Author Topic: Getting started for Drag Week 2018  (Read 26960 times)

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cjshaker

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Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« on: June 25, 2018, 08:12:58 PM »
This has been kind of a crazy year with lots of setbacks and issues that have crept up, so I'm just now getting started on the Galaxie for this years Drag Week. I was thinking it was going to be a quick and easy project, but you know how that goes. I had already replaced all the brakes, brake lines and wheel cylinders when I bought the car about 10 years ago, but the single pot master cylinder went bad one day and it got parked until I could switch it over to the safer dual pot style. I purchased that long ago but never got around to putting it on. Just when I parked it, the original tranny (an *cough* autermatic thingy) started making strange noises and didn't want to go into gear right away, so that was added to the list of things to address.

I finally got started on it yesterday. It took me over 2 hours just to remove all the junk that had somehow accumulated on top of the car.  ::)  After throwing a battery in it, I turned the engine over for about 10 seconds to get some oil flowing into the engine and to draw some gas back up to the carb. Then I gave it a shot of starting fluid and hit the key. Remarkably, after sitting for 8 years, and with the gas smelling like turpentine bad, it fired right up and ran perfect!!....for about 5 seconds. Then the foul gas hit the carb and it would barely run. No problem, at least I knew it was going to run again, and run good. It didn't even make a sound when it started. No lifter noise or anything. Sometimes you just can't beat the old points ignition!!

The bad news was the carb was peeing out every gasket and orifice. In the short time it was running, the top of the intake was full of gas, and I do mean FULL. Again, not a biggie. It's the original Autolite 4 barrel, so rebuilding it will not present any problems, I hope. I went ahead and sucked the remaining bad gas out of the tank and started preparing to pull the engine and trans. I wanted to re-gasket the engine while it was out, replace the block core plugs, clean it up a bit and probably throw some paint on it while it's out. The trans will get rebuilt by a friend of mine, and probably a get new convertor while it's out.

I don't know anything about this engine except it idled perfect and ran perfect when I was driving it. The car is about as original as you'll ever find. Never repainted, never hit or hurt, not even a single dent anywhere on it. Even the grille looks perfect and isn't stone pitted. The interior doesn't even have a ripped stitch, and it's 100% original, including the carpet. Except for a small amount of rust on the drivers rear quarter, the car is 100% rust free. The rear quarter rust is odd because even the underneath of the car is rust free with only a hint of surface rust in a few small spots, not even any pitting on the floorpans. This is the nicest 'original, untouched' car I've ever started with, or personally seen, for that matter. While the engine bay is all original and in very good shape, I could tell the valve covers and air cleaner had been repainted, so I'm not sure if the engine is untouched. Here's what I started with...





After soaking up all the gas on top of the intake, I started the removal process by taking as much off the engine as I could so I could check things over as I removed them. The heater hose that ran to the carb spacer was practically falling apart with rust and it still had the original tower clamps on it.



When I took off the original fuel pump, I found something that I was happy to see, and something that I wasn't so happy to see. The timing chain didn't have the nylon gear, so that was a relief, but I saw a little more gunk in the engine than I had hoped to see.



It appears that the engine has had at least some work done to it in the past, but I don't know how much or what was done. Since I've owned the car, I haven't even removed a valve cover because the engine ran so perfect, but I think I'm going to remove everything and give the internals a good look before I decide that it's good enough to get through Drag Week. My intentions are to just drive the car to Georgia, participate in Drag Week, then drive it back home. Hauling my truck and trailering the car that far will kill me in gas money, and I just can't really afford that at the moment.

The heat factor is going to be a big one this year. According to my Son, who lives in N. Carolina and will be meeting up with me to go on the event again this year, the temps, heat index and humidity are pretty brutal in that part of the country, even in late September. So I'm thinking about throwing an Edelbrock water pump on that I have laying around, and possibly getting a new radiator. Even though there's nothing wrong with the original one, there is a bit of calcium buildup in the tubes, and I'd just feel better with a new, more efficient radiator. It also needs a fan shroud, so I'll be getting one of those. The car never got hot when I drove it, but I think that could change down south with a fully loaded car driving through mountains and traffic.

So my plan is:
Rebuild the trans and a new torque convertor
Replace the original damper with an aftermarket one I have here (the rubber is deteriorated bad)
Check internals of engine and timing chain for looseness
Regasket the engine
Paint engine
Replace water pump and fuel pump
Rebuild the carb
Check and/or replace U-joints
Replace ALL rubber hoses on the car and flush fuel system
Replace radiator and get a fan shroud, and possibly a different fan with more blades than the original style with 4
New tires

For you guys that are used to dealing with the heat down south, I'm open to suggestions as to how to combat it. My Son suggested putting an electric fan on it. I don't want to spend the money on that, but it's something I may have to consider. The engine is stock, so extra heat buildup from a performance engine is not an issue. I am considering headers while the engine is out though, and that probably wouldn't help any. I may wait until I get back to do that, just to avoid adding more heat to the engine compartment.
I've got to get my butt in gear!

« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 08:22:59 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

jayb

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 08:26:22 PM »
What a nice, clean car!  You didn't mention the engine size, I assume its a 390?  Got a spare 427 to throw in there?  You'd have "The Velvet Brute"!

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

64bird410

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 09:03:20 PM »
Doug,

Looks like a fun project. 3 years ago i installed an electric fan in my 64 tbird. After installing the electric fan i was able to comfortably idle in Las Vegas rush hr traffic sitting at stop lights when it was 112-115 ambient. Like you i was on a budget. So i pulled a fan from a late 90's early 2000's vic or mercury (cant remember which) from the local pic-n-pull. I used a $50 probe style temp switch and wired it in using a parts store relay. The "late model" electric fan pulls "alot" of cfm. Best upgrade ive done to the car for driveability and didnt cost much.  Best of luck.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 09:48:53 PM »
What a nice, clean car!  You didn't mention the engine size, I assume its a 390?  Got a spare 427 to throw in there?  You'd have "The Velvet Brute"!

Yes, it's an original 390 car. If the engine didn't look sound, 2 plans came to mind; One, pull the 390 out of my F350 and throw it in, or 2, yank the 427 out of my Mach and throw it in. Both of those engines will be coming out in the near future anyway, so they are both viable options, although I don't think the stock drivetrain would hold up to well with the 427 in my Mach. I have the parts to build another 427, and I'm considering building it and putting it in the car for future use, but not enough time to do that now. I'd keep it mild to keep the car a cruiser.

Thanks for the input, 64bird. I may make some calls to local yards and see what they have on hand. I have everything but the fan. I've got lots of other things going on, so time may be a detriment to that though.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2018, 09:58:45 PM »
Looks good Doug! I have a stock 3 row side flow radiator from a '68 Galaxie using an OEM clutch fan in my '66 with the 521 in it and I haven't had any real issues cooling it. The first year I went on Dragweek it got up to 105 one day and it didn't over heat. The transmission got a little warm though.
Hope to see you in September. :)

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2018, 12:38:23 AM »
Wow Doug, That thing is a rolling time capsule.

Will you remove the valves from the heads for cleaning / inspection? I drove Pops old truck 30 minutes to work pulling gas from a saddle tank that was way too old. Ran fine that morning, needless to say, it didn't start that afternoon. The old gas had the valves stuck. The machine shop had to drive them out with a hammer they said, the old gas stunk up the shop too. Food for thought.

The next summer, I swapped the 2 core radiator for a three core and added a 7 blade fan, no clutch. The 360 had no power, but it didn't overheat either!!

Good Luck with Drag week.




John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2018, 07:09:19 AM »
John, I have no intentions of pulling the heads and/or intake and going that far into the engine. At the most, I'll check the valve seals and possibly replace with new umbrella types if they are brittle or look bad. Just not enough time for me to dig in that far. You know how it goes; once you pull an engine apart, things get out of hand quick and you end up with a stroker and having to upgrade the entire drivetrain..lol  And I learned long ago, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! As far as I know, this is the original engine to the car, and it really did run perfect. It didn't smoke a bit, didn't use any oil and no noises at all. I'd like to keep it intact.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

machoneman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2018, 08:02:17 AM »
John, I have no intentions of pulling the heads and/or intake and going that far into the engine. At the most, I'll check the valve seals and possibly replace with new umbrella types if they are brittle or look bad. Just not enough time for me to dig in that far. You know how it goes; once you pull an engine apart, things get out of hand quick and you end up with a stroker and having to upgrade the entire drivetrain..lol  And I learned long ago, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! As far as I know, this is the original engine to the car, and it really did run perfect. It didn't smoke a bit, didn't use any oil and no noises at all. I'd like to keep it intact.

Yes, by all means do the valve seals! With the intake off (if you dare!) check the backsides of the intakes for crud. After buttoning it up, I'd add some old school Rislone engine treatment and take a drive. Then, you may need to change the oil again to remove crud.
Bob Maag

thatdarncat

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2018, 08:17:17 AM »
Cool Galaxie Doug, it will be fun to watch your Drag Week story this year, keep us all updated. If you decide to do an electric fan conversion you might want to check the post I did a while back on the Ford Contour set-up, I still get these for $35 at my local U-Pull-R-Parts. As mentioned, there are fan sets used on other cars that also look like they would work well. I have also spotted small electric fans used on some small cars that would be perfect to use with a transmission cooler or oil cooler. I will add though, keeping things simple can be a good idea for Drag Week, if the car stays cool with a stock fan that may be best. Here's a link to the post:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4807.msg50389#msg50389

The other thing I would suggest is looking at insulating your fuel lines, especially anywhere near the engine or exhaust ( especially if you add headers ). It's always hard on Drag Week to know what you're going to get for gas, and it may be different regionally than what you test with at home. In 2016 when I took my '78 Mark V on Drag Week I had an issue on the last day with fuel vapor lock. I had never experienced an issue in the 15 years I had owned the car and had often used it as my summer daily driver, and I didn't have an issue on the first five days of Drag Week, but on the final day the run order at the track changes and Street Machine Eliminator was first out, and sure enough after driving to the track from the hotel and right to the staging lanes I had issues with fuel starvation going down the track. I cooled the engine compartment and sprayed the fuel line with water and made a second pass that was better, but still had an issue. Anyway, just something to think about.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 08:20:28 AM by thatdarncat »
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2018, 11:05:36 AM »
Kevin, you brought up an important thing that I forgot to mention. Fuel heating. I have plans of eliminating the factory spacer and using the tallest insulated spacer that I can get under the hood. I also have decided on waiting on the headers for the very reason I mentioned before. I had not considered insulating the fuel line, but that's a good idea also. I probably will also raise the back of the hood, just for Drag Week, to give an exit for excess underhood heat to escape.

When I was driving the car, it ran fine on regular pump gas, which is 89 octane in my parts. So I don't see that being an issue, but I may carry a few gallons of race gas just to mix in a couple gallons if I develop an issue in worst-case driving scenarios. I'd like to clean up the chambers and tops of the pistons of carbon buildup, but again, I don't want to have to tear into the engine at this point.

And yes, I really prefer to keep things as simple as can be, especially for Drag Week. Everything you add is something that can go wrong. The mechanical fan is foolproof, so I'm thinking with the upgrades that I'm planning on, overheating shouldn't be an issue. At least that's what I think..lol
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cattleFEeder

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2018, 01:09:48 PM »
Doug here is a 7 blade clutch fan that they repoped from 428 cj cars. Real nice quality and they look like they belong there. Just a thought I have a couple of these on my cars.
https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/c909fan.html?attribs=79
Remember, RPM is your friend

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2018, 01:31:06 PM »
On my Fairlane i had what we call the Ford meatcleaver :D
It pushed a lot of air
No clutch, big stainless paddles that suposed to flatten out
on higher rpm
Its a Ford Fan. I have it somewhere if i find it i can give you the partnr



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2018, 02:08:23 PM »
Yes, by all means do the valve seals! With the intake off (if you dare!) check the backsides of the intakes for crud. After buttoning it up, I'd add some old school Rislone engine treatment and take a drive. Then, you may need to change the oil again to remove crud.

