69 Torino Cobra - How many leaves in the rear springs?

[jayb]

I'm currently tearing into the back half of my Torino Cobra to do brakes, clean and paint the axle housing, add new rubber parts, new shocks, etc. etc.  I'm trying to keep this one more or less stock, and want to replace the leaf springs with factory style springs.  Tearing it apart tonight, I was surprised to find that the springs have seven leaves.  Seems like a lot.  Some of the replacement leaf springs I've found online show four leaves for a 69 Torino, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Torino Cobras had more.  But seven??

Anybody know how many leaves were stock in the rear springs of these cars?

[FElony]

I'm currently tearing into the back half of my Torino Cobra to do brakes, clean and paint the axle housing, add new rubber parts, new shocks, etc. etc.  I'm trying to keep this one more or less stock, and want to replace the leaf springs with factory style springs.  Tearing it apart tonight, I was surprised to find that the springs have seven leaves.  Seems like a lot.  Some of the replacement leaf springs I've found online show four leaves for a 69 Torino, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Torino Cobras had more.  But seven??

Anybody know how many leaves were stock in the rear springs of these cars?

Four was it. Somebody been gootchin' with your Snake, probably because four doesn't cut it. Twist with an auto, hop with a stick. When did you get this?

Gonna put power down? CalTracs or, if you wanna be sneaky, look hard at Mopar's solution.

[jayb]

I've had it about three years, here's the original thread where I purchased it.  Pics on page 2:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=2795.0


I'm going to put my 492" engine in it, I think, back it down to 575-600 HP with a smaller cam and hope the trans and rear end will live.  I'm going to keep the stock style rear suspension with slapper bars just because it had them back in the day, kind of keeping it a throwback car.  The only reason I'm working on it now is because I pulled it off the trailer a week ago and found that over the winter the brakes had completely disappeared.  So, I'm going through all the brakes, putting on new wheels and tires, and revamping the rear end since I'm going in there anyway.  Hopefully I can get it mobile again in the next couple weeks...

[WerbyFord]

Restoration book I have says the same.
4 leafs for all, 68-69
5 leafs for some Ranchero and Convertibles.

Back in the day a good friend of ours had a daily driver Torino, stock 6-cylinder. Not sure I've ever even seen one.
He was happy with it. Much faster than his Model T.

[FElony]

Restoration book I have says the same.
4 leafs for all, 68-69
5 leafs for some Ranchero and Convertibles.

Back in the day a good friend of ours had a daily driver Torino, stock 6-cylinder. Not sure I've ever even seen one.
He was happy with it. Much faster than his Model T.

I have F-, H-, M-, S-, and Q-code Rancheros, and they are all 5-leaf. That leaves the 250 6-banger (base engine in all but Cobra and GT) unverified. I'm sure all the wagons are the same (5 leaf). My '67 S-code stick convertible has 4; might have changed by 68 or 69 but I doubt it. Ford was waaay behind Mopar in providing adequate suspension.

[FElony]

... and found that over the winter the brakes had completely disappeared.

So, Barry came over for tea and crumpets?

I read through the old thread. Must have missed it originally. A few mistakes in the replies here and there, but the most important thing is that this is a Cobra, not a Fairlane or Torino. It is its own model with its own body code, and nowhere on it does it have anything other than Cobra emblems and FORD lettering. 1970 was when we saw the first Torino Cobra.

If you put this in Projects, I can weigh in if you want. Or not, if you got it handled. In either case, good score!

[jayb]

Yes, that's interesting.  I've always seen them referred to as Fairlane Cobras or Torino Cobras, but I guess officially they are just Cobras; says so right on the Marti Report.  The guy I bought it from called it a Torino Cobra.  They advertise them on ebay as Torino Cobras or Fairlane Cobras.  Just calling it a Cobra makes you think of the earlier Cobras.  But, if that's what it is...

I will start a member projects thread on this one, but it will be one of those with long gaps in the posts, because after I get done with the brakes and rear suspension, it will probably be a while before I get to the bodywork.  Got other stuff in line in front of it...

[e philpott]

Moon shine runner perhaps? Unless evidence of a trailer hitch

[FElony]

....  Got other stuff in line in front of it...

Cool. Don't forget about torinocobra.com. Lots of specific info there. And

http://www.martyburkemotorsports.com/parts.htm

[WerbyFord]

... and found that over the winter the brakes had completely disappeared.

So, Barry came over for tea and crumpets?

I read through the old thread. Must have missed it originally. A few mistakes in the replies here and there, but the most important thing is that this is a Cobra, not a Fairlane or Torino. It is its own model with its own body code, and nowhere on it does it have anything other than Cobra emblems and FORD lettering. 1970 was when we saw the first Torino Cobra.

