Getting started for Drag Week 2018

[cjshaker]

Taking an early break after a long couple of days and nights.

I had a productive and good day today, but not without its moments of worry and problems. I got everything finished and ready to start the engine at about 2:00. I filled the tranny with 6 quarts, with another 3 ready to add as soon as the engine was running.

Well, the engine fired immediately and ran perfect right from the get-go...for about 15 seconds, when I suddenly heard a grinding sound. That kinda freaked me out, so I looked everything over carefully but couldn't find anything wrong. Everything turned free and there were no witness marks on anything to show any metal to metal contact. I went through this 3 times, and every time it started to grind after about 10+ seconds. And I mean a loud, stomach curdling grinding. I finally slid under the car and could see some fine dust inside the bellhousing, and then I could see the teeth on the flexplate had been hitting against something. A slow turn of the engine showed that all the torque convertor nuts looked fine and I could see no other issues. I figured it had to be the starter at that point, but why after 10 seconds of running? At first I thought maybe the bendix was creeping out and engaging the ring gear, but that is just odd and not something I've ever heard of before. I started to pull the starter out when I thought about checking the solenoid, to see if somehow it was sticking, which still didn't make sense after 10 seconds of being unpowered.

I did a check with a test light and found something odd. The "Start" circuit was getting power just fine, then disengaging when I turned the key to the run position, but when I checked the "Ignition" circuit, I found that it was getting power in the run position, although it was fairly dim, so I don't think it was getting a full 12 volts. After thinking about it a minute, I came to the conclusion that after the engine started, the "Ignition" circuit was energizing the solenoid and engaging it with less than a 12 volt coil voltage. That would explain why the grinding started kinda soft, then got worse quickly. It was slowly engaging the bendix. At least that's my theory. I disconnected the "Ignition" wire from the solenoid and the problem went away. I don't know why it's feeding voltage back to the "Ignition" circuit, but at least I had figured out the issue.

Having that semi-settled, I was checking the engine out as I filled the tranny with another 3 quarts of fluid. There were zero leaks, nothing odd, no weird noises and the temp was holding rock steady at 180, the exact temp of the thermostat I put in it. It was 85 here today, so the new radiator, shroud and flex fan seemed to be doing a nice job. The oil pressure was fantastic, with 75 lbs cold, and it never went below 50 when it was hot and idling. That made me happy. With this old short block, I wanted good pressure to feed those stock bearings, and the Melling HV pump was performing great. I used Shell Rotella 15w-40 and I'll probably run that during Drag Week because of the heat down south. I did have a couple issues with the carb; one being that I noticed fuel seeping from the spacer, towards the rear of the carb. It was flooding the engine in the secondaries after I would shut the engine off, making it hard to start again if you waited a minute or two. I could see fuel spilling out of the boosters after shutoff. That explained why my idle adjustment screws weren't doing anything either, which was the other problem I had. Still, it seemed to run great, so I concentrated on other things for the time being.
Here's a shot of my gauges after being fully warmed up after a little drive, sitting and idling. That's the highest the temp gauge has gone.



After nit-picking over everything, checking the timing etc, I took it for a short drive. It drove nice, responded well to throttle adjustments, didn't pull when the brakes were applied and just generally drove like a nice '65 Galaxie should. The temp never went over 185 and the oil pressure went up to 65+ at speed. I stopped at my Dads and took him for a short ride, which he got a huge kick out of. He loves these old cars as much as we do, if not more.

After getting back home, I checked everything over good and didn't find any issues at all. The fuel seeping seemed to go away, and my idle screws were working now, so I think it was a stuck float needle on the secondaries that freed up at some point. Ya gotta love it when things fix themselves!   I took it for a couple more drives, and again no issues came up. The car seemed to be settling in good, so I decided to work on some wiring issues, like no turn signals or running lights on the right side only. I also finished wiring up my tach. I started it every so often and each time it fired instantly and ran beautifully.

Here's a couple shots of the engine compartment completely done and ready to go....as of now anyway. As I mentioned to Joe, I took the time to really detail the engine and paint everything up nice, so if it won't be fast, at least it'll look decent.





And here's a short video of it running. My phones sound recording makes the engine seem a bit noisey, but it's actually pretty quiet.
https://youtu.be/qvOh56Nxsik

It's nice to finally have this thing hitting the pavement again. It needs a darn good cleaning though!



Tomorrow I'll be getting back on the wiring and taking it for a longer drive, assuming I get the turn signal issue fixed, and I'll probably change the oil to look for anything odd. I put a bottle of Crane break-in lube in it just to be on the safe side on the initial start-up.  Hopefully it'll be an eventless day with no major issues coming up!

[Stangman]

Excellent Doug love the valve covers and sounds Purdy. Glad your dad got a kick out of it.
Geez Doug I don’t want to put the whammy on ya but it looks like you may have a day or two
to rest up!!!. With all the hard work I’m hoping you do.

[My427stang]

Looking and sounding great!

The solenoid backfeed engagement has me stumped, internal to the solenoid, that circuit should be open when it retracts.  In other words, power to the I terminal in run should meet no connection and do nothing. 

In fact, power to that wire is logical and especially because it was dim because they backfeed through the resistor wire as originally both fed the positive side of the coil with no diode or anything.  (I terminal temporarily fed coil with 12V from solenoid, run circuit went through resistor wire, but both fed + side of the coil) However, clearly the solenoid didn't like it because it didn't engage anymore after you unhooked it. 

I'd have to say internal solenoid problem, any chance you have the old one to try?  If the car starts, no requirement for the I circuit, but I want to know now

[KMcCullah]

Sounds great Doug! Riding with dad in an FE powered hotrod is always a special time.

 The grinding issue made me think you found your lost torque converter nut. But instead a strange electrical issue. How healthy is the ignition switch? Seems like something is slowly lighting the solenoid circuit?

Edit: After reading Jay's comment about the resistor possibly loosing it's rating and letting excessive voltage through. Could the voltage regulator be letting elevated voltage pass? I've had several recent issues with an old point style voltage regulator.

[jayb]

Great diagnostic job on the solenoid problem, would've taken me days to find that.  Try a new solenoid, I don't think it should be engaging with the reduced power from the ignition circuit.  Or else, check the voltage while running on the ignition circuit, maybe the resistor wire isn't reducing the voltage as much as it should.

[My427stang]

The solenoid shouldn't be engaging from the I terminal, even if it was at 18 volts.   It's a mechanical connection that happens when the electro-mechanical solenoid engages and it is triggered by the S terminal.   That circuit is an "outie" LOL when the solenoid retracts to its "normally open" status without 12V to the S terminal, there is no place from the ignition side for power to go.

My guess something inside that solenoid is crossed up or a chunk of broken wire/metal shavings.  Easy way to check is sitting there static, put an Ohmmeter from the I terminal to the S terminal, if there is a connection, it's bad. The tween should never meet unless the solenoid is powered by the S terminal

[cjshaker]

Jay, I changed the solenoid as soon as I figured out there was an issue there. It may or may not have been part of the cause, but I have several new ones around, so it got changed out. What resistor wire are you talking about? The only resistor wire that should be on the car is the one going to the coil, which is bypassed during the start mode. I can check the ignition voltage while running, but even if the voltage was excessive, I'm not sure how that would cause it to backfeed into the solenoid. It should be a mechanical connection during the start mode only, by way of the ignition switch. That's why I mentioned that it may be an ignition switch issue....possibly. However, I don't discount any possibility at this point. One thing my electrical experience tells me is that when you're having problems tracking down an issue, you always have to expect the unexpected and look at things that you'd think would have no cause/effect relation.

The solenoid shouldn't be engaging from the I terminal, even if it was at 18 volts.

Lots of things happen that shouldn't happen, Ross While I agree with your statement, the I terminal shouldn't be getting power in the run position either. That was with both connections unhooked, checking each wire with a test light. That could be a problem with the ignition switch, or it might be a ground issue somewhere. Bad or weak grounds can cause problems that will have you scratching your head for days about things that "shouldn't happen".

I honestly don't know what is causing the issue, but at this point I have other things to take care of that are more important. When I get the chance, I'll track down the issue. I will probably go ahead and run a dedicated ground from the battery to the cab of the car, just for the heck of it. Not to the chassis, because a chassis ground can get lost between the cab and chassis if things are corroded, and that can cause issues with all your grounds under the dash etc.

The other issue I had, with no turn signals or running lights on the right side, turned out to be 2 different problems. The first problem was that there was no tail light bulb in the rear Don't ask me why, because I don't remember removing it, but I know the tailights worked when I drove it 8 years ago. Somebody must have broke into my garage at some point, picked the lock on my trunk and stole my 1157 bulb.

The front turn signal is another issue. With a cleaned socket, the running light works, but the turn signal does not. However, if I have the headlights on, the running light blinks. Slowly, but it blinks. On these cars, the front uses an 1157 bulb also, and the running light runs on the small filament, while the turn signal runs on the heavy filament, just like a rear tailight does. Why the turn signal is powering the running light, I have no idea. Again, it may be a ground issue somewhere. Something like that can take a while to track down. Since the Drag Week tech inspectors are pretty sticky about the cars being street legal, with all functions working correctly, I have to have that front turn signal working. Fortunately, since I have a limited time to deal with some of these things, all I have to do is turn on my headlights to get that light to blink...slowly..lol It'll pass that way, but I need to track down that issue as well.

I put about 50 miles on the car today, and they went by without any problems. The car ran beautifully. I had forgotten just how nice these cars ride and drive. They may not corner with a darn, but they sure are comfortable! The magic of fresh air vents and vent windows is something lost on todays people that need micro pollen filtered air in their cars! And I love quad headlight cars!! Not even the new super-duper blue 'eye burning' headlights that people use today can match 4 blazing halogen bulbs! By the way, I hate those damn blue headlights.

Anyways, I'm now figuring out my packing space in the trunk and heading to the DMV tomorrow to get new tags for it. Umm, now that I mention that, did I say I had driven the car the last couple days? Forget I said that. It was a lie. I would NEVER break the law like that.

