Author Topic: FE rod options?  (Read 18820 times)

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HvyFt4spd

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FE rod options?
« on: May 05, 2018, 11:01:25 AM »
  Anything out there US made in long or short standard FE rods? Say in the $800-$1200 range.... This is mostly a preference, a $450 set of Scat H-beams would do the job but if I could get something between the $2500 billets and the China parts I'd be glad to toss the money at it .

blykins

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 12:19:40 PM »
I have Molnar rods in stock at 6.490” and FE rod journal diameter.  They are US made, lighter than Scats and come with some very stout fasteners.  Excellent quality pieces. I’ll defer you to their website for pricing.

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Rory428

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 12:55:28 PM »
I don`t know if Crower offers them anymore, but my 427 block with 428 crank has a set of Crower I Beam rods that have all the factory dimensions.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

winr1

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 01:30:39 PM »
Molnar part #  FH6488ANPB8-A



Ricky.

HvyFt4spd

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 01:33:42 PM »
   From the wording on the website and previous posts about Molnar my understanding is that these are "finished in the USA" offshore parts. I've only seen a few of their offerings but those parts also looked like Scat pieces that were further detailed. I filed out a contact slip with Oliver just to see what they say but haven't found too much thumbing through various company listings. I'll make some calls Monday but wanted to see what might be known here.

 Thanks, Dan

blykins

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 01:43:41 PM »
I thought they were made in the USA, but I could be wrong. 

These are about 65g lighter than a Scat, with much better fasteners. 





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scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2018, 02:26:57 PM »
   From the wording on the website and previous posts about Molnar my understanding is that these are "finished in the USA" offshore parts. I've only seen a few of their offerings but those parts also looked like Scat pieces that were further detailed. I filed out a contact slip with Oliver just to see what they say but haven't found too much thumbing through various company listings. I'll make some calls Monday but wanted to see what might be known here.

 Thanks, Dan
Tom Molnar used to be an engineer at Oliver, then started K1, now does his own thing with Molnar Technologies. The rods are import forgings but to his spec...nothing like a Scat. His bolts are form ARP but also to his spec. Tom is a very sharp guy and puts out a real nice product. Detail/finish work on his rods is very nice. He's also very easy to talk to and will answer any questions you have. Give him a call if you want to know about his rods.

HvyFt4spd

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2018, 06:46:30 PM »
Scott, I've seen the rods and cranks in person and those I've had my hands on appear to start from the same core forging. I maybe wrong about that vs the most current offerings and I'm not knocking the company either way. Still I don't see any use of thier product lines for my interests at this time. For me at that point of cost I'm up for spending more for an actual US made item and supporting companies that consider that important. If I'm screwing a budget 302 together I'm probably going Scat unless quality drops even further. Should that occur or there be no other option is the only way I see myself ever sending Molnar money for China parts that expensive.

 I can also tell you I turned down a set of Molnar rods at FERR on a generous discount for a cash sale. Now I considered it knowing they are nice pieces but I just couldn't do it, hence this thread....


Barry_R

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2018, 07:06:01 PM »
Only domestic source I am aware of is Crower

blykins

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2018, 07:26:16 PM »
The forgings are completely different, the beam is very narrow on the Molnar.

Also, your reply seemed to imply that the Scat pieces were “budget” and that they were low quality.  That’s not at all the case.  I’ve seen more crankshaft journal dimension variation on some Callies cranks than I’ve seen on some Scat cranks.

It’s completely your prerogative to choose US made stuff over US finished stuff and that’s perfectly fine, but at the HP level of most FE’ers, the Scat pieces are really pretty nice.

As Barry said, Crower is the only other option for an FE dimension rod.
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blykins

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Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
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FB

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2018, 08:35:32 PM »
I don`t know if Crower offers them anymore, but my 427 block with 428 crank has a set of Crower I Beam rods that have all the factory dimensions.

yep can still get them, a bit pricey but are masterpieces.......
Fred

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2018, 09:56:54 PM »
Scott, I've seen the rods and cranks in person and those I've had my hands on appear to start from the same core forging. I maybe wrong about that vs the most current offerings and I'm not knocking the company either way. Still I don't see any use of thier product lines for my interests at this time. For me at that point of cost I'm up for spending more for an actual US made item and supporting companies that consider that important. If I'm screwing a budget 302 together I'm probably going Scat unless quality drops even further. Should that occur or there be no other option is the only way I see myself ever sending Molnar money for China parts that expensive.

 I can also tell you I turned down a set of Molnar rods at FERR on a generous discount for a cash sale. Now I considered it knowing they are nice pieces but I just couldn't do it, hence this thread....
Tom's beam design, as Brent said, is completely different than any other H beam. Again, his design, not the cookie cutter H beam like Scat, Eagle, Manley, Engine Pro, Cat, etc...all basically the same. Personally, I'm not so concerned about Chinese vs US. This is a little political, but my problem with Chinese products in America was the fact that they diluted the quality of the market, regardless of the cost, and there are companies that give no consideration to what cheap knockoffs do to the industry (like ProComp, now Speedmaster) but when a product is a quality product, frankly, I don't care where i comes from. Japan, China, Germany, Taiwan, Argentina, TimBuckTwo... makes no difference to me and Tom's parts are extremely high quality so I really don't care where they're made. JMO.
To add: I won't use a Scat rod out of the box, nor any other generic import rod. Loosen the bolts and tighten them again to torque, or better yet stretch, and see how round they are. I guarantee you they'll go out of round between half a thou to a full thou and they tighten up at the parting line. The ends are not machined, they're belt sanded and no where near flat or straight. Not the case with one of Tom's rods but those are the little details that not many know about or bother to check.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 10:02:15 PM by scott foxwell »