Bob, at this point, I think trying to clean the insides of the engine may cause more issues than it would solve. I've learned over the years that leaving well enough alone is sometimes the best course of action, at least until a full rebuild takes place. Sometimes, removing all that 'crud' loosens stuff up and you can develop issues, and sometimes lose oil pressure in the process. It can also cause contaminants to come loose later down the road and get into the oiling system, creating issues with bearings and such.

Doug here is a 7 blade clutch fan that they repoped from 428 cj cars. Real nice quality and they look like they belong there. Just a thought I have a couple of these on my cars.
https://secure.cougarpartscatalog.com/c909fan.html?attribs=79


I have a couple of those fans laying around. I was going to see if they would fit the stock type fan shroud. If so, that would be a good route to take, although for this event, I may like a solid mount better. That would eliminate any chance of slippage on the clutch. I'm obviously not going to break any records here, although I may come close to breaking Kevin's land yacht record for slowest Drag Week participant  ;D, so losing a few HP in the name of reliability is fine by me.

Heo, like I mentioned above, I have a couple of that style of fan laying around. They do work good! Never heard them called meatcleavers before, but that seems a pretty apt description of them...lol  I have a healthy dose of self preservation when working around ANY fan!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 02:09:59 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

mbrunson427

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2018, 03:05:28 PM »
Let me look for these headers for you....our '65 used to have a set of FPP headers on the 390. They'd have less than 1000 miles on them. Not using them on the tunnelport engine. I have other '65 parts sitting in the basement but looks like that car is in real good shape and the stuff I have wouldn't make for much improvement. I do have a factory radiator for it sitting in the garage, real good shape.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2018, 07:03:24 PM »
Mr. Brunson, I have a complete spare rust free front end for the car, including 3 fenders, 2 grilles, a hood, headlight buckets etc. The guy I bought it from is an old friend, and he thinks like I do, spare parts are a must have if you plan on keeping a car. I even got 2 rear replacement quarter panels with it. Except for a paint job, because the original paint is showing it's age and has some bad flaws in spots, the car needs almost nothing. Even the side trim is perfect. The front bumper chrome is near perfect, and the rear is decent. The headlight and tail light housing chrome isn't perfect, but in the interest of originality, I think I'll keep them. Only 2 things I would consider replacing are the dash, which I think would have to be recovered by Just Dashes because they're not available in reproduction, and the lower rear window trim....because a friend stepped on the one I had and bent it pretty bad. I would be interested in those headers though. PM me if you come across them.

Just an FYI, I have another '65 Galaxie that is an original 390 4 spd car, at least that's my understanding, I haven't ran the numbers on it. While it's in almost as good of shape as far as rust is concerned (actually the quarters are super solid), the car looks absolutely horrible, and the interior is as shot as an interior can get. It makes Jay's Torino interior look like a concours car :)  It's more your typical 53 year old car that has had lots done to it over the years, including some local drag racing by the guy who owned it before. I had considered making it into a full on drag car so I don't have to cut on the Mach 1, or I may just sell it. The jury is still out on that one.



Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

rwsmith3623

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 11:27:22 AM »
Man, this party really died...

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2018, 01:38:51 PM »
lol...you calling me out? I'll report on all the progress, as soon as there is some. The whole idea behind Drag Week is to put off what needs to be done until the last second, then thrash to get it all done so that any and all issues show up during the event.

Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

turbohunter

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2018, 02:37:30 PM »
It happens during the summer. There are vacations and family stuff to get in the way. But you just wait for a couple months and the corn will be a poppin’.
Doug I’m kinda jazzed myself to see how you’re getting along. Good luck.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2018, 05:24:43 PM »
Shoot, I don't even have my engine back from the machine shop yet!

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2018, 08:06:54 PM »
I spent all night tonight moving 2 trailers, 2 tractors, both Mustangs, pulling the truck out to move the car hauler, all just to get the engine hoist in front of the Galaxie. The engine is ready to pull now, but it doesn't help when the garage is so crammed full that it takes an entire night just to perform a simple task ::)

That was my Son that commented, and he knows there's another distraction that has been drawing my time away, so it's a good thing he's calling me out. A recent purchase of mine...


I just can't stay off the darn thing.

Marc, I'll have the engine out this weekend and get a good look at things and start the cleaning process.
Alan, I hope there aren't any delays from the machine shop. I know things will go quickly once you get it back, but machine shops have a way of holding projects up.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2018, 10:23:35 PM »
Very nice bike, Doug! I think I ought to have my motor back by next weekend or so. It'll be close by I think I'll be ready since I am not changing anything. I'll probably make my first pass in Georgia, though. It's Dragweek!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 10:30:14 PM by AlanCasida »

turbohunter

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2018, 07:05:04 AM »
Oooooh, I don’t blame you. Nice ride.
Cool to have your kid on the forum also. Wish mine had any interest at all.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2018, 09:48:19 AM »
He has a nice Fox body Mustang that had a centrifugal charged 302 in it. He's a Ford guy through and through, so he was brought up right ;)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

rwsmith3623

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2018, 05:54:33 PM »
I spent all night tonight moving 2 trailers, 2 tractors, both Mustangs, pulling the truck out to move the car hauler, all just to get the engine hoist in front of the Galaxie. The engine is ready to pull now, but it doesn't help when the garage is so crammed full that it takes an entire night just to perform a simple task ::)

That was my Son that commented, and he knows there's another distraction that has been drawing my time away, so it's a good thing he's calling me out. A recent purchase of mine...


I just can't stay off the darn thing.

Marc, I'll have the engine out this weekend and get a good look at things and start the cleaning process.
Alan, I hope there aren't any delays from the machine shop. I know things will go quickly once you get it back, but machine shops have a way of holding projects up.

Get off that bike and stop fartin around, I heard the guys at 1320 Video are doing a “slowest car at drag week” full feature video this year. This is our 15 minutes of fame, I can feel it.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2018, 01:49:01 PM »
lol, now that's something we'd have an honest shot at. Maybe I'll leave the tools in the trunk to slow it down a bit. That should give you enough time to grab a bite to eat while I'm going down the track.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

GJCAT427

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2018, 08:08:00 PM »
Doug, I know all about those 2 wheel distractions. I`ve been riding the hell out of my 77 Super Glide the last couple of weeks. To make matters more complicated, I did a demo ride on a 2018 Fat Boy a week ago and went back today to do some dickering. There may be a 4th Harley in the overcrowded garage! Gotta get Ma to budge on terms.   

rwsmith3623

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2018, 11:47:04 PM »
Doug, I know all about those 2 wheel distractions. I`ve been riding the hell out of my 77 Super Glide the last couple of weeks. To make matters more complicated, I did a demo ride on a 2018 Fat Boy a week ago and went back today to do some dickering. There may be a 4th Harley in the overcrowded garage! Gotta get Ma to budge on terms.   

He’s no better. He’s got 3 bikes now, and he won’t give me any of them!

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2018, 07:49:13 PM »
I finally got rolling on the car this weekend. After pulling the carb apart, it was easy to see why it wouldn't run right. Eight years or so of sitting, and that crappy fuel really did a number it.



The jets were so plugged, and the bowls so full of crap that I'm surprised it ran at all! The visible crud on the bottom covered the entire bottom of both bowls. Much of it came floating out when I flushed the old gas out of it.



I went ahead and pulled it completely apart to start the cleaning process. I also found out that there is basically only ONE rebuild kit available for these old 4100's. Well, 2 I guess, but one doesn't contain the vacuum secondary diaphragm, which this one needed since the old one had a tear in it. Hopefully it's a decent kit.
Laid out with some components marked...



So today I got my butt in gear to pull the engine, despite 90 degree temps and bad humidity, which means the garage was about 95-100 inside :P

After getting it pulled out, I went to put it on my new geared engine stand, but couldn't since the old bolts I had weren't long enough with the new stand. So I started pulling stuff off to get it ready for cleaning, the new water and fuel pump, new gaskets etc. I decided to pull a valve cover off because I really wanted to get a look inside. I was not encouraged by what I saw inside!



The gunk and crud buildup was disheartening to say the least. While I've seen engines back in the day that were much worse, this is not what I wanted to see right before taking a 3000 mile trip. My concern is that some of this stuff will start to break up during the trip and either get into the oiling system, in which case it will either score pretty much everything in the engine, or it will just plug up the pump screen and/or filter and I'll lose oil pressure. I was pretty disappointed at that point, and since it was getting late and I had lost a few pounds from sweat, I threw in the towel, hopped on the bike and went to get an ice cream cone to cool off and think about what to do. I'm really at a crossroads here; either I throw in the towel, not wanting to risk a breakdown while a thousand miles from home, or I go ahead with the plan of re-gasket the engine and throw it back in in the hopes that it makes it back home, where I can pull the engine later on and give it a proper cleaning and rebuild.

Bob had mentioned running a cleaner through the engine, but I'm really against that idea. I know from experience that when there is a bunch of crud buildup in a high mileage stock engine, once all that crud is removed, a drastic loss of oil pressure is usually the result, unless everything is checked for tolerances and addressed or rebuilt properly. I don't have the time to do that.

What would you guys would do?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 07:53:59 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Barry_R

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2018, 08:16:33 PM »
Wanna do it one the cheap?  Pull the heads, intake, and oil pan.  Hose off the heads, and intake at the local quarter car wash (check the immediate for environmentalists first).  Use a gallon of mineral spirits from Home Depot and a dollar store paint brush on the lifter valley and rockers.  Reassemble with some new gaskets and a new pump pickup.  Resist the temptation to look at other parts - you really do not want to know.

You cannot have spent more than a hundy on the whole adventure including a chilled bottle of (alcohol infused?) assembly lube.

Pack a few energy bars and a cooler in case you need to wait for roadside assistance if it poops out. 
Odds are that an old FE engine will literally run forever.

jayb

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2018, 10:58:12 PM »
+1 on what Barry said.  Collect all the gaskets you need and set aside a day for the cleanup.  Don't be too fussy, clean it up as best as you can and slam it back together.  It'll make it.

I remember during the first Drag Week, on day 3 the overall leader lost a ground wire on his fuel solenoid in his nitrous system.  Burned up half his pistons on his last pass.  He sent another competitor off to an auto parts store 100 miles away to get new pistons, then pulled the whole motor apart in the pits and swapped pistons and put in new rings in the middle of the night.  He gapped the rings with an angle grinder LOL!  Finally left the pits at Bowling Green at 3:00 AM, made it to National Trail about 10:00 AM.  Tore off another 8.55 at that track, same number he'd been running all week.  Said he was disappointed that it didn't go faster with a freshen up on the motor  ;D ;D  What you've got in front of you is nothing like that...

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

GJCAT427

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2018, 04:31:21 AM »
Doug, the 427 in my 56 was freshened up when I rebuilt the truck 10 yrs ago. I took it down to a long block and power washed it at the tractor shop down the road. I got it home and blew it out with the air compressor and a long wand air nozzle. Took about 15 minutes to get all the water out and off of it. Reassembled installed and fired up. No problems and you saw it run at Beaver the first yr I went.

