Water Pump. Edel, TSP, TuffStuff, Gates etc ?

[427HISS]

I know for the most part, you get what you pay for in life, including engine parts, but that's not always true.
There are a lot of low cost products that have high quality. The list in the heading are from $103-$357 for the Edelbrock.
One of them are supposed to have a cnc'd impellar, but states that a few come out from the factory that may to to remove the rear plate
and use silicone to prevent or stop leaking on your engine. Ok,....lol

I've alwayes used Edelbrock, but I also have had Tuff Stuff products, with no issues.

What have you heard of the lower cost water pumps, or your advise if you have used them ?

[mbrunson427]

https://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/store/Water%20Pumps-Ford-CID:%20427/7.0L/c21_30_133/index.html

Used these 3 times in a row now without issue. They have a billet impeller, cast iron body. You can order them from summit. I always take the back plate off and re-seal it anyways.

Tried an Edelbrock on the Mustang and on the Cougar. Both times fought overheating issues until the water pump was changed out. I recently talked about this with an engine builder and he stated that he always uses a smaller pulley when using the edelbrock pumps.

[427HISS]

Interesting, why smaller, which means the pump with be faster running ?

I did not know the years for the FE's mean a different pump ?
So we must find out what year our engine was built ?

Ok, found why on their website-

Prior to 1965 Ford FE motors utilized a generator.  In 1965 Ford switched to an alternator.  If you require a dowel pin to accomodate generator brackets, order Pump 1642E

From what I see and read, it looks great and a the price is nice.
 Only problem is, I really need it polished. I can do it again, but didn't want to this time on my new engine.

[turbohunter]

Hmm, very interesting write up as to why their impellers work.
Let me throw this out there in an effort to gain knowledge;
They say a high flow impeller reduces the cycle time between the heat source and heat sink (radiator) thus giving more opportunity to cool.
If this is true wouldn't that also go the other way? The cycle time between heat sink and heat source gives the coolant more time to heat up?
They also say a high flow gives better flow any low speeds and all the way through the rpm range, saying that block pressure is increased by 22 percent. Knowing how old FEs can leak do we want that?
Next they state that the pumps can save 2.2 percent hp. That goes against what I know about oil pumps. Are they different?
And lastly these pumps reduce engine temps by as much as 30 degrees. Really?
I will probably end up buying one of these and see if it is all true. I certainly don't doubt the first hand experience expressed above but their write up left me with questions.

[427HISS]

That's what I said. lol 
Na, didn't think about those thoughts. hanks, yourr smarrter thas mez.

[Barry_R]

I have installed over a hundred Edelbrock pumps on dyno tested engines.
So far they are 100% good - cannot remember a bad one at all

[427HISS]

Barry, how about the others listed, have you tried any ?

[scott foxwell]

Hmm, very interesting write up as to why their impellers work.
Let me throw this out there in an effort to gain knowledge;
They say a high flow impeller reduces the cycle time between the heat source and heat sink (radiator) thus giving more opportunity to cool.
If this is true wouldn't that also go the other way? The cycle time between heat sink and heat source gives the coolant more time to heat up?
They also say a high flow gives better flow any low speeds and all the way through the rpm range, saying that block pressure is increased by 22 percent. Knowing how old FEs can leak do we want that?
Next they state that the pumps can save 2.2 percent hp. That goes against what I know about oil pumps. Are they different?
And lastly these pumps reduce engine temps by as much as 30 degrees. Really?
I will probably end up buying one of these and see if it is all true. I certainly don't doubt the first hand experience expressed above but their write up left me with questions.

The greatest  amount of cooling (most heat transfer) takes place where there is the greatest differential in temp. The longer the water sits in the block (increased cycle time), the less it cools. The faster it moves through the block (reduced cycle time), the more it cools...as long as the radiator can remove the heat that the water absorbs. If using a restrictor and slowing down the water flow helps cool the engine, it usually means the radiator isn't doing it's job. It also may increase block pressure.
Pressure raises the boiling point and helps reduce steam pockets. Steam pockets can become super heated and add a lot of heat to the engine and water. Pressure also helps reduce cavitation.
More efficient water passages and impeller design can move more water with less energy.
I remember when Flowcooler started. They would modify your factory pump and they would sell impellers. Small company just north of where I lived. Their stuff works.