HvyFt4spd

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2018, 01:21:09 AM »
  Brent,
 
  To clarify Scat quality varies and seems to have much more issues than in the past so in my eyes it very much is the case. For a time I worked at a shop that was a Scat dealer (RAM in Clinton Ohio) and another friend is the head machinist at the local VW shop(LA products in Akron) which is also a Scat dealer so I still see issues here and there. Most of the time he points them out as I rib him for using Empi knock off parts he says he has found to have less (obvious) issues. Nothing is perfect but for my money I have long learned to buy the best I can afford at the time. Generally Scat is my go to and I won't even consider anything below them but I have gotten bad parts.  Summit is also right up the road and I'm probably there once a week at least where it's not uncommon at all to find a blem crank or set of rods on the discount table.

My billet 3.4 SBF Scat crank came in the old shop with an undrilled/unfinished flange and the wrong size key way in the wrong spot. More recently my purchase of a forged 4.25 FE Scat crank I was assured was the best off the shelf crank available resulted in a flaking slag covered piece neither Scat nor the vendor who couldn't be reached saw fit to address which had it to be shotpeened and rebalanced. The 4.25 cast crank another FE guy here got in his "kit" is riddled with porosity. In that I'm referring to every unmachined area has 3/16" air pockets that hopefully are limited to just the surface. You certainly don't see display pieces that look like that and in my case it is more than enough to look to other suppliers when possible. So yes any part can be flawed at any cost/level but with this in mind I'm not interested in buying another Scat FE crank or rods no matter how much power they can handle etc. I'm looking for nicer parts for this.

  Scott,
  I asked a simple question about availability of a nice US made set of rods. I'm not interested in dragging this into global economy politics. No matter how nice Molnar rods are in your opinion I don't want to spend my money on them. I have an old American car with an old American engine if for no other reason I consider it a touch cooler not to use China stuff to build it with.

 



.

Nightmist66

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2018, 02:33:11 AM »
How about Carrillo? Sposedta be full US made.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carrillo-Connecting-Rods-Ford-390-427-428-FE-2-200-Crank-990-Pin-6-488-WMC/292334965186?hash=item44108591c2:g:CksAAOSwKIpWBTTx&vxp=mtr

Oliver are US made also. Maybe they could do a custom set?

Hate to say it, but if you want a US rod, you are gonna pay. A. LOT.
Jared



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blykins

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2018, 05:43:13 AM »
How about Carrillo? Sposedta be full US made.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carrillo-Connecting-Rods-Ford-390-427-428-FE-2-200-Crank-990-Pin-6-488-WMC/292334965186?hash=item44108591c2:g:CksAAOSwKIpWBTTx&vxp=mtr

Oliver are US made also. Maybe they could do a custom set?

Hate to say it, but if you want a US rod, you are gonna pay. A. LOT.

Those have BBC rod journals. :)
Brent Lykins
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blykins

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2018, 06:07:07 AM »
  Brent,
 
  To clarify Scat quality varies and seems to have much more issues than in the past so in my eyes it very much is the case. For a time I worked at a shop that was a Scat dealer (RAM in Clinton Ohio) and another friend is the head machinist at the local VW shop(LA products in Akron) which is also a Scat dealer so I still see issues here and there. Most of the time he points them out as I rib him for using Empi knock off parts he says he has found to have less (obvious) issues. Nothing is perfect but for my money I have long learned to buy the best I can afford at the time. Generally Scat is my go to and I won't even consider anything below them but I have gotten bad parts.  Summit is also right up the road and I'm probably there once a week at least where it's not uncommon at all to find a blem crank or set of rods on the discount table.

My billet 3.4 SBF Scat crank came in the old shop with an undrilled/unfinished flange and the wrong size key way in the wrong spot. More recently my purchase of a forged 4.25 FE Scat crank I was assured was the best off the shelf crank available resulted in a flaking slag covered piece neither Scat nor the vendor who couldn't be reached saw fit to address which had it to be shotpeened and rebalanced. The 4.25 cast crank another FE guy here got in his "kit" is riddled with porosity. In that I'm referring to every unmachined area has 3/16" air pockets that hopefully are limited to just the surface. You certainly don't see display pieces that look like that and in my case it is more than enough to look to other suppliers when possible. So yes any part can be flawed at any cost/level but with this in mind I'm not interested in buying another Scat FE crank or rods no matter how much power they can handle etc. I'm looking for nicer parts for this.

  Scott,
  I asked a simple question about availability of a nice US made set of rods. I'm not interested in dragging this into global economy politics. No matter how nice Molnar rods are in your opinion I don't want to spend my money on them. I have an old American car with an old American engine if for no other reason I consider it a touch cooler not to use China stuff to build it with.

 



.

I guess my experiences have been quite the opposite.   Eagles are absolutely a no-go for me.  Won't use their stuff.  RPM's parts need some machine work out of the box to be usable, but all-in-all, they are good parts that I have seen zero failures with.   I've had issues with practically every manufacturer out there, and as a mechanical engineer who specialized in mechanical design and manufacturing, I understand that there's a bell curve with every part and sometimes we get a part that's on the extreme end.  As that sample size goes up, the chances of a ringer will go up. 