[turbohunter]

Oh I long for your DMV. A few years ago I bought a fire truck when I was shooting a concert in Fort Loramie (iirc). Getting it tagged to drive across country was easy as pie.
In Calif. it would be darn near impossible.
Good luck Doug, we’ll be following.

[cjshaker]

Marc, Ohio is definitely relaxed when it comes to getting a title for a car, or tags, or inspections. They did away with road and yearly inspections MANY years ago, and they don't do exhaust checks. I've heard lots of horror stories about the California DMV. I'm glad I don't have to deal with them.

[AlanCasida]

Lookin' good Doug!! Make sure your wipers are in good shape. The extended forecast is predicting rain almost all next week.

[cjshaker]

Alan, funny you mentioned that. I just changed the wipers tonight, and just checked the forecast before checking the forum. Temps are calling for high 80's and chances of popup showers and isolated storms most of the week, but it's still a bit early to be real accurate. That's pretty typical though of areas with high humidity and temps, especially in early evening when things start to cool a bit. It's been like that all summer where I live, in fact most of the eastern US has been like that all summer. I'm hoping it's just isolated popups that come and go.

I put another 40+ miles on the car tonight. The float issue didn't go away like I had hoped. It was 90 here today, and the minor flooding when fully warm and shut off was apparent again. The engine would crank for about 4+ seconds before it popped to life and you then had to clear it out.

When I got home, I popped the top of the carburetor off and it was apparent that the rear bowl was much higher than the front, so I started the car to see what was happening. You can do that on Autolite carbs because unlike Holleys, all the top of the carb does is keep the fuel from sloshing out (and of course contains the choke flap). Immediately fuel shot up out of the carb from the inlets. I've run Autolites plenty of times, and with stock fuel pumps you can typically run the engine with the top of the carb off with no issues because the fuel pressure is so low. Autolite carbs are very sensitive to fuel pressure and don't like the higher pressures that you always find on "performance" mechanical fuel pumps. That's the reason I went with a standard Carter OEM type fuel pump, but apparently they still push 4-5+ PSI, which the stock carbs don't like. They are perfectly happy with 2-3 lbs of pressure, which is fine on stock or very mild engines.

I went ahead and bent the float tab to put more pressure on the seat, and no more than half of the bowl full of fuel. The idle jets were immediately more sensitive to adjustment, and after another drive to get it fully warm, I parked it and watched the secondaries. There was no more fuel dribbling out of the venturis and all the soaking of the spacer was gone. I waited a few minutes and now the car starts at the smallest touch of the key, every time. Another spirited drive to get the engine as warm as possible produced the same effect. I couldn't be more happy with how things have gone with the engine, and being such a mild stocker, the half full bowls shouldn't cause any starvation going down the track, especially with the higher pressure than stock.

Of course there had to be SOME problem pop up, or it wouldn't be a Drag Week event. After trying them all week, the horns decided to take a vacation today. They try to blow, but sound like a mute person trying to clear their throat. Probably a grounding issue or they are just plain giving out. I'll find out tomorrow.

[machoneman]

Take off the horns and bang then on a hard surface to loosen up rusty reed valves.

[Heo]

The qurse of the faulty horns I dont know how many times i done
the last check up before tec inspection and the horn decided to quit
just that  ghnk, ghnk sound its allways due to rust beacuse of
not using the horn sometimes a whack with a hammer fix it some times
you have to take the horn apart

[My427stang]

Lots of things happen that shouldn't happen, Ross While I agree with your statement, the I terminal shouldn't be getting power in the run position either.

Doug, I am not sure that is true. In fact I'd be surprised if it was, I think that wire should see resisted voltage in run

I will see if I have a book with that wiring diagram, but I think the start and run circuit both feed the coil positive without any sort of diode or separate routing.  Because the solenoid disengages, the post should no longer have battery voltage but the wire going to the I terminal post should backfeed and you should see whatever the resistor circuit is feeding the coil in RUN, usually dim on a test light.  It doesn't affect anything because the solenoid is disengaged.

Remember, the I terminal doesn't go through the ignition switch.  Envision it a a dedicated circuit from the I post to the positive side of the coil a straight wire across the valve cover directly to the coil if it helps.  Also on the positive side of the coil is the run circuit from the resistor wire.  (even though they may be spliced somewhere earlier).

1 - Cranking, solenoid activates - battery voltage to coil straight through the I wire, no switch action other than feeding the S terminal.

2 - Release the key - 12V+ from the solenoid dies, connection is broken inside solenoid, but the I wire is still connected to ignition.   At that point you will see backfeed to I wire from the run circuit

In fact, I have seen guys run their choke off the I terminal, not something I practice because the chokes are not designed for resisted power and if there is one circuit I don't want to take power away, it's the coil, but people who do it, claim success because of that backfeed

Now if you changed the solenoid and it still does engages the starter.  I'd be looking for mice or someone else's "fancy" wiring

Regardless, awesome success and love the car and I won't say anything about how prepared you are because that could bring on the bad mojo

[Stangman]

That’s what I said and then the wiring problem occurred so I’m just gonna bud out.