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2018, 09:45:24 AM »
Can you get low or no detergent oil somewhere? Do you know what
oil it had used before? Probably would run fine with the same oil
 I agree with barry  wash away what crud you
can since you tear it down to change gaskets use non detergent oil
run it up to temp and for a while, change oil filter.
 Bring a picknick table and some beverage and something to eat if it starts knocking
have a picknick and call a towtruck :D
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 09:47:24 AM by Heo »



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cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2018, 09:58:24 AM »
I'm not trailering, so I have to have the vehicle to get back home. Unless I pull the cam and lifters and flush out the entire upper block oiling system, I think I could end up with problems of dirt/grit getting into it and causing a bigger issue. I'm considering pulling the intake and heads and just cleaning them up and throwing it back together. At least I don't think I'd have to worry about the cam and lower end that way.

Option 2 would be to pull the 390 that I got off of Blair a couple years ago, which is currently in the dump truck, and throw it in the car. That's probably actually the easiest, best route to take. Only problem with that option is I'd have to pull it back out to put it back in the truck so I can use it for wood this fall/winter, plus it's my tow vehicle to the FERR in the Spring. Once I get back from Drag Week, I have to get into winter mode quick and get wood cut for winter heat.

I'll be pulling the engine down further tonight, then I'll make a more informed choice.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 10:02:32 AM »
Heo, I ran conventional 10w-30 in it and it held decent pressure even at idle. I'm kinda curious now what the oil pan and pickup screen look like. I'll find out tonight. I do have a couple cases of non-detergent 30 weight on hand that I use in my old tractor. I had considered that route.

A tow bill back to Ohio, while having to rent a car to do the same is NOT something I want to do. I don't even want to imagine what that would cost! :o
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

mbrunson427

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2018, 11:23:53 AM »
Did a hunt for those headers this weekend, found out they got swap meeted this fall. Sorry, false alarm.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2018, 01:32:30 PM »
Heo, I ran conventional 10w-30 in it and it held decent pressure even at idle. I'm kinda curious now what the oil pan and pickup screen look like. I'll find out tonight. I do have a couple cases of non-detergent 30 weight on hand that I use in my old tractor. I had considered that route.

A tow bill back to Ohio, while having to rent a car to do the same is NOT something I want to do. I don't even want to imagine what that would cost! :o

I think you would be fine with  the non- detergent oil if you dont touch the gunk. its when you begin to disturb it things happen :-\
I have seen engines imported from USA Where it was a cast of gunk of the valvecover inside just the rockers had some space.
Probably an oilchange every solar eclipse ;D. They run fine until the owners pour in some new high quality high-detergent oil
I rebuilt a -67 Cadillac engine that i had to drill out the gunk plugs from the crank. Was a little old ladys daily driver until a friend
bought it imported it and gave it some syntetic oil....after 80 miles it was over, Crank seized up

On the other hand if you swaping all the gaskets... a few bolts more and you have the cam and lifters out...mayby some other cam and
intake on a shelf in the shop and....... ::)

If it starts knocking you have the perfect father and son project, changing rodbearings on the side of the highway ;)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 02:45:17 PM by Heo »



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cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2018, 08:57:25 AM »
After other commitments, I finally got back on it pretty heavy by taking yesterday off and tearing into it. This is gonna be a quick update, then I'm heading back out because I took today off also.

I decided to tear it down to the short block before making a final decision. Even though the distributor turned easily, I found out that it was stuck and would not come out. I even used the engine hoist to lift the intake, but it didn't help with the distributor. After a half hour with a rubber mallet, it finally came out and I got the intake off. It looked pretty cruddy around the lifter valley pan. At this point, I wasn't expecting things to work out with this engine for Drag Week.





Still wasn't looking good, so I tore the heads off.



First thing I noticed was that it still had an original steel shim head gasket....and what appeared to be stock pistons. I wasn't expecting anything good when I saw that, but when I looked closer, it gave me some hope. There was very little ridge at the top and all the cylinders looked VERY good with no scoring or odd wear. There was a fair amount of dry carbon buildup on the tops of the pistons, but since I never noticed the engine smoke, I'm guessing that the carbon was just normal buildup from the 60k miles showing on the odometer. When I bought the car off of an old friend, there was a discrepancy about the mileage. He thought the car likely had 160k miles, but I wasn't so sure about that. The car just felt too tight and ran too good. More on that in a minute.

I went ahead and pulled the pan for the final look.





This is where my hopes shot up. The bottom end was not full of crud, although there was a fair amount of gunk in the bottom of the pan. The pump screen didn't look bad. I grabbed all the rods and could not get ANY play out of them! The bottom end seemed to be in very good shape. After a good look at the cylinders, the stock pistons and clean bores, the bottom end with no play and what appeared to be stock rod and main bearings, I was convinced that this was indeed an all stock, fairly low mileage engine, and that that 60k was indeed original. It seems that the only thing ever done to the engine was the double row timing chain, and I'm guessing that was only done for preventative measures.

I decided to mic the bores, and was very happy with what I found. I don't have a bore gauge, but I use a depth gauge set that I have. It's harder to use, but with a good touch and some patience, you can get solid readings. After some time measuring, I found that all bores measured right at 4.053, with very little, if any, taper or out of round. In fact I couldn't find anything more than 4.0535. I measured the ridges at the top and they were all at 4.05-4.051. This was indeed a stock bore block, and a very good one at that!



That's when I decided to try and get this thing back together and drive it for Drag Week. So I decided to clean the block the best I could, being extra careful NOT to get any gunk down in the bores or around the cam and oiling system. So I decided to turn the engine upside down and clean everything while it was down, allowing any and all crud to fall to the floor. I plugged all the lifter holes and drain holes and scraped and sprayed the lifter valley, using lots of brake cleaner.



I also did the same with the piston tops and decks. After I was done, well, mostly done, I still have one side of the lifter valley to do, I was pretty happy with how things were turning out. That gave me even more motivation to get this thing back together and give it an honest shot at making the event.





I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with the heads. Either I pop the springs off the original heads and put new umbrella seals on them, temporarily until I get a chance to rebuild them, or I'm thinking about throwing on the C4 heads that I had on the 390 in my old '68 Highboy, which have had hardened exhaust seats put in and are machined for positive type valve seals. They were done 25 years ago, and they have quite a few miles on them, but they are still in good shape.

The downside to switching heads is that the C4's off my Highboy had been milled, which means my pushrods might not be the proper length. Or I could switch to my adjustable rocker set that I used on my Highboy, but that means all new pushrods on the old lifters. At this point I'm leaning towards the old heads with new umbrella seals, just to keep the engine in a state where everything worked together. Still, a replacement head gasket will raise the head a bit over the factory steel shim gasket, so that could make its own issues. Ugh, I hate making decisions like this. I wouldn't have gave something like this a thought when I was a kid. I would have just thrown it together. Not I kinda hate to do stuff like that, but I don't have much choice in this one.

Question for you guys; do you think I should use some sort of sealer on the head gaskets? If so, what should I use?
I've done razor blade cleanups with new head gaskets plenty of times and never had issues, but this is the first time I've run across steel shim gaskets and not had the block remachined. Kinda concerned about a new gasket holding up. What do you guys think?

Also, what is a good thin head gasket to use? I don't want to open up the squish area any more than I have to, so I'd like to know what are some of the thinnest head gaskets that would match the steel shim gasket, which I think was something like .015 if I remember right?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 08:58:56 AM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

mbrunson427

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2018, 12:03:00 PM »
I played this same game when putting together the 390 for my dad's Galaxie. Without using a steel shim gasket in this situation, it's hard to get compression up over 9.6:1. Ended up using the Cometic .027 gaskets. They have a specific surface finish that they ask for so I don't believe that will work for you. They make them to order so I don't think you have the time to wait on them anyhow.

Is your best bet to find a set of the same factory style head gaskets? Certainly someone on here has a set of them? Spray some copper stuff on there for good measure.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

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Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2018, 02:11:51 PM »
How much is the C4 heads milled,? you can shim under the rockerstand
so the pushrods is the right lengt. Is that 2V pistons with the dish?
if so the engine can benefit from the milled heads



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

TimeWarpF100

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2018, 05:39:49 PM »
After other commitments, I finally got back on it pretty heavy by taking yesterday off and tearing into it. This is gonna be a quick update, then I'm heading back out because I took today off also.

I decided to tear it down to the short block before making a final decision. Even though the distributor turned easily, I found out that it was stuck and would not come out. I even used the engine hoist to lift the intake, but it didn't help with the distributor. After a half hour with a rubber mallet, it finally came out and I got the intake off. It looked pretty cruddy around the lifter valley pan. At this point, I wasn't expecting things to work out with this engine for Drag Week.





Still wasn't looking good, so I tore the heads off.



First thing I noticed was that it still had an original steel shim head gasket....and what appeared to be stock pistons. I wasn't expecting anything good when I saw that, but when I looked closer, it gave me some hope. There was very little ridge at the top and all the cylinders looked VERY good with no scoring or odd wear. There was a fair amount of dry carbon buildup on the tops of the pistons, but since I never noticed the engine smoke, I'm guessing that the carbon was just normal buildup from the 60k miles showing on the odometer. When I bought the car off of an old friend, there was a discrepancy about the mileage. He thought the car likely had 160k miles, but I wasn't so sure about that. The car just felt too tight and ran too good. More on that in a minute.

I went ahead and pulled the pan for the final look.





This is where my hopes shot up. The bottom end was not full of crud, although there was a fair amount of gunk in the bottom of the pan. The pump screen didn't look bad. I grabbed all the rods and could not get ANY play out of them! The bottom end seemed to be in very good shape. After a good look at the cylinders, the stock pistons and clean bores, the bottom end with no play and what appeared to be stock rod and main bearings, I was convinced that this was indeed an all stock, fairly low mileage engine, and that that 60k was indeed original. It seems that the only thing ever done to the engine was the double row timing chain, and I'm guessing that was only done for preventative measures.

I decided to mic the bores, and was very happy with what I found. I don't have a bore gauge, but I use a depth gauge set that I have. It's harder to use, but with a good touch and some patience, you can get solid readings. After some time measuring, I found that all bores measured right at 4.053, with very little, if any, taper or out of round. In fact I couldn't find anything more than 4.0535. I measured the ridges at the top and they were all at 4.05-4.051. This was indeed a stock bore block, and a very good one at that!



That's when I decided to try and get this thing back together and drive it for Drag Week. So I decided to clean the block the best I could, being extra careful NOT to get any gunk down in the bores or around the cam and oiling system. So I decided to turn the engine upside down and clean everything while it was down, allowing any and all crud to fall to the floor. I plugged all the lifter holes and drain holes and scraped and sprayed the lifter valley, using lots of brake cleaner.



I also did the same with the piston tops and decks. After I was done, well, mostly done, I still have one side of the lifter valley to do, I was pretty happy with how things were turning out. That gave me even more motivation to get this thing back together and give it an honest shot at making the event.





I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with the heads. Either I pop the springs off the original heads and put new umbrella seals on them, temporarily until I get a chance to rebuild them, or I'm thinking about throwing on the C4 heads that I had on the 390 in my old '68 Highboy, which have had hardened exhaust seats put in and are machined for positive type valve seals. They were done 25 years ago, and they have quite a few miles on them, but they are still in good shape.

The downside to switching heads is that the C4's off my Highboy had been milled, which means my pushrods might not be the proper length. Or I could switch to my adjustable rocker set that I used on my Highboy, but that means all new pushrods on the old lifters. At this point I'm leaning towards the old heads with new umbrella seals, just to keep the engine in a state where everything worked together. Still, a replacement head gasket will raise the head a bit over the factory steel shim gasket, so that could make its own issues. Ugh, I hate making decisions like this. I wouldn't have gave something like this a thought when I was a kid. I would have just thrown it together. Not I kinda hate to do stuff like that, but I don't have much choice in this one.