With all of that being said, I don't have thousands of engines under my belt like a high-quantity "rebuilder", but I've built a LOT of engines and have sold a tremendous amount of parts over the years.  I have chosen Scat to be my "go-to" for my street and street/strip engines and to this day, I can think of exactly 2 items that were out of the scope of "this needs a little correction".  I'm not talking about having to dust the inside of a bearing housing or a pin bore, because if we had to eliminate manufacturers according to those standards, we would be sitting here without any parts to work with.  IMO, that's part of custom engine building.  Those 2 items consisted of:  1.  one single rod that when I removed the cap, it wouldn't go back on and I don't see how the guy putting it together even got it on.  2.  A 4.250" SBF 4340 crank rod journal that had about .0006" of taper in it.   That crank was in a late batch of 3 cranks that I received two weeks ago, so I will keep my eye on them. Can't say that I have seen even a single case of porosity on their cast cranks or any flaking. 

I am saying all of this not to be argumentative, but just to state my own retort, as I didn't want anyone thinking that Scat has stooped to the quality level of some of the others. 

Getting back to your original question, it looks like Crower is the only option for you, unless you wanted to have one of the other manufacturers make a custom rod, and then you're gonna be over the cost of the Crower. 

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 06:09:00 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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HvyFt4spd

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2018, 08:31:11 AM »
 Hey Brent,

  It's not my intention to argue, insult any company or scare off potential customers for anyone but blems happen and people should be aware rotten apples are out there. Even top end companies and million dollar cnc gubment projects have an "oh darn" moment. The question is if it gets out the door that way and if so how the problem is handled.

  In regards to the rods all this comes down to is that I have a preference I'm willing to pay for. I doubt I'm going to dig up much but I'm glad to post the outcome.

Thanks for the posts guys, Dan

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 09:30:04 AM »


  Scott,
  I asked a simple question about availability of a nice US made set of rods. I'm not interested in dragging this into global economy politics. No matter how nice Molnar rods are in your opinion I don't want to spend my money on them. I have an old American car with an old American engine if for no other reason I consider it a touch cooler not to use China stuff to build it with.

 



.
LOL...well that's certainly your prerogative. Good luck with that. I've learned to pick my battles. "How nice" Molnar rods are is not an opinion, it's a fact, and that's all I'm trying to provide. Just good information.
Carry on.

andyf

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 11:22:45 AM »
I guess I'm just the opposite. I'll use Molnar stuff but not Crower. Crower makes great stuff but I've found that they are just too difficult to work with. Tom on the other hand is a pretty good guy to work with and he sells nice parts. I've also had great luck working with the guys at SCAT. They've done custom cranks for me that Crower turned up their nose on. Oliver is also pretty good to work with and they can build anything you need.

At my point in life I don't really care which country the part is made in since that is a pointless discussion. Where did the iron ore come from? Who did the CAD work? Which country was the inspection equipment made in? Country of origin is a meaningless concept if you dig into a few levels. Everything comes from everywhere.

I'm a lot more interested in who I'm dealing with and will they support their product after the sale. Will they work with you to get you what you need? I don't really care where the vendor sources the raw material, that is their business. Besides, how much of your original FE engine came from USA? Detroit has been sourcing parts from around the world for a long time.

cjshaker

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 12:28:16 PM »
Besides, how much of your original FE engine came from USA? Detroit has been sourcing parts from around the world for a long time.

Not trying to nit-pick, but almost 100% sure that at the time FE's were being made, especially through the '60s, every single part was U.S. made, by U.S. materials, in U.S. foundries.
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blykins

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 01:12:32 PM »
Hey Brent,

  It's not my intention to argue, insult any company or scare off potential customers for anyone but blems happen and people should be aware rotten apples are out there. Even top end companies and million dollar cnc gubment projects have an "oh darn" moment. The question is if it gets out the door that way and if so how the problem is handled.

  In regards to the rods all this comes down to is that I have a preference I'm willing to pay for. I doubt I'm going to dig up much but I'm glad to post the outcome.

Thanks for the posts guys, Dan

Yes sir, let us know what you come up with.
Brent Lykins
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Tommy-T

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 01:29:48 PM »
"Not trying to nit-pick, but almost 100% sure that at the time FE's were being made, especially through the '60s, every single part was U.S. made, by U.S. materials, in U.S. foundries."

The above is simply a non-true statement.

North America simply does not have any bauxite reserves worth mining and never has. It is interesting that aluminum is the most prevalent metal in the earth's crust at 8.3%, but not much on our continent.  Anything aluminum, say front covers, thermostat housings, intake manifolds, were made from materials sourced from abroad. Maybe nit-picking, but even the 'ol FE has been "global" all along.

Sorry to go so off topic...but wrong is wrong.

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 03:18:33 PM »
So if the aluminum ore used in a factory PI intake was sourced from a foreign country, then FE cars were "global"?  And based on that there's no point in trying to buy American made today?  That is some serious rationalization.  LOL!

cjshaker

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 06:52:41 PM »
"Not trying to nit-pick, but almost 100% sure that at the time FE's were being made, especially through the '60s, every single part was U.S. made, by U.S. materials, in U.S. foundries."

The above is simply a non-true statement.

North America simply does not have any bauxite reserves worth mining and never has. It is interesting that aluminum is the most prevalent metal in the earth's crust at 8.3%, but not much on our continent.  Anything aluminum, say front covers, thermostat housings, intake manifolds, were made from materials sourced from abroad. Maybe nit-picking, but even the 'ol FE has been "global" all along.

Sorry to go so off topic...but wrong is wrong.

Hey Tommy, according to  online sources the U.S. was providing a little less than 10% of the WORLDS supply of bauxite in the mid/late '50s. That fell over the years, and especially in the '80s. So we're still talking about millions of tons of bauxite being mined in the U.S. in the '60s. So, got any proof that those parts were made from ore from outside the U.S. before you say I'm wrong?
Doug Smith


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scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 08:42:23 PM »
"Not trying to nit-pick, but almost 100% sure that at the time FE's were being made, especially through the '60s, every single part was U.S. made, by U.S. materials, in U.S. foundries."

The above is simply a non-true statement.

North America simply does not have any bauxite reserves worth mining and never has. It is interesting that aluminum is the most prevalent metal in the earth's crust at 8.3%, but not much on our continent.  Anything aluminum, say front covers, thermostat housings, intake manifolds, were made from materials sourced from abroad. Maybe nit-picking, but even the 'ol FE has been "global" all along.

Sorry to go so off topic...but wrong is wrong.

Hey Tommy, according to  online sources the U.S. was providing a little less than 10% of the WORLDS supply of bauxite in the mid/late '50s. That fell over the years, and especially in the '80s. So we're still talking about millions of tons of bauxite being mined in the U.S. in the '60s. So, got any proof that those parts were made from ore from outside the U.S. before you say I'm wrong?
Very little of that bauxite was used for aluminum.

cjshaker

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 10:57:39 AM »
Very little of that bauxite was used for aluminum.

Read the bottom of page 5..."The principal use of Arkansas bauxite was in the manufacture of metallic aluminum."
http://www.geology.ar.gov/pdf/pamphlets/Bauxite.pdf
Then look at page 6 for the over 38,000,000 long tons of bauxite produced during the production of the FE, in Arkansas alone.
Apparently you're not the expert you think you are, in every subject known to man.
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Barry_R

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 11:08:04 AM »
Very little of that bauxite was used for aluminum.
[/quote]

What else do you use bauxite for?

Dumpling

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 12:12:09 PM »
A,te you all taking testosterone pills?

Barry_R

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 02:06:10 PM »
A,te you all taking testosterone pills?

Sometimes we just like to bicker....

mmason

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2018, 02:17:02 PM »
"However, since 1981, none of the bauxite mined in the US was used to make metallic aluminium. US bauxite is instead used for abrasives, high-temperature refractory materials, and as a high-strength proppant for hydraulic fracturing of oil and gas wells."

From Wikipedia
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chris401

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2018, 03:30:44 PM »
So....
Crowler is the last US rod manufacturer? Blair had some made up, what are there origins?

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 03:59:31 PM »
Very little of that bauxite was used for aluminum.

Apparently you're not the expert you think you are, in every subject known to man.
Says the pot to the kettle.
You just can't resist the chance for a snyde comment or insult, can you, God love ya... ::)
For you and Barry, both:
(Thanks mmason for posting this)
Quote
However, since 1981, none of the bauxite mined in the US was used to make metallic aluminium. US bauxite is instead used for abrasives, high-temperature refractory materials, and as a high-strength proppant for hydraulic fracturing of oil and gas wells.
I think it's safe to say that by the late 60's very little was used for aluminum, if by the early 80's NONE was used.
I never even heard of bauxite till this thread, but I did do a little OBJECTIVE reading of more than one source of information.
FYI, it takes four tons of Bauxite to make one ton of aluminum, so at a rate of 25%, the US was responsible for very little of the aluminum producing bauxite in the world.
According to your source,:
Quote
Until 1942 the only company mining bauxite
in Arkansas primarily for use in the manufacture of aluminum
was a subsidiary of
the aluminum Company of America [renamed the ALCOA Mining Company in
1945]. Other companies, including the American Cyanamid & Chemical Corp.,
the Norton Company, General Abrasive Company, Dulin Bauxite Company, and
Dixie Bauxite Company were mining bauxite for uses other than aluminum metal.
and goes on to say:
 
Quote
by the end of 1945 only ALCOA, Reynolds, and the group of
nonmetal producers active prior to 1942 remained as producers.
So out of that 38m tons you came up with, do you think there was enough bauxite for Alcoa and Reynolds to produce enough aluminum for ALL of manufacturing in the US at that time? Lets say they mined 25% of that 38m tons. That is 9.5m tons. 25% of that would be 2.37m tons of aluminum, over a period of how ever many years you calculated, for ALL of aluminum manufacturing needs in the US.
Does that sound reasonable to you?
What's interesting is, although we were at the bottom of the list when it came to Bauxite mining, we were at the top of the list for alumina and primary aluminum production. Had to be getting that Bauxite from somewhere!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 04:20:39 PM by scott foxwell »

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 04:10:15 PM »
This is ridiculous.  So IF the aluminum used in the factory made FE-powered cars was made from foreign bauxite, then a 1968 Mustang becomes a "global car" like a 2018???  You guys are arguing about nothing.   

