Author Topic: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal  (Read 4221 times)

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Pentroof

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3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« on: July 13, 2018, 12:05:06 PM »
I added a 95 amp 3G upgrade to my 1970 F100, but didn't want to run dual v-belts or a serpentine. The belt squeals at startup for about 10 seconds. This motor is also driving power steering and A/C, and that's what's driving the desire to stay with a single belt and ironically also enabling the fix for the squeal.

I added an idler pulley to change the exit angle from the alternator, causing more wrap on the alternator pulley. I was able to do this because I am using a custom A/C bracket being sold by a guy on the Fordification forum that mounts the A/C compressor low on the passenger side. I simply drilled a hole in that bracket and mounted the idler. If you're not using this bracket and have a similar squeal issue on startup, you could probably fab your own bracket from a simple plate.

I was going to post a couple pics, but GoDaddy is currently having some server issues. I did post the info with some pics on this guy's classified ad though. I figured I was safe posting here in the general tech forum, since I'm not selling the thing, just an idea that is enabled by it.


Belt is silent.


http://fordification.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=748633&sid=b34fff9d1ed2b2ad6b73b155fb5b33b8#p748633


Jim

Pentroof

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2018, 04:38:55 PM »
GoDaddy got their server back on line.

This is the idler installed
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This is the idler
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Final result (A/C compressor belt isn't on yet)
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Jim

machoneman

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2018, 05:13:03 PM »
Very cool installation!
Bob Maag

TorinoBP88

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2018, 10:17:39 AM »
 Cool. But keep a spare belt with you on trips. Think v belts don't last as long as sepentine belts when being bent back and forth.

Lenz

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 08:52:09 AM »
Cool. But keep a spare belt with you on trips. Think v belts don't last as long as sepentine belts when being bent back and forth.
Late to the party, agree on both counts, cool and v-belt flex.  It's true that most automotive v-belts do not like (or simply can't take) being flexed the wrong way.  There is a possible solution though, and that's to use a v-belt originally designed for use on a mower deck.  The correct length and width you would need are quite possibly shelf items.  Those belts are made to operate under high load and to flex in both directions.  Just a thought and never had to try it myself, but if belt life becomes an issue it's worth a shot-
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick

Falcon67

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 10:24:20 AM »
Nicely done.  All my 3G installs use a 6 rib belt.  No problems even when racing.

BigBlueIron

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 10:26:09 AM »
Thinking out loud, wouldn't you have been able to use a double alt pulley with a extra long belt on the inside to go around crank, wp, alt, and a/c? With a standard length on the second sheave. Tension the alt and then tension the a/c compressor. Or even two long belts? Maybe your a/c pulleys don't line up on both sheaves, they must not. Its hard to tell in the photo.

The setup you made will most likely work great (looks good too) but it is much harder on v belts wrapping on the back side. But is done all the time to ensure enough belt wrap.

Lenz is correct, mower belts are some of the best made. Kevlar wrap makes a big difference in life.

drdano

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 12:44:44 PM »
Nicely done.  All my 3G installs use a 6 rib belt.  No problems even when racing.

Not to sidetrack this post, but which pulleys are you using?  I'm using a double v on my 428 and it will definitely squeal if the battery is low and the alternator is charging at full power.  Case in point, left the fans on manually on accident while eating tacos.  Post taco engine started...barely, everyone got to listen to my belts sing down the block.

Lenz

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 02:08:15 PM »
Nicely done.  All my 3G installs use a 6 rib belt.  No problems even when racing.

Not to sidetrack this post, but which pulleys are you using?  I'm using a double v on my 428 and it will definitely squeal if the battery is low and the alternator is charging at full power.  Case in point, left the fans on manually on accident while eating tacos.  Post taco engine started...barely, everyone got to listen to my belts sing down the block.
Just another reason why I avoid tacos ;D  With that aside I had to put a double pulley from Summit on my F100 to gain charging traction, I'm only seeing about 1/3 diameter contact at the pulley so 2/3 total on the two belts.  Stopped the squealing but the hardest job I had in the process was "matching" a set of belts.  I'm running 1 Gates and 1 Dayco I shopped to fit.  Two of the same part number from the same lot by the same manufacturer weren't even close to the same length.  Could have ordered a matched set but where's the fun in that?
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick

BigBlueIron

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 02:12:13 PM »
Quote
I'm running 1 Gates and 1 Dayco I shopped to fit.  Two of the same part number from the same lot by the same manufacturer weren't even close to the same length.  Could have ordered a matched set but where's the fun in that?

Sadly matched belts don't really exist anymore.

C6AE

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2018, 12:12:11 AM »
You can buy "banded" v-belts which are two or more belts molded together. I have had good luck with these, they work. You can also buy v-belts made for reversing the bend, called "double angle v-belts", the idler can be another v-groove pulley.
look here; https://www.vbelts4less.com/V-Belt-Specs_ep_45.html

Note* that I always try to buy Gates belts. With a fleet of vehicles I have been "through the ringer" with unreliable belts and I now think that Gates is a superior product.

Falcon67

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2018, 11:00:41 AM »
Not to sidetrack this post, but which pulleys are you using?  I'm using a double v on my 428 and it will definitely squeal if the battery is low and the alternator is charging at full power.  Case in point, left the fans on manually on accident while eating tacos.  Post taco engine started...barely, everyone got to listen to my belts sing down the block.

Sorry - any 6 rib I run are SBF or 351C - using stock crank and alternator with a March WP pulley.  Unless using an electric pump, then only the crank and alternator.  Unfortunately, don't see any 6 rib units for FEs.  https://marchperformance.com/ford/ford-big-block/pulleys.html  unless you buy a whole kit.  They might sell an individual part from those kits. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 11:04:29 AM by Falcon67 »

cjshaker

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2018, 11:50:49 AM »
You can buy "banded" v-belts which are two or more belts molded together. I have had good luck with these, they work. You can also buy v-belts made for reversing the bend, called "double angle v-belts", the idler can be another v-groove pulley.
look here; https://www.vbelts4less.com/V-Belt-Specs_ep_45.html


I'm guess the reason they don't make "Classic Cogged Wedge Double Angle Banded V Belts" is because it would be too expensive to print all that on the packaging..lol
And if something is "Anti-static Resistant", does that mean it's prone to static? ??? :o :P ::)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Lenz

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2018, 12:29:24 PM »
Getting dangerously close to old George Carlin word play material ;D  Like, "at the airport they told me to get on the plane and I said, **c* you, I'm getting in!    Let the daredevils get on!"
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick

jayb

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Re: 3G alternator with single v-belt and no squeal
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2018, 05:06:38 PM »
Not to sidetrack this post, but which pulleys are you using?  I'm using a double v on my 428 and it will definitely squeal if the battery is low and the alternator is charging at full power.  Case in point, left the fans on manually on accident while eating tacos.  Post taco engine started...barely, everyone got to listen to my belts sing down the block.

Sorry - any 6 rib I run are SBF or 351C - using stock crank and alternator with a March WP pulley.  Unless using an electric pump, then only the crank and alternator.  Unfortunately, don't see any 6 rib units for FEs.  https://marchperformance.com/ford/ford-big-block/pulleys.html  unless you buy a whole kit.  They might sell an individual part from those kits.

You can buy a six rib crank pulley from March that will fit an FE.  I use that setup on my race car and the belt never squeals.  I run the belt directly from the crank pulley to the alternator, no water pump involved because I run an electric pump.

By the way, I think Pentroof's idler solution is really cool...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC