Author Topic: Will FPA Tri-Y headers support 700hp? (Read 9649 times)

N2950H · « **on:** May 17, 2018, 08:07:03 AM »

Now that I've settled on an engine combo, I'm starting to think about what headers would be best for my application. I have the builder working on a 427/520 that will likely be putting out somewhere between 650 and 700hp and I'll be running a Dynamic C6. This car will be almost entirely a weekend cruiser and it is lowered a little bit.

I have been talking with Stan and FPA about his Tri-Y headers but putting shorties on that motor goes against everything I know (which admittedly is very little in the FE world). I wanted to go with a good set of longtubes but am worried about banging the collector on speed bumps, having to cut the inner fender well, etc.

So my question...will the FPA headers support this power level, or will I be leaving a lot on the table with shorties? If I had $2k-ish in the budget I'd go OEM cast iron, but I'm thinking more in the $1k range before coating.

chilly460 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2018, 08:24:25 AM »

All the Tri-Ys I know of are 1 3/4", that's going to be small for 700hp level. There are a lot of variables, but 1 3/4" starts to hinder at the 550hp level.

I don't have Jay's book in front of me but know the Tri-Ys were down a fair bit from 4 to 1 headers tested. I wouldn't even consider shorties at level of your build, and would think you'll be down 25-30hp with TriYs versus proper headers. A 520ci FE can't be a cheap build, hate to see compromise at this point.

Side note, I run TriYs on my car so not bagging on them, just trying to match application.

I'd ask around to see what headers guys are running for your chassis.

jayb · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2018, 08:34:43 AM »

The FPAs are going to be down 25-30 HP at peak compared to a larger tube header, on a 700 HP engine. So, will they support 700 HP? Yes, but better headers would give you more. One thing about the smaller primary tubes though is that they will help you in low and midrange torque compared to a larger tube header; see the following post for more information on that:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=4760.msg51869#msg51869

mbrunson427 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2018, 08:45:26 AM »

What kind of car are you putting it into? Have the tri-y's on the '67 Mustang and I'm not real happy with them. Seems like I'm always more worried about fitment than performance however.

N2950H · « **Reply #4 on:** May 17, 2018, 09:18:44 AM »

Thanks for the responses, guys. This motor is going into a 63 Galaxie boxtop survivor that his 77k original miles and is in fantastic original condition, so that's the reason for not wanting to cut or reshape the inner fender wells.

While the car's purpose is 95% cruising, I don't really want to give up that much HP on the top end with shorties. It's going to be hard enough as it is to get traction down low so increasing the low to mid range torque with the smaller primaries isn't super critical. Chilly is right about the cost of the build, so losing some of that power I'm paying to make would be a shame.

If anyone here is running longtubes in a 63/64 Galaxie, I would love to hear what you're running and if you had any fitment issues. In the end, if a compromise needs to be made, it's likely going to be in the form of a low hanging collector that otherwise fits well...just don't know yet what header fits that bill.

garyv · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:08:15 AM »

I think your best bet is to contact REF Unlimited and talk to Greg and have him make you a custom
set of headers. They will definitely support 700HP.
He is on facebook if you are a member there.
Great guy to work with.

garyv

thatdarncat · « **Reply #6 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:27:45 AM »

Quote from: garyv on May 17, 2018, 10:08:15 AM

I think your best bet is to contact REF Unlimited and talk to Greg and have him make you a custom
set of headers. They will definitely support 700HP.
He is on facebook if you are a member there.
Great guy to work with.

garyv

If I remember correctly ( and I don't always ), I think REF Unlimited made the headers for Bobby Spears original '64 Lightweight Galaxie. REF would be my first choice, if they make headers for Galaxies. It would certainly be worth a phone call.

