C6AE-R

[scott foxwell]

Thought I'd share what can be done with a simple quality valve job and some very minor bowl blending. No "porting".
Upgrade to 2.05 / 1.65 REV valves x 11/32 stems, 1/2" bronze guides, 45* valve job and a 30* back cut on intake. Flowed on a 4.08 fixture plate over a 4.05 bore fixture, SF600 bench. Nothing earth shattering, but I thought respectable numbers for the work involved.

[chilly460]

Pretty solid numbers for the amount of work.  Nice to be able to turn $100 set of heads into something respectable for a 390 for half the cost of Edelbrocks. 

[a70eliminator]

Anyone have a set I can buy for 100.00?

[thatdarncat]

Do you have pictures of the exhaust port side and the exhaust port dimensions?

[plovett]

That's friggin' nice.  Excellent bang for the buck. 

thanks for sharing,

paulie

[scott foxwell]

Do you have pictures of the exhaust port side and the exhaust port dimensions?

Port and opening are stock. I'll get a pic tomorrow. Ex port was flowed with a 1-3/4 id pipe.

[scott foxwell]

Do you have pictures of the exhaust port side and the exhaust port dimensions?

This is the one I flowed (has the cross over passage)



No. 3...



Bowl...

[FERoadster]

I'd like to see someone do the same upgrades to D2TE-A heads and C8AE H heads and show the comparisons.
I'm getting ready to take some D2's and some C8AE's to the scrap yard. (like 8 sets)
Hate to do that but I'm far away  and the cost to ship negates any value. 
Richard

[manofmerc]

Richard this guy in florida was always wanting heads c8-d2 etc. give him a call I don't remember his name possibly Jack 239 822 3078 .And Scott thanks sharing this posting good job .Doug

[machoneman]

Nice work! Those REV valves look terrific too.

We talked here some time ago about what if...one took the old 351C inspired trick of cutting the exhaust plane on an iron head off, add the bar stock port plates, and literally moved the exhaust roof up and inch or so. That and straighten out the OEM dog-leg angles of the port, either step requiring custom headers. 

Alas, I guess, aside from the very limited market, at what point does it stop being an FE?

It's been amazing though in recent years all the 302/351W and 351C killer (and I do mean killer!) heads that CHI, AFR, World and others have designed to incorporate tiny chambers, radically raised intake and exhaust ports, different valve angles and the like. And yes, I've seen the FE Losito heads, billet heads, TFS's, Edel-B's and more. Yet even now, none take the radical approach I've noted above, still including SBF inspired changes elsewhere.

[cjshaker]

We talked here some time ago about what if...one took the old 351C inspired trick of cutting the exhaust plane on an iron head off, add the bar stock port plates, and literally moved the exhaust roof up and inch or so. That and straighten out the OEM dog-leg angles of the port, either step requiring custom headers. 

That was me. I had one exhaust port milled off to see how feasible it was to do and what advantage it would give. While I think it would have made a fairly significant difference, two things pretty much killed the idea for me. First, it would only work in non-shock towered cars. Second, the intake will only get so good, so a major improvement to the exhaust isn't really required. Maybe it would have been better on a HR or TP head, but you'd have to be an idiot to cut them up like that..lol
I just pulled that head out again the other day and was looking at it. More accurately, it was in my road and I had to move it

[chris401]

Richard this guy in florida was always wanting heads c8-d2 etc. give him a call I don't remember his name possibly Jack 239 822 3078 .And Scott thanks sharing this posting good job .Doug

Over the years Jack has purchased seven sets of heads and a few sets of rods from me. Buying a bunch of parts no longer made just to scrap them is a waste. I have no complaints with any cash deals I have done with Jack.

[cammerfe]

Jim Dove, over the years, offered three different designs of exhaust ports. One was pretty much 'factory'. The second type altered the head to such an extent that the exterior of the head, in the exhaust area, didn't look 'FE'. The exits were raised about an inch, moved further apart, and re-shaped the runners to offer a 'lower-corner-lopped-off' effect.

In addition, if one were to roll up a sheet of paper and push it into a factory exhaust port, the paper would, essentially, exit at about 90 degrees to the head/port surface. Doing so on the Dove-design port would result in a decided upward angle. Custom headers were necessary.

As said above, this means that the heads can't be used in a 'spring tower' car---unless the towers are altered in radical fashion. We used such heads, the Tunnel-Port variety, in Brother Lon's car. I removed the spring towers entirely, and we filled in the openings and used coil-overs out in the wheel wells. We also used properly-sized circle-track 'A' arms, with the attachment points moved down and out.

The car now resides in Oz.

KS

[manofmerc]

I just have to say this .With the new trick flow head and Jays over the top head prototype getting so much press .We all shouldn't forget how well the old iron can actually perform .Those flow numbers are as good as or possibly better than out of the box edelbrocks .Very respectable .The chevy boys just don't know how well those old ford heads actually work .Good job Scott I didn't want your post to get lost! Doug

[scott foxwell]

I just have to say this .With the new trick flow head and Jays over the top head prototype getting so much press .We all shouldn't forget how well the old iron can actually perform .Those flow numbers are as good as or possibly better than out of the box edelbrocks .Very respectable .The chevy boys just don't know how well those old ford heads actually work .Good job Scott I didn't want your post to get lost! Doug

Thanks Doug. We'll see how they do on my 390.
My thought on ex ports; the air WILL go out that hole. The most critical part of the ex port is the valve job and throat. After that it's just a hole. 99% of the work is done the second that valve cracks off the seat. The rest is just time to let the "event" take place. We like to think we know what's happening in the ex port, but we really don't. Flow bench is all but meaningless when it comes to ex ports other than for cam design and selling heads.

[cjshaker]

99% of the work is done the second that valve cracks off the seat. The rest is just time to let the "event" take place. We like to think we know what's happening in the ex port, but we really don't. Flow bench is all but meaningless when it comes to ex ports other than for cam design and selling heads.

I was sorta amazed at the slow motion video on YouTube of the Briggs & Stratton engine with the plexiglass head. Of course it has practically zero in common with any car engine, but you can still see how almost instantaneously the exhaust exits the chamber. And like you said, the rest of the event is just time to get that last little bit out to not contaminate the incoming mixture. Still, getting that last little bit out makes a big difference in the next combustion cycle. And despite some of the tests showing how little of a difference headers make in power production, there's plenty of data showing the effects of a well designed system in a drag application. Not so much on most street applications though.

[scott foxwell]

bump for chilly460

[chilly460]

Thanks, definitely helps me to see what I'm aiming for with the bowl blending.

[scott foxwell]

Thanks, definitely helps me to see what I'm aiming for with the bowl blending.

No problem. Let me know if you'd like better pics.

[cammerfe]

I just have to say this .With the new trick flow head and Jays over the top head prototype getting so much press .We all shouldn't forget how well the old iron can actually perform .Those flow numbers are as good as or possibly better than out of the box edelbrocks .Very respectable .The chevy boys just don't know how well those old ford heads actually work .Good job Scott I didn't want your post to get lost! Doug

Thanks Doug. We'll see how they do on my 390.
My thought on ex ports; the air WILL go out that hole. The most critical part of the ex port is the valve job and throat. After that it's just a hole. 99% of the work is done the second that valve cracks off the seat. The rest is just time to let the "event" take place. We like to think we know what's happening in the ex port, but we really don't. Flow bench is all but meaningless when it comes to ex ports other than for cam design and selling heads.

Just as an experiment, bolt plates over the exhaust ports with a quarter-inch hole in them.    ANYTHING that interferes with the gas flow out of the chamber is a power-robber. Cylinder pressure is certainly helping the gas get out, but a free path is of great assistance!

KS

[scott foxwell]

I just have to say this .With the new trick flow head and Jays over the top head prototype getting so much press .We all shouldn't forget how well the old iron can actually perform .Those flow numbers are as good as or possibly better than out of the box edelbrocks .Very respectable .The chevy boys just don't know how well those old ford heads actually work .Good job Scott I didn't want your post to get lost! Doug

Thanks Doug. We'll see how they do on my 390.
My thought on ex ports; the air WILL go out that hole. The most critical part of the ex port is the valve job and throat. After that it's just a hole. 99% of the work is done the second that valve cracks off the seat. The rest is just time to let the "event" take place. We like to think we know what's happening in the ex port, but we really don't. Flow bench is all but meaningless when it comes to ex ports other than for cam design and selling heads.

Just as an experiment, bolt plates over the exhaust ports with a quarter-inch hole in them.    ANYTHING that interferes with the gas flow out of the chamber is a power-robber. Cylinder pressure is certainly helping the gas get out, but a free path is of great assistance!

KS

Not true. Velocity through the valve job and throat are important, just like the intake port. A certain amount of restriction is preferred/needed/desired. Your example of the 1/4" hole is ignoring the fact that the valve job and throat are the most critical part. You either didn't understand what I was saying or you took it way too literal.