Question for you guys; do you think I should use some sort of sealer on the head gaskets? If so, what should I use?
I've done razor blade cleanups with new head gaskets plenty of times and never had issues, but this is the first time I've run across steel shim gaskets and not had the block remachined. Kinda concerned about a new gasket holding up. What do you guys think?

Also, what is a good thin head gasket to use? I don't want to open up the squish area any more than I have to, so I'd like to know what are some of the thinnest head gaskets that would match the steel shim gasket, which I think was something like .015 if I remember right?

I would be afraid of the 53 yr old rings. Gotta be at least one broken one already. Add a set of rings and a ball hone call it good. Not worth ruining a good block for the amount of time and $ that would take.

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2018, 10:38:50 AM »
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mrg-1132g/overview/make/ford

That's the same head gasket I used when I slapped my 416 together. Didn't dust the decks off either. Even though Mr Gasket recommends putting them on as delivered (suppose to have some kind of sealer on them already) I sprayed them with copper sealer. Got a few thousand miles on it now.
Kevin McCullah


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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2018, 07:46:31 AM »
Is that 2V pistons with the dish?
if so the engine can benefit from the milled heads

Heo, not sure, but I believe those are the stock 4 barrel pistons. Everything about the engine is correct, including the C5 intake and Autolite 4100 carb. They appear to have a dish in the pictures, but it's a very small one, not like the ones in most of the old 2 barrel engines I've seen. I'm not an expert on stock set-ups though, so I could be wrong.

I'm going to mock up the cut/rebuilt C4 heads that I have, along with an Edelbrock RPM that I have sitting around. Being cut to offset the thicker gasket, along with the benefits of a blocked heat riser and lighter weight are pushing me in that direction. Once I see how everything is going to fit together, I'll decide if it'll work or if I need to stick with the old heads and intake.

I'm not too concerned about the rings or bearings. There are zero signs of any abnormal wear in any of the cylinders, so I think the rings are still fine. I'm going to limit the RPM's anyway. No sense in thrashing a stock engine. I'm certainly not going to impress anyone with its blazing speed and wheels up launches..lol  I think it's impressive enough that a completely stock, original, 53 year old Galaxie with a big block FE, will be competing in the event anyway. I'm just trying to keep my record of "strictly FE's for Drag Week" alive. 8)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

KMcCullah

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2018, 12:09:55 PM »
I was gonna comment on the possibility of running the milled C4 heads also. But I would do some quick CCin' to make sure I wasn't taking a step backward in compression.

Do you have an old M-57HV oil pump kicking around? With the triple digit temps lately, the hydraulic lifters in my 416 started ticking. Cylinders 1 and 2 were really bad. So I swapped in a used M-57HV for the stocker a few weeks ago. It fixed the ticking, which was making me crazy. But the big thing I noticed, it feels like I picked up maybe 10HP at 5K RPM's. Must be opening the valves a little more I guess. Win-win.

Kevin McCullah


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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2018, 01:06:31 PM »
I'm going to be using several parts out of my old 390 that was in my Highboy, including the Melling M-57HV pump, ARP driveshaft, the double roller timing chain, and the valley tin (to save time cleaning). I'll also be using the oil pan that was on the 390 that I bought off of Blair, which has a baffle in it. It wouldn't work in my F-350 due to the drain plug being in the wrong spot, so I switched it out. It will also save time cleaning.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2018, 10:02:04 PM »
Just a quick update on my DW project.
I put on the old double roller chain from my old 390 and that took up most of the slack that was present with the one that was on it when I tore it down, so that made me feel better. I also took apart and cleaned up my old Melling 57-HV pump and put it on. It looked very good inside. Same with my old FPP oil pump drive. These are all parts that are over 25 years old, but they still looked great.





I double checked the clearance on the oil pump pickup, found it was fine, then buttoned up the bottom end with the timing cover and oil pan. Finally feel like I'm making some real progress on it.





I'm in the process of cleaning up my old C4 heads that I had on the 390 in my Highboy. I decided to use them because they had been milled in the past and that should help offset the thicker head gaskets. They also have hardened exhaust seats and had been cut for positive valve stem seals. They look real good after 25 years of use, and the valve seats still looked good enough to go quite a few more miles. The old valve stem seals had seen better days though, so I ordered a new set of those. I'm going to switch out the double springs that I used with my old Crane cam, for the stock springs that were on the original heads. I didn't see any need to put more pressure on the old cam than was necessary, and this engine won't be revving past 5000. I'll also be using all the old valvetrain hardware that I used on my old engine, which includes Crane retainers and keepers, and my old factory adjustable rockers.

I took my old rocker system apart to clean and inspect it. There's several reasons I decided to go this route; one being that, with the adjustables, I'll be able to get my lifter preload exactly where I want it. Second, I'll be getting rid of the old aluminum stands; this set has the old cast iron jobs, which are much more stable and clamp the shaft much better, in my opinion. The rockers still looked great, but the factory shafts had seen better days after all those years of use, so I took a set of Harland Sharp shafts I had laying around and switched them out. That also took some of the slop out of the rockers, so everything seems to be working out very good (knock on wood). When I originally did these heads, I had switched out the original adjusters for Crane units with locking nuts. I think this will make for a pretty bullet proof rocker system for a basically stock engine. All I'm going to need to do is measure for new pushrods when I get the heads on, and I should be good to go.
A shot of my rocker system with the new shafts ready to be switched over...



I'm going to do a quick CC of one chamber on each of the heads to compare the originals to my cut heads, to find out exactly where my compression will be. By tomorrow night, I hope to have the heads mostly done and ready to reassemble. Then maybe I can get them installed this weekend and get my pushrods ordered. The rest of the top end is pretty much ready to install once I get the heads on. Things should be moving along much more quickly once I get them on.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 10:47:55 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2018, 02:14:55 AM »
You have that back in the car before you know it :)



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Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2018, 06:19:30 PM »
Nice Doug looking good. Are you gonna clean up the rest of the engine compartment
Cause that baby is gonna stick out like a sore thumb. I didn’t go back and check but are you using
the original intake and carb. Oh yes now i remember yes. She should run nice

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2018, 09:11:29 AM »
I cleaned up an RPM intake to throw on it. Since it has no exhaust crossover, and all it needed was a pressure washing, I figured it'd save me time. Still using the original Autolite carb though.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2018, 03:35:53 PM »
Well, I'm at sort of a crossroads here. I spent the last couple days cleaning up my old set of heads and getting them ready. I CC'd them and compared them to the original heads that were on the engine. I was surprised to find that they both came in at exactly 75 CC's. Knowing that my old heads had been cut, I'm wondering if the original heads had been off at some point and were cut also. I guess I'll never know.

I cleaned up the valves, ordered new positive type seals, then started to lap the valves to see what I was dealing with as far as the seats were concerned. Most of the valves and seats were in pretty good shape, considering they had over 25 years of use on them. Mind you, these are original valves, and I only had to replace 2 of them when I did the heads many years ago. There are a few small pits in some of the seats and valves, but nothing I couldn't live with for the time being.





That is until I came to the #2 exhaust valve. It's pitted bad. Like really bad. The seat doesn't look the greatest either. Here's a shot of what it looks like...



Obviously this isn't going to cut it for a 2500 mile trip. I pulled a couple of exhaust valves from the original heads, thinking I could clean one or two of them up and use them, but they weren't looking much better. Then I went to Summit to order a couple of exhaust valves to replace this one and one other that wasn't near as bad, but was still pitted enough that I would feel better if it were replaced. But I'm still pretty concerned about that valve seat. I don't want to be 600+ miles from home and end up with a burned valve, with no way to get the car back. Remember, I'll be driving to the event and driving it back home, so it needs to make the 600 mile trip back to Ohio.

As far as the seats are concerned, there's no time for me to fix them. You know what happens when you take stuff to a machine shop, where stuff disappears into the Twilight Zone for at least a month or 2....or 6. So it's either run them or throw in the towel at this point. I'm curious what you guys think? Would you risk it?
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

jayb

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2018, 03:55:01 PM »
I'd run that seat in a heartbeat.  That engine is no fire breathing monster, and I'll bet it would go 10K miles before you burned a valve in it.  It is amazing how beat up they can be and still run well.  The key thing I always look for is runout; if you have part of the valve that is off the seat by a few thousandths, that will accelerate the burned valve process.  But it doesn't look like that's the case here, based on what your lapping shows.  Stick a new valve in there and go - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2018, 04:41:27 PM »
Those are inseart seats right? i think they will be fine for the trip
with new valves lapped in ...but i would not run them my self ;D ;D
joking aside, i have cutters to fix it so i would cut them but ...
Im with jay on this one i think they last thousand of miles



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2018, 06:54:20 PM »
Yep, they're inserts on the exhaust sides. I guess the seat doesn't look as bad as I originally thought. I think it was just the valve that worried me into second guessing the seat. So I ordered 4 valves today, figured I might as well replace any that have pitting on them. That intake seat is also the worst on the engine. I'm not sure why both were on that one cylinder, because there were no water leaks that I could spot. All the plugs looked decent, and I had not changed them for the last 20 years that I drove that engine. They just didn't need it and the engine never missed. And yes, I'll put some new ones in this time ;D

Since I couldn't do much else to the engine today, I checked my rear wheel backspacing with the 15x8 Magnum 500s that I had here and determined that the 15x7 steel wheels and 26x8 MT ET Street tires that I was looking at would fit fine in the wheelwell. And just to make myself feel a bit better, I threw some of the stuff I had ready on the engine to get an idea of what it was going to look like. Much better than it should in my opinion..lol

My driver side head is painted and ready to go in this shot. The problem was on the passenger side head, so it's not finished or painted. The rest of the stuff is just loosely bolted on.

Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2018, 08:01:44 PM »
Lookin' good, Doug!

machoneman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2018, 08:34:12 PM »
Wow, if this were an old Jasper engine rebuild, that seat would be perfect! LOL!

I'd run it in a heartbeat as well. No kiddin'!
Bob Maag

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2018, 10:41:24 PM »
Got my parts today, took half a day off and made some real progress, and for once everything went pretty smooth.
I ordered Comp Cams seals this time, instead of the Cranes that I ordered last time, and don't ya know it....they came with that little plastic installer! Using that, along with the tool I ordered to help seat the seals, I flew through the heads in no time. Got them installed, threw in a couple of lifters and one rocker shaft assembly and measured for pushrod length. I went to my stash of parts and found a set of Crane chromoly pushrods that I had that were darn near the perfect length. My adjusters are bottomed out and I'll only have to back them off about one and a half turns to get proper lifter preload. I felt like I hit the lottery today ;D

Anyway, after that, I wiped down the stock lifters, lubed them up and dropped them in, installed the valley pan and checked the RPM intake for fit. It fit perfect, so I laid it on, stabbed the distributor to locate it, and buttoned it up. Next, the water pump went on. Making some real progress now and I hope to have the engine completed and ready to install by Saturday. My stash of thermostat housings are all pretty ate up, so I had to order a new one. All the other parts are lined up and ready to bolt on.

A couple shots showing where I ended up by the end of today. Not bad considering the heads were still apart as of noon today.





Since this car had sat for about 10 years before I bought it, got drove for 2 years, then sat the last 8 years, I was a little concerned about the stock valve springs being on the week side, so I made the decision to use the Crane dual springs that I originally used on my old 390 with these heads. They never sat compressed for any length of time. I have some doubts as to whether or not I should have used them with the stock cam and lifters, but they were spec'd for a pretty mild solid cam with only .520 lift, so I'm hoping they won't cause any issues. I guess I'll find out.