The Cobra thing is kinda weird. You can find many answers.
In the 1969 Shop Manual, theyre all Fairlanes, in the FAIRLANE section. Theres a Fairlane Fairlane, a Fairlane Torino, and a Fairlane Cobra.
The 1969 mailer "Presenting the better idea cars for 1969" (addressed to my dad at our old address, suburb of the "D") is the same. All prices are in the FAIRLANE section, for the Fairlane Fairlane, the Fairlane Torino, and the Fairlane Cobra.
In that same mailer, there is a FORD section. There s a FORD custom, a FORD galaxie, and a FORD XL. I guess this means that some year, the XL stopped being a Galaxie. Funny, I cant recall now what our WerbyFord car (an early 69 XL) said - did it say Galaxie anywhere? I just don't remember.

The 1970 Shop Manual is the same layout as 1969.

HOWEVER - I have Ford ads from 1969 that show Petty's "East Tenn Torino Cobra", and the text of the ad also says "Torino Cobra". Maybe "Torino Cobra" meant you got either the 427 TP or the 429 Boss. Sure it did. This ad refers to the win at Dahytona which means Feb 69 at the earliest.

I also have a Brochure that has a Fairlane page (no Torino or Cobra), and a Torino page, which includes the Cobra though they never refer to it as
"Torino Cobra".

My 1970 Torino Brochure, Jan 70, lists all the Fairlanes, Torino, Cobras, and refers to the Torino Cobra.
Then again, my mid-70 SCJ Cobra didn't say Torino anywhere on it. It did say Fairlane inside the glove box.

So, is the Cobra a Fairlane? Yes and No.
Is the Cobra a Torino? Yes and No.
Is the XL a Galaxie? Yes (1964) and apparently No (1969). In between, now I have to look at a bunch of other stuff.

back in the day, in the "D", your goal was just to find a cheap ($1200 or less) rust-free big block car. You didn't really care what it was called or what head castings it had on it. That was the easy stuff.

[FElony]

I've been in the intermediate niche of this hobby for a long, long time. The Nascar thing was a separate marketing situation that had no bearing on what Ford did with production cars in '69. As I said, the Cobra hardtop and the Cobra sportsroof had their own body codes (VIN 45 and 46, respectively) that were different than Fairlanes and Torinos, thus making them unique sub-models. Yes, I have called them Fairlane Cobras in the past, for the same reason that Jay mentioned. But, correct is correct.

I have two, both R-codes. One Gulfstream Aqua stick and one New Lime auto. Both are complete and rust-free dead-stock down to the C9 mufflers. If you hang out in the TC forum, you'll see other owners with the same facts.

[turbohunter]

I have two, both R-codes. One Gulfstream Aqua stick and one New Lime auto. Both are complete and rust-free dead-stock down to the C9 mufflers.

Kinda gettin’ me horny with all this talk.

[jayb]

Easy, big fella...

[FElony]

I have two, both R-codes. One Gulfstream Aqua stick and one New Lime auto. Both are complete and rust-free dead-stock down to the C9 mufflers.

Kinda gettin’ me horny with all this talk.

Thank God there's 450 miles separating us.

Notice nobody ever asked me about the ultra super hyper mega rare CJ I have, despite me dropping hints. I feel unloved.

Edit: Well, OK, felt really nefarious when my post count was at 666 earlier today. 'Cuz that's how I roll.

[Richard F]

... and found that over the winter the brakes had completely disappeared.

So, Barry came over for tea and crumpets?

I read through the old thread. Must have missed it originally. A few mistakes in the replies here and there, but the most important thing is that this is a Cobra, not a Fairlane or Torino. It is its own model with its own body code, and nowhere on it does it have anything other than Cobra emblems and FORD lettering. 1970 was when we saw the first Torino Cobra.

If you put this in Projects, I can weigh in if you want. Or not, if you got it handled. In either case, good score!

When I had mine, it was titled a Fairlane (North Carolina).  There were no Torino or Fairlane emblems on it, just Cobra.  Man I wish I still had it.....

[wayne]

I think i would put one more leaf then stock they were weak when new.I have several 66-69 fairlanes they all were bumper draggers with two in the back i have 69 now just a small block car.

[machoneman]

Jay may be better off, considering his powerful FE stable of engines, switching now to the Calvert style of springs and traction bars. The 7 leafs and old school t-bars would still work well for traction but suffer from ride quality in comparison.

