went up to around 230. Next I let it set for another 5 mins(engine off) to let the starter soak up some heat. It did start right up. I'm not sure what will happen when it might be 95 and sunny though. The issue I see for me is if I get caught in some monster traffic jam(like in Indianapolis year before last) my car might have a meltdown at the most inopportune moment. I think it will be a sweat box too and I will definitely need ear plugs but those I can deal with.

Have you ever tried Redline Water Wetter? I have found it really works. Not that is a CURE but worth a try.  I have never had good luck cooling with thin cylinders.

Barry_R

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2018, 05:06:48 AM »
I would reconnect the bypass.  I wonder if that thermostat alone is restricting flow compared to the pump output.

Stangman

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2018, 09:40:33 AM »
Don’t Chrysler have a thermostat that is the same size as ours only the center
Part that opens is bigger. I’m thinking maybe the one for the 440s. I have a griffin
Crossflow with two 1 1/4 tubes but with the two 11inch fans. Do you have the frame notched
on one side or did you get the big radiator and have to notch both sides. If you did maybe that single fan ain’t enough to pull the full length of the radiator, I believe that core alone is 27 inches.

Katz427

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Re: First road trip analysis for the Mustang (update 8/21/18)
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2018, 09:54:14 AM »
 When someone would come in and we would find the upper hose collapsing, or trying to, the head of the shop would first replace the radiator cap, as another response said. If that did not solve the problem, then he looked for a restriction, usually a plugged radiator. I remember one time, I pulled the radiator on a 1966 Mustang, (radiator looked great) and found that the coolant had turned to "jello" in the bottom tank. Only saw that a couple times in cars that sat around alot. Something is restricting flow, Barry might be right about running the bypass.