N2950H · « **Reply #7 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:33:31 AM »

Appreciate the recommendation, guys. I should have mentioned that I called and talked with someone at REF for a bit. The first issue I have with REF is that they physically need my car to fit-up a set of custom headers, and they're in AZ while I am in WA. The second issue I had was the price. I'm not trying to skimp on the cost of headers after dropping serious money on a motor, but he quoted me around twice what the FPA headers would cost. It just seemed out of line for a street car, and the guy did mention that 95% of what he does is for race cars.

mbrunson427 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 17, 2018, 10:39:31 AM »

I've been kicking around the idea of taking mine down there and letting it be the pattern piece for REF...... it wont be soon though, I don't imagine I'll have everything in place until spring next year. I'm sure you want something sooner than that.

Joe-JDC · « **Reply #9 on:** May 17, 2018, 11:11:22 AM »

Don't sell the FPA's short. I recently took part in a header comparison test on the 2016 EMC winning Y Block ford, and in the testing, we used my FPA headers for my 1955 Thunderbird. They have 1 5/8-1 3/4 stepped long tube headers into a 3" collector. That little 375 Y made 597 hp and 565 lbft torque. It actually made more than all the headers tested, even those on the EMC engine. Will be on my personal 375 Y. Joe-JDC

N2950H · « **Reply #10 on:** May 17, 2018, 11:15:54 AM »

Those are some great numbers, for sure. I just have to wonder how well they translate when you've got 520 cubes.

Joe-JDC · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2018, 12:07:35 PM »

JBA tri-ys, FPAs, Hooker Super Comp Street, all use a 1 3/4" primary in the Mustang, Fairlane chassis. At 520 cubic inches, I personally would start with 2.000"into 2.125" stepped and have a 2.750" merge collector into a 3.000" flange and 3.000" exhausts to the mufflers. Everyone I know says that the 1 7/8" pipes do not make power. JMO, but there are so many surprises when you start testing exhaust systems and headers on a dyno, you always come away with more questions than answers. Joe-JDC

Jb427 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2018, 01:31:55 PM »

My FPA headers are some of the best money i have spent so far. I had hooker super comp headers on my fairlane when i bought it.They have to be the worst header if you thinking of lowering your car even a little bit one tube runs under the lower suspension arm. ill be happy to lose 30 or even 50hp to have some of the best ground clearance if your not going to race your car every week at a track then it is a minor loss compared to the gains. The owner of FPA was great to deal with he didn't want to ship out of the USA but he worked with me and I am very happy he did.

482supersnake · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2018, 02:48:32 PM »

It won't be as inexpensive as a set of FPA headers but if you are in Washington go to Stan's headers in Auburn WA and have a set of custom headers made. They are the ones who make the headers for FPA.

N2950H · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2018, 03:11:12 PM »

I have no doubts about the FPA quality, just think they're a bit undersized for my application.

482supersnake - thank you very much for the recommendation for Stan's out of Auburn. I had no idea they were even there, and it's right down the street from my place. Definitely worth stopping by at the very least.

482supersnake · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2018, 03:24:19 PM »

No problem. As a second option I do have an old set of 2" tube Galaxy headers that have solid tubes. I stared to modify them for a project but switched to stainless. I would make you a good deal on them if you wanted to try your hand at fabricating some yourself, or there are some forum members up north who have experience fabricating headers. (TomP) I live in the Browns point area.

chilly460 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2018, 03:49:00 PM »

Crites makes 2" headers as well

677litre · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2018, 05:51:08 PM »

I like my FPA tri-ys in my 67 Cougar and was going to say what others said, talk to Stan or FPA and get them to make a set with larger tubes.

Machspeed · « **Reply #18 on:** May 18, 2018, 02:48:33 AM »

What about Mad Dog headers? They list bare steel header with 2" into 3-1/2" for early 60's Galaxies at $450. It's a long tube header so ground clearance could an issue and they do not have a picture on their site but it could be worth a call to get some more details. Part# 9201

http://maddogheaders.net/products/ford

westcoastgalaxie · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2018, 09:43:58 AM »

I have fpa tri-y's on my lowered 62 galaxie and have not scrapped them going over speed bumps and I am sitting pretty low. It's currently up on stands otherwise I'd measure for you, but I'll put it this way its low enough that I cannot slide a normal jack under the front. I need one of those low clearance jacks. I will say as well that my springs are like 20-30% stiffer than stock. I also go slow over speed bumps. Additionally the pipes coming off the collectors are the lowest point not the headers so the pipes would be first to suffer. no biggie. I could take pics if you want.