I also got my 7" rims and slicks yesterday, so I just need to paint the rims and get them mounted. The 26" slicks are actually a little shorter than the stock tires that will be on the car, but I figure, if nothing else, it'll help with the stock rear gearing and getting the car off the line. It might have a little nose up attitude though. Either way, it'll look old school with the steel wheels. If you can't be fast, you ought to at least look cool while being slow :)

Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2018, 10:51:00 PM »
Lookin' good, Doug! You'll be ready before you know it.

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2018, 12:48:11 PM »
Nice progress Doug.
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2018, 03:46:16 PM »
I dont know Doug...I think i would leave the rims white
In old pics you often the slicks mounted on white rims



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2018, 06:17:55 PM »
Heo, those are new rims that are only primered. They will get the correct Wimbledon White for exactly the reasons you mentioned.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2018, 01:43:42 AM »
Okay, They looked white in the pic




The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2018, 03:23:20 PM »
I agree with you guys white rims are the ticket. And for what it’s
worth I think those springs will be fine.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2018, 08:44:38 PM »
Engine done and ready to go back in the car. I want to prime the oil system before I start it, so the valve covers are just sitting on there. I know the CJ valve covers won't look right on this car, but the originals had a few pinholes in them, and they won't clear the adjustable rockers anyway, so I had these sitting around and they're getting thrown on.



It took me half a day to get the west side of the garage cleaned up so I could actually get to the passenger side of the car and start on the brakes. I already have all new brakes and 2 new wheel cylinders, plus the new dual pot master cylinder for the car, that I bought several years ago.



I swear I think the Ford guys had a sense of humor when they designed the stamping for the firewall. There's no way that this didn't stand out to them..lol

« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 10:51:50 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2018, 11:14:30 PM »

I swear I think the Ford guys had a sense of humor when they designed the stamping for the firewall. There's no way that this didn't stand out to them..lol



Hah, that is funny. Looking good Doug.
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2018, 09:00:07 AM »
Some days you just love working on cars, then there are days like I had yesterday.
Things that went wrong yesterday. Remember, I replaced EVERYTHING in the braking system when I bought the car. These are, or were, 100% new parts.

Went to bleed my dual master cylinder that I bought a couple years ago...found that the rear pot wasn't pushing any fluid. I ordered a second one from Summit and should have it Monday.

The rear wheel cylinder I bought a couple years ago, to replace a leaking one (that I had already replaced), had a different bore size. Then I found one on the front that is just beginning to leak (which I had already replaced). Ordered a complete set of 4 so I know they'll match. Whether or not they will leak is anybodies guess ::)

Being done with the brakes for the day, I decided to go ahead and prime the engine and put the valve covers on for good. I forgot to plug the oil pressure fitting on top of the filter adapter, which interestingly enough, with a reduction fitting for a pressure gauge, produces enough of a restriction that it will shoot oil out with enough force to deflect said oil off of the head, which aims it directly at the idiot in front of the engine and will cover them from shoulder to knee in oil in about 1.4 seconds.

Changed clothes

Installed new U-joints and the rear U-joint seemed to be about .002 too wide, just enough that one of the C clips would not seat properly in it's place. Removed both C clips to sand them down by running them over a piece of sandpaper while measuring with a micrometer. The sanding conveniently removes all traces of fingerprints on your fingers. Should come in handy during my next bank robbery.

Decided to bend a new fuel line from the pump to carb to cover the increased height of the RPM intake. Managed to kink not one, but two lines. Decided to re-use the original one by just "stretching" it up about 3/4".

Called it a day. >:(
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2018, 09:15:33 AM »
Hate to hear the setbacks Doug, but it does make for good reading. Also glad to know I’m not the only one that has days like that!!
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

jayb

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2018, 09:30:36 AM »
Ah, the joys of automotive repair and rebuilding.  I remember working on my Shelby clone on the lead up to one Drag Week, and had pan of drain oil under the car while messing around with something on the transmission.  As I was laying under the car I inadvertently stuck my foot in the pan, then tipped the pan over and spilled all the oil as I was hurriedly removing said foot.  Naturally, I said "Crap!!", twitched up, and then banged my head hard on the transmission pan.  Would've made a good Red Green segment  ;D ;D

Keep at it, buddy, you'll get 'er done...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2018, 02:48:13 PM »
Sorry Dough had to laugh at the oil fountain :o ;D ;D ;D
Had a week like that last week everything from tipping over the bucket
with degreaser with the extensioncord to the guy delivering my parts
to the local vendor getting a heart attack
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 02:55:12 PM by Heo »



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Barry_R

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #68 on: August 25, 2018, 08:20:35 PM »
I think we've all done that day.  Had that oil fitting come loose on dyno once.  Big cloud of smoke & shut things down.  Hustle into the room to see (praying...) what caused the smoke.  Stepped on the oil slick & landed on my backside hard.  Whole episode recorded on video.  You will never see it.  ever....

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2018, 08:32:02 AM »
Awww, c'mon Barry, that sounds like prime YouTube stuff! ;D

I'm pretty sure that's why we can ALL relate to Red Green. Time has a way of allowing you to look back and laugh at something that didn't seem remotely funny at the moment.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

My427stang

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #70 on: August 26, 2018, 08:51:44 AM »
Looking forward to hearing how you make out Doug, looks like a fun way to play

Even to this day, if there is a drip or bucket I will end up sticking my hand or a rag into it, or if filling a gallon jug with drain oil I will almost always overfill.  It's almost a price to pay to finish the job sometimes LOL

As far as the "oh shit" stories, 30-ish years ago I was putting the cab on my F100's bare frame  I put a wooden ladder trough the doors and used a gantry crane/chainfall.  Easy breezy for a bare cab.  The shop I rented back then had a pit, which I was directly over. 

The wooden ladder broke, the cab bounced off the frame pushing it sideways and as it bounced, both drivers side 36 inch monster mudders along with the rest of the frame fell sideways into the pit  :o  and yes THAT fast.....

No damage to anything, but my crane now won't move, the cab is ON the frame and the whole thing is in the pit LOL

The fix was: Get 3 buddies and carry the cab back out of the way, then use the gantry/chain fall to get the frame out, then start again with nylon straps instead of the stupid idea of a 50 year old wooden ladder

In fact, here is said truck and mudders not long after the incident, this is likely 1987-1989, LOL



« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 09:23:39 AM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Joe-JDC

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #71 on: August 26, 2018, 10:01:04 AM »
Sounds familiar.  Yesterday I was priming my oil system for the first time in the EMC engine, and my wife walked in to see how things were coming.  She asked what that red stuff was on the floor, and I remembered just putting the oil sender plug in finger tight.  AMSOIL break in oil is really hard to remove off cement floor.  Which reminds me of when I built the garage 18 years ago, I had just installed the lift, and had my engine oil change things all arranged so that I could start changing oil in my mustangs, and somehow a field rat found its way into my new garage, and proceeded to eat the sticker/label off a new plastic gallon of V-1 10W-30, and the rat decided he liked the plastic just as well as the label.  I was going to seal the floor and coat it with epoxy to make it look great, but now there was a gallon of oil spread all over the new concrete floor.  Still looks terrible after all the cleaning, and years of use.  Found the rat dead behind the compressor a few days later from the stink.  Oil just seems to find its way to the wrong place at the most inopportune times.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Dumpling

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #72 on: August 26, 2018, 11:35:07 AM »
Why do trunk monkies come to mind?

https://youtu.be/eFf2GpEppOk

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2018, 01:13:33 AM »
Car guys have no shortage of stories, that's for sure! None of them seem funny at the time, but they're always funny hearing it happen to somebody else ;D

As I'm sure Jay can attest, when you're thrashing before Drag Week, parts and tools get scattered everywhere. I think I spend half my time looking for a single wrench, or a socket....or where the hell I laid that ONE bolt that I need. Walking around the car is like playing dodgeball in a mine field...lol

On a positive note, the master cylinder and wheel cylinders came Saturday, earlier than I expected. It sure is nice living in the same state as Summit! The master cylinder bled fine, so I got it installed with new lines for the dual pot. Front brakes are done, including new hoses, so I moved on to the rear....where I found out that the brake shoes I ordered through Napa a few years ago were not the right size. I have GOT to learn to check parts when I first get them! So I moved on to the little things and got my Autometer oil and water gauges mounted and ready, and the Bosch tach wired and ready. The transmission guy is getting a call tomorrow. I want this thing on the ground!
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2018, 01:22:33 AM »
Doug, Is it the Bosch tac that looks like a old Sun tac?
i had thought about buying one of those. Are you pleased
with the quality so far or?



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

GJCAT427

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2018, 04:50:49 AM »
If its the Bosch retro its a great tach. I put one in my 56 F100 and my son put one in his 64 F 350.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2018, 07:43:32 AM »
Garry, yep, it's the Retro. It's the only one that wouldn't look out of place in it, because there's nothing modern about the car.

Heo, the quality of the tach seems first rate. Very solidly built, with good chrome, 2 mounting brackets included (one flat, one curved) and solid mounting terminals inside for the wiring. It even comes with a nice clamp and rubber strip to go under it. It doesn't come with any wiring, so you have to disassemble the tach to wire it. Not a big deal because I used good ring terminals and covered my own wiring coming out of the cup with heat shrink tubing to make it neat and look nice.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:27:09 AM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2018, 11:09:03 AM »
Then i shall order one , There were the Sun Pro,s that looked
the same. but i have bad experience with Chinese stuff that have
Pro in the name ::) So i was a little sceptical. Not that i have yet
had anything Bosch  that was bad quality, from angle grinders to
kitchen stoves



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2018, 02:04:38 AM »
Finally some more progress made yesterday and tonight. Having been put off over and over in getting my transmission back, I had the chance to finish up all the brake work yesterday by replacing my front hoses, installing fresh shoes on the rear, adjusting everything and closing up the system. Today, my 83 year old Dad came by and helped me bleed them. Everything went smooth, the pedal came up good and is firm, so I think the brakes will be good to go, and much safer with the dual pot master cylinder conversion.

I FINALLY got my transmission delivered back to me this evening, pretty late. It turns out that what took him so long was that Ford was going through a transitional phase with transmissions in the mid sixties. I wont go into details, but there are multiple variations of the Fordomatic, Cruise-O-Matic and what is the beginning of the FMX transmissions that all took place in these years, with some very weird and difficult ways of differentiating between the different designs within each family. It took him 4 times in ordering parts to get the right combination to finish off the rebuild. Next time around it's either getting a C6 or I'm throwing in the 4-spd setup I have for this car!

Anyway, I got started putting the trans in at about 10:00 this evening. It's not easy doing this by yourself at night, on your back, with the car on jackstands and no proper transmission jack, all with a cast iron case transmission that exceeds the weight of any standard transmission. But by 12:00 I had it in and was ready to move on to the engine.





The hardest part getting the engine in was getting everything lined up properly with no help. I think I was up and down, in and out of the engine compartment, jumping from side to side of the car at least a hundred times before everything slid together with no resistance and the torque convertor studs lined up properly. But at 2:00am I finally had the engine in place and bolted up to the transmission and am ready to start hooking everything up.
Here's a shot of the engine in place...



 I decided to call it quits at that point and I'll be hitting it early in the morning to start the final hookups and hopefully getting the hood back on. I hope to have the engine started by Saturday so I can look for any problems and tuning issues I might have to deal with. If everything goes smooth, I hope to have the car down on it's wheels and ready to drive by the end of the weekend. That'll give me several days to get some miles on it and check everything out, and still leave me a day to get everything packed and loaded....knock on wood :P

« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 02:12:30 AM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

My427stang

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #79 on: August 31, 2018, 08:37:48 AM »
Looking good!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #80 on: August 31, 2018, 09:01:33 AM »
Remembered to put the blockplate in? :D



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

gdaddy01

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #81 on: August 31, 2018, 03:54:39 PM »
all of that work and still took the time to take pictures for all of us . thanks , I hope you remembered the block plate to . that is a sick feeling to get to this point and look over and see the plate standing against the wall .

