Author Topic: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012  (Read 10758 times)

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jayb

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August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« on: August 18, 2012, 10:49:46 PM »
I'm typing this Saturday night, after spending every night this week working for several hours on the Drag Week projects, and also spending a 14 hour day today on getting the engine installed and hooked up in the Mach 1.  Once again there have been several unexpected problems that are conspiring to keep me from making the event - with any of the cars.  First on this list is problems with my second pair of high port SOHC heads.  The heads are still at the machine shop, waiting to be finished up so that I can put them on the short block and finish assembling the big SOHC.  I was hoping to get these heads back early this week, but they were taking longer than the shop expected, and then they called me on Friday morning with some very bad news.  Apparently, they were ready to finish the valve job on Friday but before they did so they ran a pressure check on the heads.  Both heads leak into two of the exhaust ports!  I didn't have any problems with my first set of these heads, but on the second set I was apparently not so lucky.  This isn't a deal killer on the heads; they are going to get welded up next week, and hopefully after that they will pass the pressure check and will be finished up.  But from a time standpoint it really hurts; I need to leave for Drag Week 3 weeks from today.  There's no way now that I can get that engine together, dynoed, and installed in the car in time to make it to the track prior to the event, and it may not be possible to even get to the event with the Shelby clone if the heads don't get finished up fairly quickly.  So this is a big setback on that car.

With the Shelby clone up in the air I focused on the Mach 1.  Thursday night Steve and I got the high riser engine off the dyno, and Friday night I worked on cleaning up the shop a little and getting the engine prepared to go in the car.  Saturday morning Joel and BradFORD came over to help with the installation.  Joel had to leave by 11:00, but when he left the engine/trans assembly was ready to go.  Here's a picture of the engine and trans on the hoist, being rolled over by the Mach 1, and then up in the air ready for the install:





It took a couple hours of monkeying around, but we finally got the engine jockeyed into position.  Here's a photo of BradFORD perched on the back of the motor about halfway through this process:



After getting the engine installed and bolted down, the front suspension reinstalled (the drag link now goes through the hole in the oil pan), the driveshaft yoke swapped and driveshaft fit, etc., we brought the car down off the lift and I decided to install the intake manifold setup.  I was anxious to see how far it came through the hood, so that I had a better idea of what would be required for the hood scoop.  Here's a pic of the intake on the engine:



To be honest, I was very disappointed with how far the throttle bodies came out of the engine compartment.  They were easily a couple inches higher than I had expected them to be.  My concept for the Mach 1 was to try to maintain a somewhat stock feel, despite the radical engine.  But the throttle bodies coming that far through the hood seem to make that concept an impossibility.  I wasn't trying to create another cookie cutter race car with an induction system that sticks way out of the hood, my idea was to keep a low profile but still go really fast.  The position of the induction system seemed to change the whole theme of the car, and I didn't like it at all.

Thinking that it may be better than it looked, BradFORD and I cut the required hole in my fiberglass hood and put it in place on the car.  It did look a little better, but it was still way too high.  My pal Steve worked on a fiberglass replica of the shaker hood scoop, and had stretched it to fit over the two throttle bodies.  He did a really nice job on this, and step two was going to be making the hood scoop a couple of inches higher, to increase the size of the scoop opening and cover the throttle bodies where they stuck through the hood.  But even with this stretch, the bottom of the hood scoop would still be a couple of inches above the hood line.  I'd have to make a secondary bump or something to raise the middle of the hood up to meet the bottom of the scoop.  Or, I could stretch the scoop further than the plan, maybe to a 6 inch height instead of a 3 inch height, but I'm not sure that would look very good.  To try to get a better sense of this, I put some 3 inch spacer blocks on top of the throttle bodies, and put the hood scoop as it is now in position (I used the spacer blocks because I think I need 3" over the throttle bodies to ensure decent airflow in them).  Here's a photo:



After staring at this a while, I concluded that the throttle bodies are just two inches too high, period.  And I've already taken the 1" spacer out that I dyno tested last week, so there is no way to lower them at this point. 