Drew Pojedinec · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2018, 10:30:21 AM »

Obviously I've got no dyno experience to back it up.... but my 63.5 Galaxie has FPA headers that appear large enough to support more power than I'm making.

Rory428 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 19, 2018, 12:30:15 PM »

I seem to recall in Jays intake comparo book that the 1 3/4" Dynomax truck headers made more power than many of the larger headers he tested.

westcoastgalaxie · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2018, 08:09:24 PM »

Those truck headers made power due to the exit length from the port not their primary size. Trucks have more room under the hood and the headers can make a straight exit out the port for longer than in any other application. Just like look at Barry’s dyno headers.

N2950H · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2018, 02:33:34 PM »

Talked to the guy at Stan's in Auburn and the quote I got is even higher than REF, so that's out. For the money I'd opt for the REF pieces but I just can't get my car down to AZ anytime soon.

At this point I'm leaning toward the OEM FoMoCo 427 cast iron manifolds since my build will not look very exotic and I shouldn't have any fit or clearance issues with those. I have found a couple pairs for sale ranging from $2000-2600, each had a busted ear. I don't see many for sale at the moment...for those of you guys that are running these, what is considered a fair price for these guys in good shape?

jayb · « **Reply #24 on:** May 21, 2018, 04:14:29 PM »

Ever considered building your own headers? If you can weld (gas, MIG, or TIG) you can do it yourself. Buy the collectors and the mandrel bent tubing, then cut and fit the tubing with a bandsaw or hacksaw to make the header tubes. Weld them all up, and get them ceramic coated. It's actually kind of fun to do, and you'll have a great sense of accomplishment when finished. Lots of people are scared to try this, but its not that hard...

thatdarncat · « **Reply #25 on:** May 21, 2018, 06:49:20 PM »

Another option for doing your own custom headers - there is a company here in Minnesota, Stainless Headers, that has a system where they send you some special adjustable elbows, and you add pvc pipe to mock up what you need for headers on your car. Then you send in the complete mock up prototype and they weld up a set of custom stainless headers from that. I don't personally know anyone who has done it, maybe someone here has experience? Here's a link to their website with pictures, scroll down the page a bit to see how it works.

http://stainlessheaders.eclipticcms.com/customheaders#nav-mobilelist

Jim Comet · « **Reply #26 on:** May 21, 2018, 09:43:55 PM »

I just built mine using flanges from Blair, 1 7/8 and 2 inch universal kits from Heartthrob, collectors off Ebay and had a local business finish tig weld them after I had tacked them the way I wanted. I have about 1000 bucks into them without any heat coatings. I might try Eastwoods inside coating and VHT flameproof outside with some header wrap to keep heat away from my starter and steering Ujoint. Kind of neat to build your own but a hoist would have made it much easier.Jim

cjshaker · « **Reply #27 on:** May 21, 2018, 10:22:25 PM »

Nice work, Jim. Those look good.
I've found that a flat sander belt, or disc sander really comes in handy for adjusting angles slightly on the tubing. Gaps need to be really good when you're tig welding, and even mig welding when using stainless.

N2950H · « **Reply #28 on:** May 22, 2018, 06:53:22 AM »

I really had no idea there were some build-your-own-header kits out there, so I appreciate the info. I imagine it's going to be several months before my motor is complete so I have some time to sort this out.

And Jim, those look fantastic. That's got to be quite satisfying.

KMcCullah · « **Reply #29 on:** May 22, 2018, 09:39:03 AM »

Quote from: Jim Comet on May 21, 2018, 09:43:55 PM

I just built mine using flanges from Blair, 1 7/8 and 2 inch universal kits from Heartthrob, collectors off Ebay and had a local business finish tig weld them after I had tacked them the way I wanted. I have about 1000 bucks into them without any heat coatings. I might try Eastwoods inside coating and VHT flameproof outside with some header wrap to keep heat away from my starter and steering Ujoint. Kind of neat to build your own but a hoist would have made it much easier.Jim

Yes sir! Nice work Jim. Blair's flanges are damn nice to work with too.

KMcCullah · « **Reply #30 on:** May 22, 2018, 10:04:33 AM »

Quote from: N2950H on May 21, 2018, 02:33:34 PM

At this point I'm leaning toward the OEM FoMoCo 427 cast iron manifolds since my build will not look very exotic and I shouldn't have any fit or clearance issues with those. I have found a couple pairs for sale ranging from $2000-2600, each had a busted ear. I don't see many for sale at the moment...for those of you guys that are running these, what is considered a fair price for these guys in good shape?

Here's a long iron pair I spotted the other day. Pretty spendy but hey, no fuss, no muss. Personally I wouldn't run them unless I was in a numbers matching scenario.

https://www.racingjunk.com/Headers-Header-Kits/183010669/Ford-FE-427-long-tube-factory-cast-headers.html?category_id=&search=fe+ford&quickSearch=1&np_offset=2&from=search

EricDS · « **Reply #31 on:** May 22, 2018, 03:38:12 PM »

These just sold on eBay a few weeks ago. Cast iron long tubes

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-FE-Headers-427-390-/263626722772?hash=item3d61608dd4%3Ag%3AWwIAAOSw1iNa3KJv&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=ij8SUI0NP%252FjCpshH4VtqQhuveAQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

TomP · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2018, 12:24:57 PM »

I would go 2" or larger, the passenger side is harder to make than the drivers side, need to consider being able to get the header in and out of the car along with fit. I make the ones on my 61 wagon tri-Y with 1 7/8" from the ports into two 2 1/4" tubes into 3" collectors. The #3 and 4 tubes sweep up from the port to get the length then down with nothing hanging below the frame.

TimeWarpF100 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 26, 2018, 07:39:40 PM »

Quote from: N2950H on May 17, 2018, 08:07:03 AM

Now that I've settled on an engine combo, I'm starting to think about what headers would be best for my application. I have the builder working on a 427/520 that will likely be putting out somewhere between 650 and 700hp and I'll be running a Dynamic C6. This car will be almost entirely a weekend cruiser and it is lowered a little bit.

I have been talking with Stan and FPA about his Tri-Y headers but putting shorties on that motor goes against everything I know (which admittedly is very little in the FE world). I wanted to go with a good set of longtubes but am worried about banging the collector on speed bumps, having to cut the inner fender well, etc.

So my question...will the FPA headers support this power level, or will I be leaving a lot on the table with shorties? If I had $2k-ish in the budget I'd go OEM cast iron, but I'm thinking more in the $1k range before coating.

I am with others who say build your own. I like to
Buy mandrel bend kit from Stahl headers. Summit now carries them
I built these step headers with only about 3 welds per pipe INC step.
It was under 500.00 if I recall correctly. I did the rest of system
Out of 304 stainless. Short vid prior to ceramic coat on headers.

https://youtu.be/npZDMwMClTc

Cruisin · « **Reply #34 on:** May 26, 2018, 08:02:35 PM »

I have recently bought a set of Stan's FPA headers for the stroked 390/450-500hp I am building.
A top bloke to deal with and a straight hedzup guy.

Once I have it all assembled in the '58 I'll review ground clearance as well.
The alloy top end will raise the car I expect, by an inch or so.

Currently giving consideration to EFI and best route there as well...
My project will only be for street cruising and the odd strip duty..

Keen to see on where you go with yours as mine is pretty original as well.
Cheers,
Cruisin

Jim Comet · « **Reply #35 on:** June 29, 2018, 06:37:08 PM »

So I got my headers built and painted inside and out with ceramic paint. I need them to be slip fit because of my steering shaft on the drivers side. With that said what would you put on the slip joint to keep if from seizing into the collector. antiseize? ultra permatex? or dry?

News:

Author Topic: Will FPA Tri-Y headers support 700hp? (Read 9649 times)

482supersnake

482supersnake

TomP