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #82 on: August 31, 2018, 11:39:27 PM »
I never took the flexplate off, so the block plate never came off the engine. No forgetting that one!

It was relaxing just to sit down for a bit and load some pictures. It's still hard for me to go to sleep when I'm all amped up though..lol
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #83 on: September 01, 2018, 02:06:34 AM »
all of that work and still took the time to take pictures for all of us .......

This is the part I usually forget.

You're making great progress Doug.
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2018, 04:24:20 AM »
Another late night, or early morning, whichever you want to call it. Finally called it quits at 4:30 this evening, er morning, but not before I managed to knock out everything I needed to finish, with the exception of a couple minor things. All that's needed to start the engine is to put on my fuel line from pump to carb, fill it with antifreeze, fill the transmission and fill the gas tank.

I went over several details that I just didn't like, like the scrawny factory starter and battery cables. I made new cables with heavier gauge wire and soldered ends. While I was at it, I added a second ground from engine to chassis. You can never have too many grounds. I also managed to lose a torque convertor nut, and since I don't mess with automatics, of course I didn't have a spare around. With the holiday, the soonest I can get one ordered in is Wednesday or Thursday, and that was too long, so I found a 3/8 24 nut and put a grade 8 flat washer and lock washer on it, along with using red loctite on all of them. That should work ok. I should be firing it up tomorrow, er, today....whatever  :P  Since there were a few pits on the deck between cylinders 1 & 2, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the head gaskets will hold water and compression at that spot.

Here's a couple shots of the engine, ready to go, except for the fuel line I mentioned. I also managed to lose one valve cover bolt, so I have to hunt one of those up tomorrow so they match.





I double and triple checked everything under the car, greased up the front suspension and steering, topped off the rear differential lube and got my transmission lines ran, so I'm ready to throw on the front tires and and finally get it back on the ground.



Here's a shot of the gauges I added, for some peace of mind, and so I know what kind of RPM's I'm turning. With the stock bottom end, I think I'll limit the RPM's to 4500, but I might go up to 5000 if everything seems to go smoothly. Hopefully there won't be much tuning to do since the only thing I changed that might influence it was adding the RPM intake. I think the Autolite carb jets are different than Holley's, and I don't have different sizes on hand, so if it does need some tweaking, I'll have to come up with a band-aid solution on that.



Time to get a few hours sleep, then back at it.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 04:33:52 AM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2018, 07:52:43 AM »
The great thing about that Gal is that you can bring the cord of wood you use for jack stands wherever you go :)  Just busting your chops of course, that car is sure shaping up quickly.

My hunch is the carb will be close enough.  Good luck on the maiden voyage and last week of work!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2018, 09:11:35 AM »
I am going to love that big trunk! Although I'd rather have the small trailer I used with the Mach, I don't have time to come up with a hitch for it. Now I'm going to have to unload everything each day.

That wood does look sketchy, but I had to get the jackstands out from under the front so I could get my cherry picker under the car. It's braced in 2 spots on the other side for stability.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2018, 09:36:21 AM »
Wow that Gal is coming along!!! I haven't checked on it in a while. I'll have to read backwards to get the skinny on your master cylinder, Doug. Gonna do the same to the F100.

Wakey wakey Doug. Lets go for a ride!  8)
Kevin McCullah


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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #88 on: September 02, 2018, 06:24:06 PM »
Yes Doug coming along, and it looks pretty presentable. Did you clean it up or does it just look good in that last pic

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #89 on: September 02, 2018, 08:24:21 PM »
Joe, the engine actually looks really nice. Much better than the car deserves. I cleaned and painted every bolt, line, bracket...you name it. I can't take anything apart without detailing the heck out of it before I put it back together. It really is a sickness I have ???
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #90 on: September 02, 2018, 09:13:02 PM »
Taking an early break after a long couple of days and nights.

I had a productive and good day today, but not without its moments of worry and problems. I got everything finished and ready to start the engine at about 2:00. I filled the tranny with 6 quarts, with another 3 ready to add as soon as the engine was running.

Well, the engine fired immediately and ran perfect right from the get-go...for about 15 seconds, when I suddenly heard a grinding sound. That kinda freaked me out, so I looked everything over carefully but couldn't find anything wrong. Everything turned free and there were no witness marks on anything to show any metal to metal contact. I went through this 3 times, and every time it started to grind after about 10+ seconds. And I mean a loud, stomach curdling grinding. I finally slid under the car and could see some fine dust inside the bellhousing, and then I could see the teeth on the flexplate had been hitting against something. A slow turn of the engine showed that all the torque convertor nuts looked fine and I could see no other issues. I figured it had to be the starter at that point, but why after 10 seconds of running? At first I thought maybe the bendix was creeping out and engaging the ring gear, but that is just odd and not something I've ever heard of before. I started to pull the starter out when I thought about checking the solenoid, to see if somehow it was sticking, which still didn't make sense after 10 seconds of being unpowered.

I did a check with a test light and found something odd. The "Start" circuit was getting power just fine, then disengaging when I turned the key to the run position, but when I checked the "Ignition" circuit, I found that it was getting power in the run position, although it was fairly dim, so I don't think it was getting a full 12 volts. After thinking about it a minute, I came to the conclusion that after the engine started, the "Ignition" circuit was energizing the solenoid and engaging it with less than a 12 volt coil voltage. That would explain why the grinding started kinda soft, then got worse quickly. It was slowly engaging the bendix. At least that's my theory. I disconnected the "Ignition" wire from the solenoid and the problem went away. I don't know why it's feeding voltage back to the "Ignition" circuit, but at least I had figured out the issue.

Having that semi-settled, I was checking the engine out as I filled the tranny with another 3 quarts of fluid. There were zero leaks, nothing odd, no weird noises and the temp was holding rock steady at 180, the exact temp of the thermostat I put in it. It was 85 here today, so the new radiator, shroud and flex fan seemed to be doing a nice job. The oil pressure was fantastic, with 75 lbs cold, and it never went below 50 when it was hot and idling. That made me happy. With this old short block, I wanted good pressure to feed those stock bearings, and the Melling HV pump was performing great. I used Shell Rotella 15w-40 and I'll probably run that during Drag Week because of the heat down south. I did have a couple issues with the carb; one being that I noticed fuel seeping from the spacer, towards the rear of the carb. It was flooding the engine in the secondaries after I would shut the engine off, making it hard to start again if you waited a minute or two. I could see fuel spilling out of the boosters after shutoff. That explained why my idle adjustment screws weren't doing anything either, which was the other problem I had. Still, it seemed to run great, so I concentrated on other things for the time being.
Here's a shot of my gauges after being fully warmed up after a little drive, sitting and idling. That's the highest the temp gauge has gone.



After nit-picking over everything, checking the timing etc, I took it for a short drive. It drove nice, responded well to throttle adjustments, didn't pull when the brakes were applied and just generally drove like a nice '65 Galaxie should. The temp never went over 185 and the oil pressure went up to 65+ at speed. I stopped at my Dads and took him for a short ride, which he got a huge kick out of. He loves these old cars as much as we do, if not more.

After getting back home, I checked everything over good and didn't find any issues at all. The fuel seeping seemed to go away, and my idle screws were working now, so I think it was a stuck float needle on the secondaries that freed up at some point. Ya gotta love it when things fix themselves! ;D  I took it for a couple more drives, and again no issues came up. The car seemed to be settling in good, so I decided to work on some wiring issues, like no turn signals or running lights on the right side only. I also finished wiring up my tach. I started it every so often and each time it fired instantly and ran beautifully.

Here's a couple shots of the engine compartment completely done and ready to go....as of now anyway. As I mentioned to Joe, I took the time to really detail the engine and paint everything up nice, so if it won't be fast, at least it'll look decent.





And here's a short video of it running. My phones sound recording makes the engine seem a bit noisey, but it's actually pretty quiet.
https://youtu.be/qvOh56Nxsik

It's nice to finally have this thing hitting the pavement again. It needs a darn good cleaning though!



Tomorrow I'll be getting back on the wiring and taking it for a longer drive, assuming I get the turn signal issue fixed, and I'll probably change the oil to look for anything odd. I put a bottle of Crane break-in lube in it just to be on the safe side on the initial start-up.  Hopefully it'll be an eventless day with no major issues coming up!

« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 09:39:10 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #91 on: September 02, 2018, 10:00:06 PM »
Excellent Doug love the valve covers and sounds Purdy. Glad your dad got a kick out of it.
Geez Doug I don’t want to put the whammy on ya but it looks like you may have a day or two
to rest up!!!. With all the hard work I’m hoping you do.

My427stang

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2018, 08:28:44 AM »
Looking and sounding great!

The solenoid backfeed engagement has me stumped, internal to the solenoid, that circuit should be open when it retracts.  In other words, power to the I terminal in run should meet no connection and do nothing. 

In fact, power to that wire is logical and especially because it was dim because they backfeed through the resistor wire as originally both fed the positive side of the coil with no diode or anything.  (I terminal temporarily fed coil with 12V from solenoid, run circuit went through resistor wire, but both fed + side of the coil) However, clearly the solenoid didn't like it because it didn't engage anymore after you unhooked it. 

I'd have to say internal solenoid problem, any chance you have the old one to try?  If the car starts, no requirement for the I circuit, but I want to know now :)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 08:30:52 AM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

KMcCullah

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2018, 09:23:37 AM »
Sounds great Doug! Riding with dad in an FE powered hotrod is always a special time. 8)

 The grinding issue made me think you found your lost torque converter nut. But instead a strange electrical issue. How healthy is the ignition switch? Seems like something is slowly lighting the solenoid circuit?

Edit: After reading Jay's comment about the resistor possibly loosing it's rating and letting excessive voltage through. Could the voltage regulator be letting elevated voltage pass? I've had several recent issues with an old point style voltage regulator.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 10:41:48 AM by KMcCullah »
Kevin McCullah


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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2018, 09:44:59 AM »
Great diagnostic job on the solenoid problem, would've taken me days to find that.  Try a new solenoid, I don't think it should be engaging with the reduced power from the ignition circuit.  Or else, check the voltage while running on the ignition circuit, maybe the resistor wire isn't reducing the voltage as much as it should.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

My427stang

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #95 on: September 03, 2018, 03:27:14 PM »
The solenoid shouldn't be engaging from the I terminal, even if it was at 18 volts.   It's a mechanical connection that happens when the electro-mechanical solenoid engages and it is triggered by the S terminal.   That circuit is an "outie" LOL when the solenoid retracts to its "normally open" status without 12V to the S terminal, there is no place from the ignition side for power to go.

My guess something inside that solenoid is crossed up or a chunk of broken wire/metal shavings.  Easy way to check is sitting there static, put an Ohmmeter from the I terminal to the S terminal, if there is a connection, it's bad. The tween should never meet unless the solenoid is powered by the S terminal :)


---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #96 on: September 03, 2018, 09:48:31 PM »
Jay, I changed the solenoid as soon as I figured out there was an issue there. It may or may not have been part of the cause, but I have several new ones around, so it got changed out. What resistor wire are you talking about? The only resistor wire that should be on the car is the one going to the coil, which is bypassed during the start mode. I can check the ignition voltage while running, but even if the voltage was excessive, I'm not sure how that would cause it to backfeed into the solenoid. It should be a mechanical connection during the start mode only, by way of the ignition switch. That's why I mentioned that it may be an ignition switch issue....possibly. However, I don't discount any possibility at this point. One thing my electrical experience tells me is that when you're having problems tracking down an issue, you always have to expect the unexpected and look at things that you'd think would have no cause/effect relation.