JMO,

paulie

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2018, 04:19:08 PM »
This is ridiculous.  So IF the aluminum used in the factory made FE-powered cars was made from foreign bauxite, then a 1968 Mustang becomes a "global car" like a 2018???  You guys are arguing about nothing.   

JMO,

paulie
So ignore it.

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2018, 04:25:19 PM »
This is ridiculous.  So IF the aluminum used in the factory made FE-powered cars was made from foreign bauxite, then a 1968 Mustang becomes a "global car" like a 2018???  You guys are arguing about nothing.   

JMO,

paulie
So ignore it.

No, I will state my opinion.  You can ignore mine if you want to.  That's up to you.

paulie

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2018, 04:29:28 PM »
Everybody here knows that American car manufacturing in the 1960's was very different than it is now.  The whole car, or almost the whole car, and all it's parts were manufactured here.  It is very different today.  Where the bauxite that Ford sourced it's aluminum for thermostats was from doesn't change that at all.  Tommy's first statement doesn't really mean anything significant.  I don't mind though.  It's interesting to talk about.  Silly, but interesting.

JMO,

paulie

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2018, 05:20:55 PM »
Interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMlPonSrqVo
FE manufacturing
You decide where they are built out of what but
interesting



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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2018, 05:56:29 PM »
That's neat!  Amazing.  Thanks.

paulie

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2018, 06:35:36 PM »
Great video! Thanks Heo!

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2018, 07:26:37 PM »
This thread has gone way astray - - but its been really educational.

The Arkansas bauxite mines look to have been the victims of multiple issues coming together at once.  Its a material that is strip mined - we all know how the environmental folks love that process.  The fact that it is really common in low cost countries, combined with the labor and environmental pressure, a weak economy in the early 80s, and the rise of recycling (aluminum is among the most recycled materials around) made the mines non-competitive.  I think we all need to schedule a group field trip to the bauxite museum in - of course - Bauxite, Arkansas....for research.  They have to have a bar there....

The Rouge video is awesome.  Check out the gang hone doing four cylinders at once.  Or the lifter bore machine that hits all of them in a group.  The huge cutter doing the front face is cool.  Using a hand compressor to squeeze the rings is kinda surprising, as was the idea that the short block was assembled standing on end.  They point out the pressure check on the deck oil feed - that sunnuvabitch has apparently been a problem child from day one.  The hot start is neat and answers a couple questions that pop up from time to time - notice the cut away valve covers so they could do a visible oiling check.

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2018, 07:31:46 PM »
They do mention domestic and foreign sourced ores being used, in the video.  Still, it's amazing how the American car manufacturers produced almost every single part on the car from raw materials.   

JMO,

paulie

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2018, 07:34:04 PM »

So out of that 38m tons you came up with, do you think there was enough bauxite for Alcoa and Reynolds to produce enough aluminum for ALL of manufacturing in the US at that time? Lets say they mined 25% of that 38m tons. That is 9.5m tons. 25% of that would be 2.37m tons of aluminum, over a period of how ever many years you calculated, for ALL of aluminum manufacturing needs in the US.
Does that sound reasonable to you?


I guess you missed the part about that being Arkansas production only? And I didn't come up with that 38 million tons, it's a fact stated by knowledgeable professionals who know the actual figures. I'll even overlook the fact that ALCOA, being a major mining company, would probably have dealt with the biggest companies in the U.S. to sell their product. I get the fact that you can never admit that there's even a possibility you might be wrong about something. I'm pretty sure we all get that.

My apologies to the OP and Jay for turning this thread into a s#*tshow. I'm done with it.
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cjshaker

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2018, 07:42:38 PM »
Still, it's amazing how the American car manufacturers produced almost every single part on the car from raw materials.   

JMO,

paulie

That was Fords entire goal for decades, until the mid '70s when the gas crunch hit the American car companies HARD. From the mid '70s on, everything changed, to the point that very few raw materials used today come from the U.S.  I have several friends that live in Arkansas, one being an older gentleman who was affected by the lost jobs in the mining industry in the '70s, so I have a little more than a passing knowledge of the subject, not that that makes me an expert on the subject.
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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2018, 07:46:05 PM »
So....
Crowler is the last US rod manufacturer? Blair had some made up, what are there origins?


No. I mentioned Carrillo and Oliver. Both are 100% Made in USA. I haven't checked into the aluminum rod companies, but there may be someone else that is completely US also.
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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2018, 07:53:35 PM »
This thread has gone way astray - - but its been really educational.

  I think we all need to schedule a group field trip to the bauxite museum in - of course - Bauxite, Arkansas....for research.  They have to have a bar there....

I'm in for the field trip and social event lol.  ;D
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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2018, 07:55:27 PM »
I have Competition Products rods.  They told me they were made by Oliver.  They are not factory FE dimensions, though.  They have SBC large journal big end and SBC pin size. 

paulie

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2018, 07:57:10 PM »

My apologies to the OP and Jay for turning this thread into a s#*tshow. I'm done with it.

Shoot Doug.  This ain't a sh*t show.  This is patty cake.  :)   And it's been interesting.

JMO,

paulie

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2018, 08:05:50 PM »

So out of that 38m tons you came up with, do you think there was enough bauxite for Alcoa and Reynolds to produce enough aluminum for ALL of manufacturing in the US at that time? Lets say they mined 25% of that 38m tons. That is 9.5m tons. 25% of that would be 2.37m tons of aluminum, over a period of how ever many years you calculated, for ALL of aluminum manufacturing needs in the US.
Does that sound reasonable to you?


