T-10 vs Toploader

[mbrunson427]

I've been kicking back and forth what I should do for a transmission so I'm looking for some advice/opinions. Car is a '62 Galaxie, engine is going to be a 428 stroker, built for street driving. I have the original T-10 that came out of the car. Part of me would like to re-use it. Obviously the toploader is the stronger option. I have a toploader to use as well but I'd need to find a different tailhousing (probably just send it to David Kee and tell him to do the works).

Questions:
-What makes a T-10 the lesser option? Can they be built up? What are the weak links?
-Are different gear sets available for the T-10, first gear in that car is very tall?
-Doing a toploader conversion, what is required? Does the shifter location change at all?

I'm just trying to make the right decision here. I'd hate to get a toploader and have to modify stuff only to later find out that I could have simply beefed up a T-10 and been just as happy for less effort and been running original parts.

Also, I'm not interested in a TKO transmission, I'd have to chop up the floor pan and I'm not willing to do that on this car.

[gt350hr]

   The T-10 design is inherently weaker. From the case design to the width of the gears  is is simply not up to aggressive driving.  NOW if you treat it with respect , and use the modern "hooked" sliders ( for the synchro assemblies) it will work fine and shift like butter without popping out of gear ( the most common problem). T-10s were offered in a wide ratio 2.78 low and a close ratio 2.36.   "I" would keep it away from a drag strip and certainly not "dump the clutch" with slicks if I did go to the track. If you have that in mind make the switch to a top loader just like Ford had to do back in the 60's There are NO modifications that  can keep the gears from breaking even the heavy duty high nickle gears made way back when.
    A top loader  requires different shit levers and rods at the minimum. The shifter "will" work but the actual top loader shifter is beefed up. It should be used if any track use is planned.  If more strip use is planned the top loader  input can be changed to the 1-3/8ths aize and the output can go to the 31 soline to reduce ( but not totally eliminate) breakage. Heavy weight and big torque are hard on transmission parts.

[BattlestarGalactic]

I've never tried a T10, but always ran a toploader in my hot rods.

I would suggest the big input change over.  The 31 output is nice, unfortunately it only changes the splines and has no other improvements to anything else inside the transmission(besides being a new part which is likely stronger then the original factory part).  I did both to the one I ran in the wagon and now resides in my '69 F100 (428cj).  Never broke it running 13.0's in the wagon with 8" slicks.

Like I usually say to guys trying to play with stick shift toys.  Buy the good stuff now, as you will only have to do it again when you break the weaker stuff.  That is typically why people give up on sticks.   They won't spend the money to "do it right" the first time, but try to keep fixing the wrong stuff a few times and get mad about it.

Just my opinion...only worth what you paid for it.   

[e philpott]

For street the BW should be fine , especially on street tires

[cjshaker]

I would never run the T-10 behind any FE unless it's just a family type grocery getter or mild cruiser. It just won't hold up to it very well if you're going to do some spirited driving and having fun...which pretty much all of us do. Even behind a healthy small block, they're questionable. Not saying they're bad transmissions, they're actually pretty good, given the right scenario. I busted a couple behind small blocks, when I was young, and went to the toploader. I'd never switch back.

[cammerfe]

Within a couple of months of taking delivery of my new Custom/427 in February of '64, I twisted off the output shaft on the factory T-10. I granny-shifted 1-2 and got no second gear so it must have already been badly twisted. I worked at the Trans Plant and talked to Bruno Zava, the Plant Executive Engineer, who got a big in-out Toploader released to me. At that time they weren't released for the parts chain, but there were always a few new things around.

I had to get all the necessary parts to go with it, from the TO bearing and fork, to a new disc, to a front yoke for the driveshaft. And a new Hurst shifter. But I never again had a problem with the trans.

I, too, believe a T-10 is only of value for a grocery-getter with a stock 352.

KS

[machoneman]

I was going to stay out of this one but have to agree. It's a weak-kneed tranny for sure.

With a stroker engine, even in a street car, it's a very poor mix, one you'd eventually regret.

The ST-10  (Super T-10) is a step-up but we used to break 2-3 every season in a drag car that admittedly had 575 hp, slicks, Dana 60/5 series gear,  etc. but man, we wasted lots of new parts and entire trannys regularly. The real issue was a weak, poorly designed iron case that spread under load and broke the cluster and/or gears.

See Kee's list of labor/parts and consider going that way.....


http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/remanufactured.htm


I, too, believe a T-10 is only of value for a grocery-getter with a stock 352.

KS
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[mbrunson427]

Well......that about settles it. I'll spend the cash.

[KMcCullah]

Dad has been straight up abusing the shit out of a T-10 lately. In his '71 F100. 4:10 rear gear. With drag radials too. He built this T-10 out of a box full of scattered ones. And mated it up with my old hotrod 390. It doesn't like to shift at 7k. Not quickly anyhow. He said back in the sixties he had a fleet of T-10's. He would blow one up Friday night....blow one up Saturday night and slowly drive one to work Monday morning.    I'm glad he went with the blow proof bell housing.

[mbrunson427]

https://denver.craigslist.org/pts/d/ford-toploader-4-speed/6409463473.html

I found this one. Talked with Neal Rhodes and had him look at the pictures. He thinks 2nd and 3rd will need to be redone. I'll probably have David Kee send me a whole wide ratio kit and be done with it. Heading there after work tonight to try and make a deal on it. If I can get this, I think the economics will work out better than redoing the T-10 anyhow. I already have a bellhousing and clutch for the toploader.

[gt350hr]

   "I" prefer to keep the original Ford gears and use the new "hooked" synchro assemblies. Ford gears were forged and most of the aftermarket stuff is billet. This is one place where billet isn't better. Just my 2 cents worth of experience from the last 50+ years of building them.
    Randy

[cammerfe]

The gear forgings were made at Canton (Ohio) Forge Plant. I was in QC at Livonia T&C as a Met Process Engineer and every once in a while I had to catch the morning Ford flight from Metro to Akron/Canton, spend the day, and then go back on the evening flight while helping keep track of what was going on.

We did some strange things with those forgings, including a series of special runs that started with the forged blanks, and used a special set-up on the Bullard hobs to make gears for the LeMans program. As you probably know, the GT40s used a transaxle that was basically a Toploader gearset and a 9" center section all in a specially-made case. A dozen or more of them, as spares, sat in a storage area close by the Chem & Met labs for years, before finally being sent to H&M.

KS

[gt350hr]

   1.84 ( or 1.74) first gear ratio on one of those special sets. Over drive on another special set. I have the original ratio chart at home on the shop wall.

[ntheogen]

Mike, call all state gear in Texas. They have all the Toploader parts, including the wide ratio big input pieces, for a great price. I just had 11 Toploaders redone and I got all I could from them and the rest from David Kee. Should save you a few pennies. Jack

[mbrunson427]

Mike, call all state gear in Texas. They have all the Toploader parts, including the wide ratio big input pieces, for a great price. I just had 11 Toploaders redone and I got all I could from them and the rest from David Kee. Should save you a few pennies. Jack

Awesome! Thanks for the tip. I ended up buying that toploader Tuesday night.