[Blueoval77]

Jay was there any bias to the springs to one side or the other ? Any signs of the regular stiffening upgrades up front ? Ive seen springs added for circle track and ive seen springs added when the originals needed replacing .
Pretty sure we still have an all original Cobra in town here . I can look the guy up if the mystery persists.

[jayb]

I think i would put one more leaf then stock they were weak when new.I have several 66-69 fairlanes they all were bumper draggers with two in the back i have 69 now just a small block car.

That's an interesting idea, I have ordered new leaf springs for the car but I think I'll keep some of the old leaves around in case I want to add one...

[jayb]

Jay was there any bias to the springs to one side or the other ? Any signs of the regular stiffening upgrades up front ? Ive seen springs added for circle track and ive seen springs added when the originals needed replacing .
Pretty sure we still have an all original Cobra in town here . I can look the guy up if the mystery persists.

I think its pretty clear now that four leaves were what came on the car.  No bias from side to side in the rear, and no stiffening upgrades that I can see in the front.  At this point I'm going to get the work done over the next week or so, then drop the car back down off the jackstands and see how it sits and drives.

[Blueoval77]

For what its worth I have known the one here in my town since I was a teen (Actually one of the sets of headers I have came off it) and it was always sitting pretty perky in the ass end.
The thing went through the regular phase of mods and racing after it was new and then the guy put it back all stock . I am betting its spent the majority of its life sitting in the garage now.

[Dumpling]

I had new leaf springs installed, at an actual spring shop.
The older guy seemed really knowledgeable about springs.
The originals were kinda sagging.  I told him I wanted the rear to be higher and firmer, and he came through.

Is every spring leaf the same across suppliers?
Or are some stiffer than other brands?

[jayb]

I think the spring steel and temper are the same, but the amount of arch that is put into the springs can vary.  Back in the 80s I had a local spring shop de-arch the back springs of my 68 Shelby, in order to get it lower without using those lowering blocks.  When I ordered springs for this car, they mentioned the arch was 8", which I assume is the height of the spring above the floor when it is placed on the floor upside down.  If I went with a custom spring I could probably get that arch changed, but I'm going to go with stock first and see how it looks...

[wayne]

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One of the old ford books says to put one more leaf on the right side and clamps on the springs to go drag racing.









O

[machoneman]

Jay, you may know this already but the better Mustang shops offer std., reverse & mid-eye springs (front pivot). I don't know if they would work though on your ride (length?).

I think the spring steel and temper are the same, but the amount of arch that is put into the springs can vary.  Back in the 80s I had a local spring shop de-arch the back springs of my 68 Shelby, in order to get it lower without using those lowering blocks.  When I ordered springs for this car, they mentioned the arch was 8", which I assume is the height of the spring above the floor when it is placed on the floor upside down.  If I went with a custom spring I could probably get that arch changed, but I'm going to go with stock first and see how it looks...

[TripleJ]

FElony, if ya don’t mind me asking, what is the “ Mopar solution”?  Thanks


Joe Menard   

[FElony]

FElony, if ya don’t mind me asking, what is the “ Mopar solution”?  Thanks


Joe Menard   

In the early 60's, the Chrysler products relied heavily on pinion snubber "science" to force the axle down under spring wrapup. This worked well on the track, but narrow snubber gaps caused a lot of undesirable bounce in street driving. Nevertheless, relatively soft production spring rates made the snubber work the best.

In the later 60's, Chrysler's approach changed to eliminate the snubber bounce with the HD suspension production option. In the B-bodies, this entailed a 6-leaf spring pack on the right and a 4-leaf on the left that offset torque application. To stop axle tramping, the front of the springs, as measured from the axle mounts, were shorter than the rears. Fords are much longer, allowing more twist.

For added power handling, Direct Connection (now Mopar Performance) offered the Super Stock spring package over the counter. This included 7 springs on the right and 5 on the left. Pushing down on the back of a car with these results in very little movement.

The added right springs are half-leaf to the front, effectively making them clamp-on traction bars. Neither the HD or SS springs made the car tilt when viewed from the rear. I recall the DC also sold an adjustable pinion snubber kit for those who wanted to go that route. I have the SS springs on my Road Runner and factory HD's on my Satellite.

So, Jay's stock replacement springs, as wayne mentioned, will be low and weak. However, he can now use the leftover springs to tailor to the application, if he goes that way. His traction bars are meant to prevent axle hop on rapid deceleration, especially with stick cars. I have seen them before, but knocking my head against the wall several times did not result in a brand name. I have some dry wall to fix, though. If he goes Day Two, I think standard snubber bars or Lakewood J-bolts would be better.

[TripleJ]

FElony, thanks for the detailed explanation. Always learning something new here!