Author Topic: 66 Comet drag car  (Read 4942 times)

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Jim Comet

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66 Comet drag car
« on: July 05, 2018, 10:26:11 AM »
I am making slow progress on my car as my budget allows. I am having Blair put together a 390 based 416 with a steel crank, Molnar rods, CP custom pistons, his pro port heads, baby solid roller cam and the new Trick Flow or my Performer RPM intake depending on which performs better. I am guessing it will make 550+ hp. I have locked the timing out per Blairs suggestion and this will be a drag only car so the converter will flash past any advance curve it would have had. Does anyone have any experience with the MSD starter saver? Are you pulling 10 or 20 degrees out when starting? My transmission is a C6 with the Motorsports low ratio planetary and needle bearing kit. Are there any components that that I should look to change for durability sake at the expected higher hp levels. The trans had the D servo and F lever in it along with good and extra clutches. Does anyone know of someone in the Twin Cities area with experience in building/rebuilding these transmissions with the needle bearings? I am nervous about trying it myself knowing the clearance are critical on the needle bearing setups. Here is a picture of the Car and the passenger side header I built. The headers are 1 7/8 transitioning to 2 inch into a 3 inch collector. Thanks, Jim
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 09:40:19 PM by Jim Comet »

My427stang

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 10:35:50 AM »
I haven't used one, but assuming it'll be a pretty stout engine and locked around 34 degrees, I'd pull out 20.  That puts it at a very normal 14 for hot starting between rounds and as soon as you release the key it should go right back to locked amount.

A second option would be to just have the ignition wired on another switch and get it cranking and flip the ignition on, but I sort of like the "normal operation" using the key with your plan

Your tranny should have all it needs IMHO
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cjshaker

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 10:38:48 AM »
I don't know anything about those auto-matic thingys, but you sure did a nice job on that header.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
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gt350hr

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 11:50:14 AM »
   Jim ,
      I converted my own C6 to the low gear setup. I had "most" but not all of the parts. (I didn't get the complete kit). I bought what I was missing , down loaded the Ford racing instructions , opened the Shop manual to the C6 section , and went at it. It was actually pretty easy in retrospect.
   +2 Nice job on the headers!!!!
   Randy

FElony

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2018, 02:09:12 PM »
   Jim ,
      I converted my own C6 to the low gear setup. I had "most" but not all of the parts. (I didn't get the complete kit). I bought what I was missing , down loaded the Ford racing instructions , opened the Shop manual to the C6 section , and went at it. It was actually pretty easy in retrospect.
   +2 Nice job on the headers!!!!
   Randy

What are you two guys going run for rear gears?

FElony

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 02:12:21 PM »
...and the drivers side header I built.

Nice work, but I'll pay big bux to watch you install that on the driver side.   ;)

57 lima bean

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 02:24:38 PM »
Jim...I had Shepard Transmissions do two low gear C6's for me.There is a steel on steel issue that he dealt with by machining and using a C4 converter bushing you may want to talk with him about.Car is looking good.....pm me.

thatdarncat

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2018, 02:46:16 PM »
   I've built two C6's using the Motorsports wide ratio roller bearing kits, they are pretty straight forward and complete, but I will note one thing - the instructions in mine said to use forward clutch drum E9TZ-7A360-A, which is machined and clearanced for the roller bearing assembly, instead of the forward drum the earlier C6's used with the solid thrust bearings. The problem though is the E9TZ-7A360-A drum had been discontinued by Ford a few years earlier and replaced by a F81Z-7A360-AA forward drum. The F81Z-AA drum will not work with the kit because it does not hold the C6 input shaft in the proper place ( it allows it to slide rearward ).  I was able to have my Ford dealer locate a couple obsolete new drums using their locator service, but that was quite a few years ago now, I don't know if there are still any out there, sourcing a good used E9TZ-A drum may be the only option ( which is fine ), or it may be possible to machine the pocket deeper on the earlier C6 forward drum. I don't remember off the top of my head if the instructions had advice on that, it may have. Otherwise the Motorsports kit assembled fine, everything fit fine, and there were no issues. The final geartrain endplay still needs to be checked & set, but that is done as normal with the selective #1 thrust washer, and you may need to obtain the one you need from a transmission parts supply business if you don't have a selection on hand, but they are easily purchased.