The solenoid shouldn't be engaging from the I terminal, even if it was at 18 volts.

Lots of things happen that shouldn't happen, Ross ;) While I agree with your statement, the I terminal shouldn't be getting power in the run position either. That was with both connections unhooked, checking each wire with a test light. That could be a problem with the ignition switch, or it might be a ground issue somewhere. Bad or weak grounds can cause problems that will have you scratching your head for days about things that "shouldn't happen".

I honestly don't know what is causing the issue, but at this point I have other things to take care of that are more important. When I get the chance, I'll track down the issue. I will probably go ahead and run a dedicated ground from the battery to the cab of the car, just for the heck of it. Not to the chassis, because a chassis ground can get lost between the cab and chassis if things are corroded, and that can cause issues with all your grounds under the dash etc.

The other issue I had, with no turn signals or running lights on the right side, turned out to be 2 different problems. The first problem was that there was no tail light bulb in the rear ::) Don't ask me why, because I don't remember removing it, but I know the tailights worked when I drove it 8 years ago. Somebody must have broke into my garage at some point, picked the lock on my trunk and stole my 1157 bulb. :P

The front turn signal is another issue. With a cleaned socket, the running light works, but the turn signal does not. However, if I have the headlights on, the running light blinks. Slowly, but it blinks. On these cars, the front uses an 1157 bulb also, and the running light runs on the small filament, while the turn signal runs on the heavy filament, just like a rear tailight does. Why the turn signal is powering the running light, I have no idea. Again, it may be a ground issue somewhere. Something like that can take a while to track down. Since the Drag Week tech inspectors are pretty sticky about the cars being street legal, with all functions working correctly, I have to have that front turn signal working. Fortunately, since I have a limited time to deal with some of these things, all I have to do is turn on my headlights to get that light to blink...slowly..lol It'll pass that way, but I need to track down that issue as well.

I put about 50 miles on the car today, and they went by without any problems. The car ran beautifully. I had forgotten just how nice these cars ride and drive. They may not corner with a darn, but they sure are comfortable! The magic of fresh air vents and vent windows is something lost on todays people that need micro pollen filtered air in their cars! ;D And I love quad headlight cars!! Not even the new super-duper blue 'eye burning' headlights that people use today can match 4 blazing halogen bulbs! By the way, I hate those damn blue headlights.

Anyways, I'm now figuring out my packing space in the trunk and heading to the DMV tomorrow to get new tags for it. Umm, now that I mention that, did I say I had driven the car the last couple days? Forget I said that. It was a lie. I would NEVER break the law like that. 8)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 10:05:56 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

turbohunter

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #97 on: September 03, 2018, 10:52:52 PM »
Oh I long for your DMV. A few years ago I bought a fire truck when I was shooting a concert in Fort Loramie (iirc). Getting it tagged to drive across country was easy as pie.
In Calif. it would be darn near impossible.
Good luck Doug, we’ll be following.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #98 on: September 04, 2018, 06:55:03 AM »
Marc, Ohio is definitely relaxed when it comes to getting a title for a car, or tags, or inspections. They did away with road and yearly inspections MANY years ago, and they don't do exhaust checks. I've heard lots of horror stories about the California DMV. I'm glad I don't have to deal with them.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #99 on: September 04, 2018, 01:55:19 PM »
Lookin' good Doug!! Make sure your wipers are in good shape. The extended forecast is predicting rain almost all next week.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #100 on: September 04, 2018, 09:27:19 PM »
Alan, funny you mentioned that. I just changed the wipers tonight, and just checked the forecast before checking the forum. Temps are calling for high 80's and chances of popup showers and isolated storms most of the week, but it's still a bit early to be real accurate. That's pretty typical though of areas with high humidity and temps, especially in early evening when things start to cool a bit. It's been like that all summer where I live, in fact most of the eastern US has been like that all summer. I'm hoping it's just isolated popups that come and go.

I put another 40+ miles on the car tonight. The float issue didn't go away like I had hoped. It was 90 here today, and the minor flooding when fully warm and shut off was apparent again. The engine would crank for about 4+ seconds before it popped to life and you then had to clear it out.

When I got home, I popped the top of the carburetor off and it was apparent that the rear bowl was much higher than the front, so I started the car to see what was happening. You can do that on Autolite carbs because unlike Holleys, all the top of the carb does is keep the fuel from sloshing out (and of course contains the choke flap). Immediately fuel shot up out of the carb from the inlets. I've run Autolites plenty of times, and with stock fuel pumps you can typically run the engine with the top of the carb off with no issues because the fuel pressure is so low. Autolite carbs are very sensitive to fuel pressure and don't like the higher pressures that you always find on "performance" mechanical fuel pumps. That's the reason I went with a standard Carter OEM type fuel pump, but apparently they still push 4-5+ PSI, which the stock carbs don't like. They are perfectly happy with 2-3 lbs of pressure, which is fine on stock or very mild engines.

I went ahead and bent the float tab to put more pressure on the seat, and no more than half of the bowl full of fuel. The idle jets were immediately more sensitive to adjustment, and after another drive to get it fully warm, I parked it and watched the secondaries. There was no more fuel dribbling out of the venturis and all the soaking of the spacer was gone. I waited a few minutes and now the car starts at the smallest touch of the key, every time. Another spirited drive to get the engine as warm as possible produced the same effect. I couldn't be more happy with how things have gone with the engine, and being such a mild stocker, the half full bowls shouldn't cause any starvation going down the track, especially with the higher pressure than stock.

Of course there had to be SOME problem pop up, or it wouldn't be a Drag Week event. After trying them all week, the horns decided to take a vacation today. They try to blow, but sound like a mute person trying to clear their throat. Probably a grounding issue or they are just plain giving out. I'll find out tomorrow.

Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

machoneman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #101 on: September 04, 2018, 09:59:58 PM »
Take off the horns and bang then on a hard surface to loosen up rusty reed valves.
Bob Maag

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2018, 01:55:04 AM »
The qurse of the faulty horns >:( I dont know how many times i done
the last check up before tec inspection and the horn decided to quit
just that  ghnk, ghnk sound ::) its allways due to rust beacuse of
not using the horn sometimes a whack with a hammer fix it some times
you have to take the horn apart



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

My427stang

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #103 on: September 05, 2018, 06:38:45 AM »
Lots of things happen that shouldn't happen, Ross ;) While I agree with your statement, the I terminal shouldn't be getting power in the run position either.


Doug, I am not sure that is true. In fact I'd be surprised if it was, I think that wire should see resisted voltage in run

I will see if I have a book with that wiring diagram, but I think the start and run circuit both feed the coil positive without any sort of diode or separate routing.  Because the solenoid disengages, the post should no longer have battery voltage but the wire going to the I terminal post should backfeed and you should see whatever the resistor circuit is feeding the coil in RUN, usually dim on a test light.  It doesn't affect anything because the solenoid is disengaged.

Remember, the I terminal doesn't go through the ignition switch.  Envision it a a dedicated circuit from the I post to the positive side of the coil a straight wire across the valve cover directly to the coil if it helps.  Also on the positive side of the coil is the run circuit from the resistor wire.  (even though they may be spliced somewhere earlier).

1 - Cranking, solenoid activates - battery voltage to coil straight through the I wire, no switch action other than feeding the S terminal.

2 - Release the key - 12V+ from the solenoid dies, connection is broken inside solenoid, but the I wire is still connected to ignition.   At that point you will see backfeed to I wire from the run circuit

In fact, I have seen guys run their choke off the I terminal, not something I practice because the chokes are not designed for resisted power and if there is one circuit I don't want to take power away, it's the coil, but people who do it, claim success because of that backfeed

Now if you changed the solenoid and it still does engages the starter.  I'd be looking for mice or someone else's "fancy" wiring

Regardless, awesome success and love the car and I won't say anything about how prepared you are because that could bring on the bad mojo :)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2018, 09:39:07 AM »
That’s what I said and then the wiring problem occurred so I’m just gonna bud out.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #105 on: September 05, 2018, 09:53:39 AM »
Ross, after thinking about what Jay said the other day, I understood what he was saying. A severe lack of sleep has made my brain a bit mushy here lately..lol

I understand your point, and that just might be the case. The I terminal has to be in contact with the resistive wire at some point after the switch, and there probably isn't a diode to keep it from backfeeding. That would explain why it was dim on my test light. Honestly, I have never checked voltage at those terminals before because I never had a need to. Still, at this point, I have more important things to do and the car has been starting perfectly, so I'll leave that mystery for another day. It would still be a first for me to have a solenoid slowly engage a starter while being disengaged, and I'm not sure why or how that could happen, but again....electric components can do strange things. Want another example? When I went to work today, the front right turn signal was working perfectly with the headlights on/off or in the running light position...LOL! Go figure ::) I think the horns and turn signal have gotten together and formed a plan to screw with me  ;D ;D
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #106 on: September 05, 2018, 10:39:24 AM »
Keep it up Doug, you can do it!

(Do I need to bring my tools to Atlanta? just in case)

The office called and told me I need to come back to the boat despite only being off for a week due to another moron's screw up.  I informed them I have a religious holiday on the 9th and 10th.... they asked what holiday, and I said "Drag Week is in Georgia mofo's and I aint leaving!"

We'll see how that goes.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #107 on: September 05, 2018, 10:54:38 AM »
Drew, I usually do the overkill thing when it comes to tools and spare parts. I should have enough tools to disassemble the entire car if I had to, even though I know if there's one tool that I need, that'll be the one I don't bring. I appreciate the offer though.

Good luck on getting your days off. I was looking forward to meeting you. As it is, the only forum members that will be present this year will be Scott and his Dad (participating with their cars), you if you show up, and one other person mentioned going on the first day (sorry I can't remember who right at the moment; this thread has gotten much longer than I anticipated, or you guys probably want..lol).
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #108 on: September 05, 2018, 04:58:08 PM »
Thinking about it when i started my Galaxie after 10 years
there was something with lights and turn signal that fixed
it self after a while



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

KMcCullah

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2018, 09:37:24 AM »

The office called and told me I need to come back to the boat despite only being off for a week due to another moron's screw up.  I informed them I have a religious holiday on the 9th and 10th.... they asked what holiday, and I said "Drag Week is in Georgia mofo's and I aint leaving!"

We'll see how that goes.

Sing it ,Drew. So put on your yamaka...it's time to celebrate Drag Week...  ;)
Hope it works out.

Will be rooting for you, Doug. Will your son be handling shotgun duties?
Kevin McCullah


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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2018, 11:23:12 AM »
Kevin, yes, my Son is driving over from the coast of North Carolina and will be with me the whole week.

I was packing things up last night and finishing it up today. I'll be taking off on Friday to take my time getting there and to give me a much needed day of rest before the event. This last month has really worn me down.

I also finished up the last few details last night and gave it a good cleaning. I took about 10 trips around the mile to adjust the transmission modulator and kickdown rod, which I had to modify to work with the taller height of the RPM intake. You can't shift through the gears in a 1-2-3 fashion on a Cruise-O-Matic like you can nearly all other automatic transmissions. It has a Low gear detent, then a Drive detent that shifts through all 3 gears by itself, then it has a Drive 2 detent that starts out in 2nd gear. I can shift from Low to Drive manually, but then it will shift into 3rd on its own. If the kickdown and modulator aren't adjusted right, it'll shift into 3rd right away, which is what it's been doing. Not a big deal with normal driving, but not good from any performance standpoint. I was too busy with other things to mess with adjusting it, but finally got around to it last night. I also adjusted my low beam headlights last night while parked on a country mile. Right now I'm extremely happy with how the car runs and drives, just solid all around. The rear doesn't even sag when fully loaded.

Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2018, 02:23:31 PM »
Doug you can shift the C-O-M manualy. Start in low shift to drive, it shift to second,shift back to low
it will hold second gear, then you shift to drive and you get third. it is the same if you want engine
brake shift down to low and trans shift down. Atleast my 64 C-O-M mediumcase work that way
when kickdown and modulator is adjusted right

Please tell if you want a demonstration video
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 02:29:57 PM by Heo »



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2018, 02:48:01 PM »
Kevin, yes, my Son is driving over from the coast of North Carolina and will be with me the whole week.

I was packing things up last night and finishing it up today. I'll be taking off on Friday to take my time getting there and to give me a much needed day of rest before the event. This last month has really worn me down.

I also finished up the last few details last night and gave it a good cleaning. I took about 10 trips around the mile to adjust the transmission modulator and kickdown rod, which I had to modify to work with the taller height of the RPM intake. You can't shift through the gears in a 1-2-3 fashion on a Cruise-O-Matic like you can nearly all other automatic transmissions. It has a Low gear detent, then a Drive detent that shifts through all 3 gears by itself, then it has a Drive 2 detent that starts out in 2nd gear. I can shift from Low to Drive manually, but then it will shift into 3rd on its own. If the kickdown and modulator aren't adjusted right, it'll shift into 3rd right away, which is what it's been doing. Not a big deal with normal driving, but not good from any performance standpoint. I was too busy with other things to mess with adjusting it, but finally got around to it last night. I also adjusted my low beam headlights last night while parked on a country mile. Right now I'm extremely happy with how the car runs and drives, just solid all around. The rear doesn't even sag when fully loaded.
Good luck Doug, wish I could be there. As far as shifting the C-O-M goes, I found that when you shift from low to drive if you pull the shifter back to low it will hold it in second gear. Then shift back to drive for 3rd gear. Don't ask me how I figured this out because it doesn't sound like a very logical(or smart) thing to do. At least it worked on the '66 Galaxie I had back in high school.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2018, 03:33:24 PM »
Wow, thanks Heo and Alan! I do recall hearing that many many years ago, but had totally forgotten about it. That's very useful info! I would have been afraid to try that, thinking it would slam it back into 1st and over-rev the engine.

Alan, it just won't be the same without seeing you there. It was always nice having a familiar face to chat with. You've got a year to get your problems sorted out for the next event. :)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

e philpott

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2018, 04:04:42 PM »

Good luck Doug, wish I could be there. As far as shifting the C-O-M goes, I found that when you shift from low to drive if you pull the shifter back to low it will hold it in second gear. Then shift back to drive for 3rd gear. Don't ask me how I figured this out because it doesn't sound like a very logical(or smart) thing to do. At least it worked on the '66 Galaxie I had back in high school.
[/quote]

My 65 T Bird from high school shifted the same way and good Luck Doug
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 04:21:38 PM by e philpott »

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #115 on: September 06, 2018, 04:50:20 PM »
Doug, Like the saying goes...Its only kinky the first time ;D
I must say i had my doubt first time i tried shifting like that



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Barry_R

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #116 on: September 06, 2018, 04:56:52 PM »
Good Luck!

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2018, 06:30:54 PM »
Yes good luck Doug we will be rooting you on

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #118 on: September 06, 2018, 08:04:23 PM »
Good luck Doug. Carry the FE for the rest of us. Here’s to safe travels and a trouble free trip.
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #119 on: September 06, 2018, 10:21:39 PM »
Well, just when you think you have everything licked....

I changed the oil tonight and found no issues with it. It came out looking good, the filter looked good and the magnetic plug didn't show a single sign of any metal. I refilled the engine with the 15w-40 that I was using, and with the breather off, I started the engine and watched inside. I couldn't see ANY oil flowing. I checked the other side and saw the same thing, no oil flowing. I went ahead and pulled off the valve cover and started the engine again. Again, I couldn't see any oil flowing. On the off chance I made a mistake putting the wrong rocker stand bolt in the wrong location, I pulled the proper bolt out and saw that it was the necked down bolt that it should have in that place.

I have no idea why this is happening. With the engine warm, there is just a tiny, very tiny, amount of oil getting to the pushrod. It's not even enough to run down the pushrod, or fill up the bottom of the head. And normally you should have oil being shot at the valve tip and running down the valve spring, and I'm getting none of that. There is literally no oil pooling in the head at all, and I can rev the engine with the valve cover off and not get a single drop of oil thrown anywhere. If there were a plug that came out in the upper passages, I don't think there's any way I'd have the good oil pressure that I have. I can't imagine that the oil passages are plugged, but given the crud that was in the engine, that may be a possibility.

At this point there's nothing I can do. I either scrap the idea of going, or run it and hope that the cam and lift is mild enough that the valve springs will survive and that I don't destroy the valve tips or rockers. I thought about going back to 10w-30 oil in the hopes that the thinner oil might flow a little better. I might change the oil again in the morning before I take off.

I'm open to any and all suggestions, although I don't see a remedy for this except for possibly thinner oil. It was 90* here today, so it's not like the 15w-40 was real thick either.

Edit to say THANKS for everyones good wishes and support!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 10:26:10 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #120 on: September 06, 2018, 10:54:10 PM »
Wow that’s tough Doug. What you can do is pull coil wire and take that bolt out
in the oil port to rockers take distributor out and prime and see if oil is coming out.
Yeah I know at this time it sucks. Are you using studs as head bolts or stock bolts.
I had the studs and the stud was stopping flow to the top.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #121 on: September 07, 2018, 12:15:57 AM »
All stock hardware, so nothing there that could be causing the issue.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #122 on: September 07, 2018, 03:16:47 AM »
If you dump the oil put in some thin oil perhaps ATF remove rocker stands
and prime it. Perhaps it will flush out the crud after a while since you have some
circulation?



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

sixty9cobra

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #123 on: September 07, 2018, 05:52:52 AM »
I wouldn't run it the top end will have no oil cooling the valve train. possible head gasket blocking the oil gallery.

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #124 on: September 07, 2018, 06:34:22 AM »
If you’re not getting oil to either head, what’s the chance that you pushed out an oil galley plug out of one of the cross overs for the lifter galleys?? How hard would it be to pull the distributor and prime with a drill and watch that area? Or possibly, the one near the distributor?
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #125 on: September 07, 2018, 06:53:16 AM »
There's no way that a plug came out. I didn't even disturb them while cleaning the lifter valley, plus the engine still has 70 lbs of pressure cold and 40-45 lbs while hot and idling at 500 rpm in gear. Exactly the same as when I first started it. I just can't see it having that much pressure if a plug were missing.

I might try what Heo suggested and pull a rocker shaft to see if anything flushes out, or at the very least, do what Joe suggested and pull the oiling bolt to see what kind of flow there is and go from there. My gut agrees with Harry, that I shouldn't run it like this. This just makes me sick.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #126 on: September 07, 2018, 07:25:15 AM »
On the European  Ford V6 from the 70s  the cambearing rotated so the rocker got no oil
there was several solutions to get them going a few months more or to sell them , dunk sponges in oil
and stuff under the valvecovers, i even found a loaf of bread under the covers on one ;D
have an oilcan with you and remove covers or the real serious drilled holes i the covers on strategic spots
with plugs and lubed through the holes  and lube when they started to twitter  :D some got them running for a couple of years more
I know not an option for you but....



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Barry_R

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #127 on: September 07, 2018, 09:09:40 AM »
If shafts are clean....

Rocker bolt is up against the side of the rocker shaft mounting holes or head bolt is against the side of the head bolt hole.  I have seen this two or three times over the years.  Just a tolerance and assembly stack up deal.  Remove the offending fastener and spin the oil pump  over - if it squirts out you found the issue.  Air gun to blow the oil out of the threads, turn the bolt shank down, and reassemble.

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #128 on: September 07, 2018, 11:25:58 AM »
Doug what Barry is saying is what I was trying to explain happened to my motor, fortunately caught it while priming.

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #129 on: September 07, 2018, 11:42:19 AM »
it happens with stock parts.
been there.
done that.

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #130 on: September 07, 2018, 01:18:59 PM »
I found the problem. Quick update then getting a bite to eat, cleaned up, then hitting the road.

The shafts were new, detailed several pages back when I used new HS shafts and factory adjustable rockers.
Here's a picture I posted of what I used...


You can't see it in the picture, but there was only a single small oiling hole on those shafts for the rockers. Smaller than the single hole, non-grooved original shafts. The rockers weren't tight, they seemed about right on the shaft although I didn't measure.

First, I tried switching to 10w-30 oil, but there was no change. I took a probe light and peered down under the intake, but it was difficult to see much with the valley tin in place. Still, I could see oil flowing over the lifters, but not gushing anywhere like you'd expect to see if a plug had popped out. Next I pulled the necked down bolt out and cranked the engine over. Lots of oil coming out of the stand then, so I immediately thought about the shafts. Then I remembered about that small oiling hole, which I didn't like at the time when I was assembling them, but I had used HS shafts before like this without issues. I looked on my shelf of parts and found a nice set of old shafts that have the groove in the bottom hole and a second hole towards the rear of the rocker. Knowing that old shafts can hold a lot of crud, I went through 6 cans of brake cleaner and LOTS of air pressure before all the brake clean ran out clear and no crud was coming out. You'd be surprised at how much crap those shafts can hold! I assembled all the rockers and stands on the old shafts and reinstalled one side, cranked the engine over, and BINGO, I had lots of oil oozing out of the rockers and down the pushrods. That seemed to cure it! I did the other side the same way and had the same results. So both sides are now flowing oil good to the pushrods and I have oil flowing down into the head.

Apparently, even with the grooves in the rockers, there just wasn't enough oil getting through that small hole to feed the valvetrain. The old shafts I replaced them with have a bigger hole and the angled groove that allows oil to feed the bottom of the rocker. The second hole helps also, I'm sure. I don't remember where I got the older shafts from, but I'm sure glad I had them! They were in really good shape with practically no scoring at all, so I don't forsee any problems using them.

So that's where I'm at, a little behind schedule, but with more piece of mind. I'm just glad I decided to look into the head after that oil change, or I'd have never known about this issue. It's not something I even considered since all these parts were used in the past, except those HS shafts.

I'd post detailed pictures, but my phone chords are already packed and I'm a bit pressed for time. I'll try to post them later.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 01:23:30 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Heo

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #131 on: September 07, 2018, 01:26:13 PM »
Congratulation on solving the problem



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Bolted to Floor

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #132 on: September 07, 2018, 01:48:44 PM »
That's great. Givem hell this week.
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

cjshaker

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #133 on: September 07, 2018, 02:23:47 PM »
That's great. Givem hell this week.

I think hell has already arrived. Now there are massive rains moving into my area, with flash flooding, and the traffic on I75 is coded red just 2 hours south of me. Then there's Hurricane Florence that's predicted to either skirt up the east coast or hit North Carolina on Wednesday, exactly when we're supposed to be in that state. Not to mention the rain front that is moving in from the west, pretty much down the whole eastern U.S. I'll tell ya, I've about had it with all the setbacks, and now predictions of a really crappy week for the entire time in the area of Drag Week. I'm not a person that believes in 'signs', but.....
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #134 on: September 07, 2018, 03:23:11 PM »
Listen just have fun its still better than work. Did you say your wipers work well!!!?????. ::) ;)

AlanCasida

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Re: Getting started for Drag Week 2018
« Reply #135 on: September 07, 2018, 03:31:02 PM »
At least you have nice to relax in at the track. On my first DW we had rain two days and while guys with their small cars with roll cages were all out huddled under tarps and such  I was stretched out in the front seat of the old Gal high and dry taking a nap! :)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 03:43:20 PM by AlanCasida »