I guess you missed the part about that being Arkansas production only? And I didn't come up with that 38 million tons, it's a fact stated by knowledgeable professionals who know the actual figures. I'll even overlook the fact that ALCOA, being a major mining company, would probably have dealt with the biggest companies in the U.S. to sell their product. I get the fact that you can never admit that there's even a possibility you might be wrong about something. I'm pretty sure we all get that.

My apologies to the OP and Jay for turning this thread into a s#*tshow. I'm done with it.
LOL...the minute you turn an argument personal, you lose but I'll be your huckleberry...where was I wrong? I think you need to look in the mirror for that one.

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2018, 08:06:35 PM »
This thread has gone way astray - - but its been really educational.

The Arkansas bauxite mines look to have been the victims of multiple issues coming together at once.  Its a material that is strip mined - we all know how the environmental folks love that process.  The fact that it is really common in low cost countries, combined with the labor and environmental pressure, a weak economy in the early 80s, and the rise of recycling (aluminum is among the most recycled materials around) made the mines non-competitive.  I think we all need to schedule a group field trip to the bauxite museum in - of course - Bauxite, Arkansas....for research. They have to have a bar there....

The Rouge video is awesome.  Check out the gang hone doing four cylinders at once.  Or the lifter bore machine that hits all of them in a group.  The huge cutter doing the front face is cool.  Using a hand compressor to squeeze the rings is kinda surprising, as was the idea that the short block was assembled standing on end.  They point out the pressure check on the deck oil feed - that sunnuvabitch has apparently been a problem child from day one.  The hot start is neat and answers a couple questions that pop up from time to time - notice the cut away valve covers so they could do a visible oiling check.
With our luck it would be a dry county >:(

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2018, 08:43:59 PM »
Do you guys really still have dry counties??

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2018, 09:40:52 PM »
I have Competition Products rods.  They told me they were made by Oliver.  They are not factory FE dimensions, though.  They have SBC large journal big end and SBC pin size. 

paulie
Who and why would anyone want to call an Oliver rod anything other than Oliver ?

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2018, 12:00:47 AM »
My apologies to the OP and Jay for turning this thread into a s#*tshow. I'm done with it.
[/quote]

  Hey Doug,

  No worries here but thanks for the consideration. I deleted the thread at least once before deciding to go ahead and ask... it went as expected. lol  So far no responses to my emails and calls but I'm not in any huge rush.

 Someone along the way asked how much original stuff was on my engine in an attempt to prove a point. My builds differ from the popular stand points, with a full body passenger car my interest is an all original date matched build hiding as much punch as possible. If you're familiar with the extremes taken in pure stock racing with factory castings that's pretty much what we like in street/strip cars just without any class rules. My intent is an iron Hiriser built in this manor to run with some similar Hemi/409 cars around.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 12:07:31 AM by HvyFt4spd »

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2018, 05:09:05 AM »
I have Competition Products rods.  They told me they were made by Oliver.  They are not factory FE dimensions, though.  They have SBC large journal big end and SBC pin size. 

paulie
Who and why would anyone want to call an Oliver rod anything other than Oliver ?

Because they want to call it by their own name.  I think it is pretty common.  Didn't Dove used to make rocker arms for lots of other companies, like Comp Cams? 

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #54 on: May 08, 2018, 06:31:26 AM »
Do you guys really still have dry counties??
Yep, Went through the Jack Daniels distillery some time back and the only way you could get any bourbon in that county was to buy a souvenir bottle that just happened to come full of the devil's brew.  Of course by now the townspeople may have gathered up their pitch forks and overthrown the county seat, so who knows? ???
Len Zielinski
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cjshaker

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #55 on: May 08, 2018, 08:07:18 AM »
Someone along the way asked how much original stuff was on my engine in an attempt to prove a point. My builds differ from the popular stand points, with a full body passenger car my interest is an all original date matched build hiding as much punch as possible. If you're familiar with the extremes taken in pure stock racing with factory castings that's pretty much what we like in street/strip cars just without any class rules. My intent is an iron Hiriser built in this manor to run with some similar Hemi/409 cars around.

I completely get where you're coming from. I've gone to great lengths, and usually expense, to use U.S. sourced products in every way possible. I'm an avid backpacker and have some pretty extensive equipment, and I can't even say how much time I have invested in researching U.S. made products. And more often than not, they're the best products out there. Except for my tent which is made in Sweden, my boots which are made in Germany, every item is made by small companies here. So more power to you.

I have a lot of respect for the Pure Stock guys. I was just mentioning this to DaleP in a private message, asking him about fuel systems and using my stock tank for a hard launching car. Those guys have lots of ingenuity. I've always used stock stuff in the past, but my current build will use a Crower crank and Crower rods. You've just got to expect getting some flak for sticking to your guns. It's your car and your engine, so build it how YOU want.
Doug Smith


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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2018, 09:39:16 AM »
This is getting really bizarre.
Where does Crower get it's steel?
Dust from the Sahara regularly crosses the Atlantic, along with African air.  Think any of that dust or air gets incorporated into "American" products?  What about imported food and liquor that "Americans" (really? all American? born and raised?) consume so that they can go to work every morning in American factories?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 10:28:25 AM by Dumpling »

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2018, 09:51:13 AM »
It really doesn't bother me how people feel about this sorta thing.  Everybody has their own opinion and own viewpoints.