As far as any other things to do, do you know how many Reverse-High ( Direct ) clutches your current drum holds? I usually use a 5 clutch drum myself. 5 clutch Reverse-High ( Direct ) drums were used in some high torque C6's stock, and are available from most of the Transmission supply businesses. Ford Motorsports used to have one available too, but it has sadly been discontinued. One was for sale on the forum here recently, but was snapped up quick.

I've used "H" servo's in my C6's, some already had the "H" servo, or I've been able to find some used ones when needed. They have functioned fine, but I'm not pushing an extreme amount of power.

Do you know what year C6 transmission case you have? The '66- to somewhere in '69 C6 case used splash oiling for the one-way clutch at the back of the geartrain and was prone to failure. Starting in '69 Ford switched to a pressure oiled one-way clutch. It's very easy to convert an earlier C6 case to the pressure oiling, and the Motorsports wide ratio roller bearing kit comes with the proper pressured oiled one-way clutch inner race, if you have an earlier case let me know and I can detail what needs to be done, if you have a later case it will be set for the pressure oiled one-way clutch already. Even if someone isn't doing a performance C6 build it's well worth updating to the pressured oiled one-way clutch, almost every old pre-'69 C6 I've worked on had a failed one way clutch, or was on it's way to failing. 

I always check the pump gears and replace if needed, they are relatively cheap. I always have a new convertor bushing installed in the pump too. I generally have my mechanic buddy BradFord install the pump bushing because even professional transmission shops don't seem to know the proper direction to install it ( the bushing has an oiling slot ) and if done the wrong direction it can result in seal failure at some point.

Jim I'd be happy to give you some help if needed, but I won't be able to until August, I don't know what your time table is, just let me know.
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V

Jim Comet

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2018, 02:47:18 PM »
"Nice work, but I'll pay big bux to watch you install that on the driver side.   ;)"

No shock towers should help. The drivers side has to go in in pieces as it goes around the steering shaft for my rear steer rack & Pinion.

FElony

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2018, 03:00:10 PM »
"Nice work, but I'll pay big bux to watch you install that on the driver side.   ;)"

No shock towers should help. The drivers side has to go in in pieces as it goes around the steering shaft for my rear steer rack & Pinion.

Isn't that a passenger side header?

shady

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2018, 03:25:22 PM »
turbo headers.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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Jim Comet

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2018, 03:48:08 PM »
"Nice work, but I'll pay big bux to watch you install that on the driver side.   ;)"

No shock towers should help. The drivers side has to go in in pieces as it goes around the steering shaft for my rear steer rack & Pinion.

Isn't that a passenger side header?
You are correct. I am hoping I can install that side to the motor and install it with the engine/trans assembly.

FElony

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2018, 03:58:37 PM »
"Nice work, but I'll pay big bux to watch you install that on the driver side.   ;)"

No shock towers should help. The drivers side has to go in in pieces as it goes around the steering shaft for my rear steer rack & Pinion.

Isn't that a passenger side header?
You are correct. I am hoping I can install that side to the motor and install it with the engine/trans assembly.

OK, let's review. You said it was a driver's side header. It is obviously a passenger header, which is why I kiddingly said that I'd like to see you put THAT header on the driver's side. Get it?

Jim Comet

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2018, 04:02:00 PM »
Kevin, my transmission was built with the M-7398-F kit and I believe the number 1 thrust washer was replaced with a needle bearing also. The trans guy had to do some machining to install the #1 bearing. The guys name was Jim and he ran a small shop in Elk River out of his garage called Perfective Performance transmission but unfortunately he move out east.

Steve, I currently have a babbit pump bushing in my pump. I had some converter hub issues until I switched to the babbit style bushing which eliminated my problems.

So the transmission has about 500 passes on it and about 2000 street miles. It worked fine when I took it out. Does a guy rebuild it to play it safe or would you run it? Jim

Jim Comet

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 04:03:59 PM »
Felony, I get it now! This 4th of July in Delano took a lot out of me. I'll try and pay better attention starting tomorrow. Jim

FElony

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2018, 04:15:45 PM »
FElony, I get it now! This 4th of July in Delano took a lot out of me. I'll try and pay better attention starting tomorrow. Jim

Well, OK then. I was starting to doubt my own sanity, as it was 115º with a 124º heat index while I was running around the yard a couple hours ago checking out wheel well mouldings, which I didn't know until I got back in and checked the local weather. I'm like, "Gee, it's a tad stifling out here today". I actually had to think about that header a minute. Don't forget about the gear question above, please. Thanks.

Jim Comet

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2018, 04:28:47 PM »
   Jim ,
      I converted my own C6 to the low gear setup. I had "most" but not all of the parts. (I didn't get the complete kit). I bought what I was missing , down loaded the Ford racing instructions , opened the Shop manual to the C6 section , and went at it. It was actually pretty easy in retrospect.
   +2 Nice job on the headers!!!!
   Randy

What are you two guys going run for rear gears?
As far as gears go I am going to run a 4.11 with my 28x9" slicks. With the 2.72 first gear I thought I might overpower the 9 inch slick if I went to a steeper gear. I am also going to use my 3400 converter which will probably stall a little higher with the longer stroke and more powerful engine. This converter will stall to low to be optimum for the new engines power band but it is just a bracket car and it may help me hook up. I will get a new converter matched to the power band of the new motor after my wallet heals a little and see if I can get it to hook. If after I get the new converter I can still get consistent traction I will move to a deeper gear to better use the 7000 rpm power band. Jim

thatdarncat

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 04:35:22 PM »
With the wide ratio kit already installed there shouldn't be any issues rebuilding the transmission, it's pretty straight forward, and just the usual check of condition of the components should be good. I wouldn't expect any issues with the parts or clearances, assuming things were good when last assembled, with that amount of use, but always good to check.

When I was bracket racing more often I asked the convertor company how often I should send my convertor in to be freshened, and they recommended about every 300 passes, with my combo - a 3400 lb car running 11.50-12.00 ET's and foot braking. The one time I tried stretching it out until the end of a season ( since I hadn't been having any issues ), about 400 passes, I had a convertor failure, so I went back to adhering to their advice. I know lots of people that rarely ever send their convertor in, and seem to get lucky, but that never seems to be me. And some of those people never seem to win either. When you are trying to be competitive and consistent I always found keeping the stuff maintained helps. At the same time I would send the convertor in to be freshened I would freshen the C6 with new seals, convertor bushing, band, Sealing rings, and at least new Reverse-High clutches. The Reverse-High clutches & steels were usually the only thing showing wear and heat issues, the governor distributor sealing rings also usually showed wear. Everything else got inspected and replaced as needed. Occasionally I would have to replace a one-way clutch, planetary, drum, etc. the seals always looked good, but they are cheap to replace, and they take some abuse from heat. I eventually built two identical C6's and had two identical convertors, so I would just swap each time and rebuild without having to be rushed.

There are a few places in the cities most of the racers seem to use, but I've always done my own, so I don't have any first hand recommendation. 

*Edited to add: I usually run a 4500 stall 10" race convertor.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 04:51:35 PM by thatdarncat »
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V

FElony

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 08:22:57 PM »
A couple years ago I noticed that one of the better converter manufacturers (I think it was Edge) was selling low-to-high stall, you pick value, custom made from new 9-inch diameter cases. On eBay. Failed to find this now. But, in theory, wouldn't a smaller TC decrease rotational mass and make for a better choice?

KMcCullah

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2018, 10:18:56 AM »
So the transmission has about 500 passes on it and about 2000 street miles. It worked fine when I took it out. Does a guy rebuild it to play it safe or would you run it? Jim

The last time I ordered C6 parts from Broader, we got to talking about how tough a stock C6 really was. He told me back in the 80's he was building nearly stock C6's and adapting them to 540 Rodecks for the monster truck guys. Besides adding clutches, I think the input shaft was the biggest change he made.

I'd run that C6 as is. Sounds like it's been reliable for you. 
Kevin McCullah


fryedaddy

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2018, 04:42:41 PM »
So the transmission has about 500 passes on it and about 2000 street miles. It worked fine when I took it out. Does a guy rebuild it to play it safe or would you run it? Jim


i had my c6 built in 1984 for my 428 66 comet.it has 30-40 thousand street miles on it plus a few hundred passes and im still waiting for it to tear up. im going back to a 4 speed if and when it ever breaks.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

gdaddy01

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Re: 66 Comet drag car
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2018, 05:54:06 PM »
take the drain plug out , while you can still mash a clutch pedal .