[turbohunter]

That makes sense, thanks Scott.

[GJCAT427]

I put an Edelbrock on my 427. Was very PO at first. It was leaking water. Took some time to track it down but discovered it was the backing plate gasket. After fixing that with a new gasket, it works very well. I always thought it ran a little hotter on my gauge and last yr it went to the hot side going down the road. Come to find out it was the temp sending unit in the manifold. To track it down I used a laser thermostat and checked random spots om the block, the radiator, thermos housing and hoses and water pump. The hottest point was the thermos housing at 180*. It seems the pump is doing its job of moving water efficiently and the radiator is working just fine. 

[427HISS]

Thanks Scott. I'll  have to see if Flowcooler has a polished pump. I might try it over the expensive Edelbrock. I like them, but looking for lower cost and something different and,.....cool. (sorry, just had to)

[Chrisss31]

Scott, That's an interesting take on a cooling system and thinking about it for a minute I think you are 100% correct.  I've heard a lot of people say that it's better to move the water slower to give it more time to soak heat (or what ever their technical explanation is), but what you are saying makes more sense.  If the radiator is able to reject the heat no matter how fast it's moving-faster would be better and more efficient.  There is no disputing the fact that the larger the temp differential is the more heat will be transferred.  Plus all of the other benefits of having more pressure on the system too.

[BigBlueIron]

If using a restrictor and slowing down the water flow helps cool the engine, it usually means the radiator isn't doing it's job. It also may increase block pressure.
Pressure raises the boiling point and helps reduce steam pockets. Steam pockets can become super heated and add a lot of heat to the engine and water. Pressure also helps reduce cavitation.
More efficient water passages and impeller design can move more water with less energy.

This I completely agree.

If a t stat sticks open an engine will not or should not reach operating temperature, ok if said engine is being worked at full load it should still not overheat, as at that point assuming it reaches t stat temp the t stat is full open anyway. Of course this is more heavy duty thinking where a cooling system is designed with extended full engine load. Extreme compromises are made for the automotive use, especially in hot rodding where larger/ more powerful engines (higher BTU ouput) are used in existing platforms or jammed in a even smaller engine bay with a small rad.

Personal example, a field tractor that never comes to temp unless worked for an extend period. The tractor could be worked at full load in a stationary environment with no overheating (as long as the rad was clear of derbies). The thermostats where completely deteriorated. 

[Falcon67]

I've always used Flowkooler and have yet to replace a pump. Now everything is electric on my 351Cs but the Flowkoolers are in a box waiting on next assignment.

Radiator is a heat exchanger.  The hotter the working fluid, the more efficient the exchange.  Why your AC doesn't work with a crp if it's snowing outside.  I tend to run my street engines "hot" - 195F or better.  Griffin radiator engineer said it's a simple truth - hot water = cool motor.  Over that, running the engine in the 190+ range minimizes wear and reduces oil contamination. 

My exception is the dragster - it uses a "restrictor" - -12 AN hoses and no t-stat.  I stage at 160F, come back 180 or better depending on the weather.  But I have full control of the fan and water pump operation, plus I'm not driving it to Dairy Queen either.  I get it down to 140F or less before heading to staging.

[wayne]

Factory pumps used different impellers  a 352 was smaller then a 428 cj i always thought they were all the same.i have a copy of a complete ford book it has then side by side with the covers off.I know your talking aftermarket but i just added this.

































































































































































































































































































































































All fe factory pumps are not the same a 428 cj has a bigger impeller then say a 352 I always thought they were all the same my copy of the complete ford book shows some with the cover off side by side. I know you are talking aftermarket but i just thought i would add this.