I also kicked around the idea of an intake swap.  Quite a while back I acquired a Dove tunnel wedge that was designed for the high riser heads.  I welded it up and sent it down to Joe Craine, who ported it for me.  If I pull all the fancy intake stuff off this engine and bolt that manifold on, the throttle bodies will be plenty low, and I can use the shaker concept as I had originally envisioned it.  But there are several problems with this approach; one is that I'd have to weld injector bungs into the intake, make new fuel rails, etc in order to use the EFI system.  Or, I could run carbs, and just use the EFI setup to run the distributorless ignition system, but then I'd have to pick up a couple carb and somehow get them tuned prior to the event.  And even if I stuck with EFI on this intake, suddenly my dyno data is out the window, and I don't know how much, if any, I'd be down on horsepower.  So my new converter might not work, my rear end gears might not be right, etc.  Lots of potential problems there... :o

I'm going to sleep on this situation tonight and try to figure out what to do.  Joel is coming over again tomorrow and I'm sure he'll have some useful input.  Any suggestions from the forum are appreciated also - Jay





Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fetorino

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2012, 11:46:15 PM »
I don't know how useful my opinion will be but I'll give it a shot.

At this point you need to solve your idle problem and don't need to create a problem with your gears or torque converter so I'd run what you've brung (built).

How about bonding the fake shaker to the hood sitting over the top of the TBs with two holes in top of the fake scoop for TBs to just barely poke through. (if only your TBs were black anodized).  From a distance it would just look like a shaker scoop.  It wouldn't be until you were right up on it that you could really see what is happening.

The shaker becomes the hump in your hood to camouflage the intake.

Heo

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2012, 07:09:31 AM »
One idea if you cut away the top of the scoop and replace it with a mesch
of some kind. You can make the same pattern on the mesh thats on the
top now. Then you gain 3 inch. And painted black you have to be close
to see the differense. Dont kow how it works with the flow of air though
Or you can just drill a lot of small holes betwen the "fins" on the top
that is the same total area as the throttle bodies
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 07:39:56 AM by Heo »



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JamesonRacing

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2012, 08:04:27 AM »
Wow, you've come so far on this installation, you may be best served to ensure the mechanicals are solid and get the car on the road/track as is.  You don't know what gremlin is lurking out there to keep you from finishing drag week, best to find it in the next three weeks.

I wouldn't sweat the hood issue, finish up the details and the answer will come.  I personally think having a pair of throttle bodies above the hood line looks pretty cool. 

How tall would a Boss 429 scoop have to be to cover the throttle bodies?
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My427stang

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2012, 08:33:45 AM »
I have a question that would answer it for me

Barring something breaking, do you expect this one to stay together for a while? 

If so, I'd bite the bullet and prep the other manifold and do an in car swap.  Then you can make the shaker and have the design you want.

If the motor is coming back out, or you have additional plans to go back to some sort of sheet metal intake later, slap an aftermarket Boss 9 tall scoop on it, shoot it all green and go racing

To be honest, I think I'd probably build that other intake because I like to hide things
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Ross

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- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

65er

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2012, 08:51:23 AM »
After all the setup and testing done I wouldn't touch the motor.   I'd definitely see if I couldn't fit one of these things into my vision of how it should look... http://www.amazon.com/Mota-Performance-A10171-Dual-Scoop/dp/B002ZMR4SC

Maybe paint it and the hood matte black or charcoal grey or something?
-Wade

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Cyclone03

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2012, 11:57:27 AM »
Not that it matters...LOL.

Stay with the as Dyno'd set up installed. You dont have time to change that package now.