Only thing I scratch my head on is when someone has a 500-600 hp FE that would live forever with some Scat 4340 I-beam rods for $350 a set, but opt to pay $1900 for a set of Crowers just because of where they're made.  I don't have that kind of disposable income....hahaha

But hey, I'll be more than happy to sell the $1900 Crowers.   ;D
Brent Lykins
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scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2018, 11:23:13 AM »
This is getting really bizarre.
Where does Crower get it's steel?
Dust from the Sahara regularly crosses the Atlantic, along with African air.  Think any of that dust or air gets incorporated into "American" products?  What about imported food and liquor that "Americans" (really? all American? born and raised?) consume so that they can go to work every morning in American factories?
The computers we're using at this very moment...or cell phones, the cars we drive today, the clothes and shoes we wear, the beds we sleep in, the TV's we watch and radios we listen to, the appliances in our kitchens and laundry rooms... the list goes on.

Dumpling

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #59 on: May 08, 2018, 01:45:12 PM »
The computers and robots on the manufacturing floor, the CNC stations, the diamonds in the cutting tools (tungsten from China)...
« Last Edit: May 08, 2018, 02:28:02 PM by Dumpling »

TomP

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2018, 05:48:47 PM »
Make sure to buy them from Uncle Sam himself.  ::)

It's all foreign stuff to me. I'm only aware of a few Canadian parts makers, they make nearly all the gas tanks, plus rads and brake stuff. Nor many commonly available rods though, Ron Parr might be the only one and those are billet aluminum... not sure where it's mined.

winr1

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2018, 12:28:31 AM »
HvyFt4spd, what are ya building if I may ask ??



Ricky.

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2018, 05:08:19 PM »
Hey Ricky,

 This is "32bantam" I'm uncertain how I'm going to finish the build but I'm having a set of Hiriser heads done up. I was originally thinking big inch but I have some choices here that a nice set of rods would complete.
 

 

   


winr1

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2018, 12:42:20 AM »
Hey 32bantam  :)

Ahhhh, ya need some rods to handle some power safely it seems


The 418 for my 65 F 100 is gettin a set of C7 rods with almost no mileage on them

Lightened with ARP bolts an lightweight pistons

Let us know what ya decide on if ya will, always glad to see folks post their FE stuff




Ricky.



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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2018, 07:55:31 AM »
So, after all that, regardless of $, who makes the very best rods?

Crower, Lentz, some other make?
Bob Maag

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2018, 08:05:52 AM »
Crower, Oliver, Lentz, Pankl, Carrillo.....
Brent Lykins
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Lenz

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2018, 08:54:57 AM »
Crower, Oliver, Lentz, Pankl, Carrillo.....
;D Now that's diplomacy right there......
Len Zielinski
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babybolt

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2018, 07:43:55 PM »
When you do order these rods, and most of the time folks use a big block Chevy journal with big block Ford strokers, be sure that the rod has the beam centered in the middle of the bearing.  Off the shelf part numbers sometimes have the offset rods to fit BBC. 

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2018, 05:49:25 AM »
When you do order these rods, and most of the time folks use a big block Chevy journal with big block Ford strokers, be sure that the rod has the beam centered in the middle of the bearing.  Off the shelf part numbers sometimes have the offset rods to fit BBC.

Normally not that much issue with that unless the bore spacing is quite a bit off on the block.   And when it is off, it doesn't cause any issues. 

A couple of notes....

1.  Most brands (and most times) the rods are centered on the wrist pin, even without a special offset.  I've used almost every brand of connecting rod imaginable and while this is something I always check, I can only remember maybe 1-2 times that I took a second look at it.

2.  Even with a perfectly centered rod on the wrist pin, it will not stay centered while the engine is running due to rod side/side clearances. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 06:03:38 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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machoneman

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2018, 08:21:27 AM »
Thanks ;)!

Crower, Oliver, Lentz, Pankl, Carrillo.....
Bob Maag

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2018, 12:06:48 PM »
I just got the call from Oliver, nothing catalog spec or old stock available... Custom starts at $300 per rod and you are required to purchase a minimum of two extra rods vs the number required. So $3k per set on the low end... What was interesting is that I was told that was in case of a blem. I didn't ask but I'm curious how that works out if there are more than two blems in the order of ten? Of course this is Oliver but that is not a faith inspiring policy...

Howard's has nothing short and sweet in the email, no custom orders mentiond etc. No surprise in either case but you don't know for certain until you ask.

 I have more calls to make but if anyone has an old set of performance minded rods laying around I might be your buyer...6.54 rod preferred, 6.488 would be considered too.

Thanks, Dan
 

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2018, 10:32:45 PM »
i got a set of oliver billet 6.800 from a dealer a few years ago that did not have the chevy offset for around $1100.you dont want stock dim rods if your building a stroker anyway.
after looking at the molnars they look better than scat and eagles.i had a set of scat h-beams that had under cuts in the h part of the slot thinning it out.not for me.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 05:56:58 PM by hbstang »

plovett

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2018, 08:29:44 PM »
Will Callies make custom rods?

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2018, 03:23:39 PM »
Just out of curiosity.....Does anyone know where I can get fuel for my FE made from 100% USA Natural Materials? (Sorry, too good to pass up) :P
Jason
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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2018, 11:13:09 PM »
Cunningham makes an excellent connecting rod, and they will do custom sizes and lengths.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2018, 09:53:31 AM »
 Thanks Joe, I'm still shopping and chewing on what direction this will take.


___________________________

 I must say I'm surprised by the comments of all Ford blue through and through types here but I never told anyone what to think or what to buy. My original post stated that I was aware that the shelf model $450 Scat H beam rods would do the job but I was hoping for an upgrade in the $800-$1200 range. So far Scat and Molnar are all I'm aware of at that cost point and they have the endorsement of several people I respect the opinion of.

Whatever it is you guys do for living that puts you in a spot you feel uneffected by the race to the bottom, I say that's great for you. In my case I'm directly hindered by it and willing to pay up to support other businesses like mine in hopes of a certain quality. When the quality is not there or the price doesn't match the product or application I will certainly buy from whoever and wherever that need is met by best. Home team gets my support first, from the family run market by the shop to made in the US or simply not made in China if at all possible.
 Each and every thing here is built under a different criteria. Some are all Ford etc using only NOS parts. Some are whatever works, some are top shelf for the bragging rights and nothing more but each customer gets what they are after. No matter the request I certainly don't insult them for it. This is for one of my personal cars and all that should matter is that I'm willing to pay for my intent.

  I don't have interest or time to address each point and joke here but one that sticks out being automotive related was the note of Tungstens. Should anyone here be in the restoration field regardless of where it was mined you might notice that points and voltage regulator contacts just don't last any more. I buy NOS even used if needed vs Elchin today. The same is true of Tig electrodes.... My old stock I can sharpen for nearly a weeks worth of 22-18gauge steel welding, buy a new $50 10 pack of today's best garbage results in maybe an hour or so. On stainless and  small items every inch of welding requires a resharpen for the best effort scenario. That or a step up in size which may or may not be the best idea.

fekbmax

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2018, 10:42:31 AM »
The same is true of Tig electrodes.... My old stock I can sharpen for nearly a weeks worth of 22-18gauge steel welding, buy a new $50 10 pack of today's best garbage results in maybe an hour or so. On stainless and  small items every inch of welding requires a resharpen for the best effort scenario. That or a step up in size which may or may not be the best idea.
[/quote]

I'm with ya on this..
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2018, 04:24:13 PM »
If you're running BB Chev journals, you could run a set of these;


1967 XR7 GT

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2018, 06:23:44 PM »
I am having a set of Pauter rods made for my 427 build. Picture is one of a set I had made for some one in Europe.

Rods are made here in San Diego CA, on my build, I am going for original or US made parts



« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 12:11:28 PM by 1967 XR7 GT »
Richard

 "Frankly, I'm tired of hearing all the complaints; makes me wonder why I bother hosting this forum."

Phil Brown

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2018, 06:57:13 PM »
I am having a set of Pauter rods made for my 427 build. Picture is one of a set I had made for some one in Europe.

Rods are made here in San Diego CA, on my build, I am going for original or US made parts



Kinda hard to tighten the bolts when there made like that though (unless its a VW motor :-) )

scott foxwell

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2018, 09:29:43 PM »
I am having a set of Pauter rods made for my 427 build. Picture is one of a set I had made for some one in Europe.

Rods are made here in San Diego CA, on my build, I am going for original or US made parts



Kinda hard to tighten the bolts when there made like that though (unless its a VW motor :-) )
Might have just a little clearance issue as well...

1967 XR7 GT

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2018, 12:04:49 PM »
Yes they were for a 2.9 ltr Porsche motor, 5.8" and 2.0" Chevy jrls, and he opted for the ARP Custom Aged 625 bolts. I still on occasion run the early SBC rods and I just flip the bolts. I've used the Pauter rods on several builds.

And of course my rods will have the bolts going the other way, for all of you that showed your concern... ;D


I am having a set of Pauter rods made for my 427 build. Picture is one of a set I had made for some one in Europe.

Rods are made here in San Diego CA, on my build, I am going for original or US made parts
Richard

 "Frankly, I'm tired of hearing all the complaints; makes me wonder why I bother hosting this forum."

HvyFt4spd

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2018, 01:05:01 PM »
Richard,

      Could you share what these cost and if any of them were for the FE journal?  Pauter also makes some serious rockers and the "big block" VW engine so I'm familar with them. The one crank I bought may not be able to be cut down far enough to use the Chevy sizes.

 Thanks, Dan

1967 XR7 GT

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #83 on: May 28, 2018, 12:40:07 AM »
I've just bought them for 6 & 4 cyl motors, so no not an FE jrl yet. But an 8 cyl set are $1,968.00, but with ARP 2000 bolts, the 625 bolts bumps the price. I would use the extra clamping force of the ARP 625 bolts if the rod & piston combo are heavy and or if I was going to pull some RPM. The $1,968.00 price is for what ever pin size and rod length is chosen. And they take 5 weeks.

Since I am having rods & pistons made, I was looking to go a .990" pin and a 6.7 or 6.8" rod on an FE jrl.
Richard

 "Frankly, I'm tired of hearing all the complaints; makes me wonder why I bother hosting this forum."

HvyFt4spd

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Re: FE rod options?
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2018, 11:39:53 AM »
Thanks for taking the time here!