As for the hood scoop. Does the engine HAVE to be covered by rule? If not fab up the "shakerish" scoop as is and let the TB's show under it and track test.
Lance H

jayb

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2012, 10:15:32 PM »
So after giving this some more thought last night and this morning, I concluded (like many of the responses above suggested) that I had to stick with the combination as it is rather than try to change intakes.  I also concluded that I didn't want to try to stretch the hood scoop down so that it extended all the way to the hood, so I needed to make some kind of platform that raised the center portion of the hood, so that the scoop would extend down to it abut 3" or so.  Doing this from scratch would have been the best way, but of course there's no time for that, so I went looking for a hood scoop that I could modify and make work.  I was initially thinking of one of those old two piece pro stock style scoops, but I ended up finding this on the Summit web site:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSE-950-72112/

It's just about the right height, but I may have to trim it a little.  Looks like on top there is a fairly flat surface that will function as a nice platform for the shaker scoop.  And since nearly the whole hood is flat black, I'm hoping that the lump created by this scoop will be as unobtrusive as possible.

So at least I've got a plan now.  I spent the day working on getting the Mach 1 assembled.  Joel came over to help this afternoon, and we pretty much got done with everything under the car, and now are working on the engine compartment.  There is quite a bit to do there to make the conversion from the supercharged engine to the high riser, and I'm guessing this will take most of the week.  However, I think I can get the car running by next weekend, since I have extra time to work on it while waiting for my SOHC heads to get welded up and finished at the machine shop.  Hopefully that happens ASAP; we'll see what happens.  I'll post another update next weekend.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 10:12:29 AM »
Good move methinks on sticking with the program....current intake and all. Like the scoop resolution as well.

But, and perhaps I missed this earlier, will you run at the track with that Mach 1 scoop? I 'm trying to wrap my head around how small that front opening is, assuming it's the stock size, versus the cfm requirements of your monster FE and come up short.  There is a formula I used long ago to help some pals out on scoop sizing but.......

On edit: went digging on the 'Web and found it:

http://racecarbook.com/articles/airscoopsize.shtml
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 10:18:22 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

jayb

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 11:40:22 AM »
Thanks for the link, that is very interesting stuff.  The idea for the shaker scoop is to slice it and make it taller, to increase the size of the scoop opening.  My formula for this was much simpler than the one shown in the link, I just wanted to have the total area of the throttle butterflies in the throttle bodies be the same as the total area of the scoop opening.  This is right about 30 square inches.  The scoop is about 10" wide, so I was going to section it so that it would be about 3" tall, and get my 30 square inches that way.

I plugged my numbers into the formula shown in the link, using 1050 cfm for the engine's air requirement, and got positive pressure in the scoop at 57 MPH, which is about the same as their IHRA pro stock example.  If I remained with the stock scoop opening, the MPH for positive pressure goes up to 171 MPH.  I'll never see that in this car LOL!  Going to a 30 square inch opening is probably pretty close to where I need to be...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

machoneman

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 11:48:28 AM »
Good!
Bob Maag

cammerfe

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 05:54:31 PM »
Jay, FWIW---

The 'looks' thing is very subjective. If you changed the engine, you'd be, potentially fouling-up the function of your car and that negates the very reason to go on 'Drag-Week'.

After you've proven the functionality of your car, you can always go back and get everything closer to your vision.

In other words, you're doing it right!!!

KS

cdmbill2

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 11:11:08 AM »
Jay, as you know I faced this same issue last year with my dual TB tunnel ram setup and I wanted to stay in the Ford family and era scoop wise but I'd given up on a purely 71 429 CJ hood modified to fit. This link (i couldn't copy the picture) shows where I am as of last weekend. I expect to get paint on the two tone primer next week.The combination is a race weight Unlimited Products pin on 71-73 Mach 1 style hood with a 5" tall scaled up Boss 429 scoop. The air cleaner pan I made for the intake is just high enough to clear the linkage and the filter is a 16x3.5" round which i squeeze into an oval.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9158786@N08/7833802128/in/set-72157631182270788/






cdmbill2

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2012, 11:18:07 AM »
Jay, the other reason I went with Accufab throttle bodies is because they are a full inch shorter than most of the others out there.

jayb

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Re: August 18, 2012 - The Road to Drag Week 2012
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2012, 07:49:17 PM »
That's a good looking setup Bill, and I like your scoop solution.  I wish I had known that Accufab throttle bodies were that much shorter; that would have helped me out a great deal on my setup.  I'm using Wilson throttle bodies, and they are pretty tall...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC