Author Topic: Carburetor madness by Drew  (Read 50058 times)

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Drew Pojedinec

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Carburetor madness by Drew
« on: October 18, 2017, 06:13:42 PM »
Due to the request made in another thread I'll be detailing some plating and other fun here.

This time I've been seriously busy..... work has been recalling me a lot, so I haven't had more than a few days at home.  Worse yet, when I did get home I'd immediately get a call that I am "on notice to ship out with 12 hours notice" so it's been hard to prioritize my projects.

That said, I'll repost a carburetor I did awhile ago.
Just an 1850, was gross.   I cleaned to perfection, drilled and tapped all bleeds as follows:
-2 Primary idle air bleeds
-2 high speed air bleeds
-4 emulsion bleeds
-2 power valve channel restriction bleeds
-2 secondary idle air bleeds
-2 secondary high speed air bleeds
-2 idle feed restrictions
-2 metering plate restriction
-2 idle feed restrictions for the secondary

I also added .140 downleg boosters
Everything got beadblasted than back to the ultrasonic cleaner, than hand cleaned, dipped in a pickle, water washed and than dipped in a dichromate to seal the metal.  Replated linkage and hardware as needed and redid the base plate like I wanted it.  I use SS plates that are a good bit thinner.

I've got 400 miles on this setup and it's probably the best 1850 based carb I've built.  All metal appears to be holding out with no signs of fading.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 06:15:18 PM by Drew Pojedinec »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 06:21:20 PM »
I also do a good bit of hand polishing of the venturi prior to dipping in the dichromate.
A future project will be to build a flow bench, which will be handy for matching each venturi flow.

So I've been experimenting with a variety of chemicals to get different colors.  I've probably done 40-50 bowls to get to where I'm at currently at now.
Temperature and pre metal prep is very important, so you need to be heating or accounting for the different temps.

Acid washes help open up the pores in the metal for a better "take" of the dichromate.

I have several washes:
Nitric acid
Muriatic acid
Phosphoric acid
Hydrochloric acid
Sodium Hydroxide (ok it's a base)

By using different acid washes you get a different color or tone to each type of dichromate.  i currently have 7 different dichromates, so there is a good bit of variation, but these are the three main hues I'm aiming for

Below you can see the main Holley colors I can get with these dips.  Gold, Olive, and the lighter grey.  The composition of the original carburetor matters as well.  If prep isn't perfect you get some mottled (like on the gold below).  That will have to go through the whole process again in order to get an even color.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 09:34:01 PM by Drew Pojedinec »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 06:26:22 PM »
I'll get to zinc plating the linkage later, got a car coming to the shop in the morning I have to spend a few hours on :P
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 09:35:02 PM by Drew Pojedinec »

country63sedan

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 05:56:33 PM »
Looking good Drew. I just cleaned up and kitted a 2100, it looked great an hour ago. Now that I've seen this, it looks like crap.  ;) Seriously though, you should be proud of making a ball of corrosion and varnish into something that looks like new again.  Later, Travis

Heo

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2017, 07:09:52 PM »
Nice work



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

jayb

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 09:10:21 PM »
That is really cool.  Can you give more details on the chemicals and processes involved?  For example, what's involved in getting a dichromate finish on the parts?  Is it just a dip, or an acid wash first then dip, or do you have to heat the bath, how long do you let the parts sit in the bath, etc. etc.  Bringing those old carbs back to life is a really neat project...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 09:33:45 PM »
Jay,
You really need to use one of the acids to open the pores/etch the zamac, otherwise the dichromate is really streaky or splotchy.  Kinda like the gold bowl how that corner didn't fully take.   Probably just some oil that was still in there.  Some parts absolutely will not recolor properly.  That is one of the reasons I'm upgrading my plating station, I'll just go ahead and replate the whole main body/metering blocks/bowls etc and then go through the whole recoloring process again.

So let it sit in there for 15-60 seconds, pull it out and water wash it.  water wash it in another bucket, water wash it in another bucket.  blow it off really quick and dip into the dichromate.
This keeps you from contaminating the dichromate and also deactivates the acids.
The acids don't need to be heated, but the convertor/dichromate needs to be either an even temperature or you need to account of cold, like it needs to soak longer.
again, 15-60 seconds, maybe a lil longer.  You can pull the piece out and look at the color.  When done it needs to be water washed again as it'll keep darkening.
It's a zinc convertor, like ospho is for steel, so treat it in the same manner.

When done with the dip, they need to dry.  You can add heat but not much, 120-140 would be the upper limit.

Again, these chemicals are pretty nasty. So wear gloves, don't touch stuff, etc.

I intended to set up a larger plating table for actual electroplating of zinc and do some photos of that operation, but just got called back to work, which sucks.
I worked through half of my time off last time, and it looks like instead of a month off, I only get 8 days off and then gone for the next 7+ weeks.
Got home, got a 302 tuned and running a 32 Ford, did yard cleanup because there was a hurricane a month ago and I got called back to work, so the trees were still there.  Just spent the day tuning a 482 in a 63 Galaxie for some nice folks.  No time for plating projects.  Hopefully I'll get to it next time I'm home.

Either way, it's a weird hobby but a fun one.  I doubt there is a ton of profit in it, but it's rewarding in it's own way.  I suspect I have 10-20 man hours in each carb, mostly just due to getting everything absolutely perfect, if it isn't perfect, you pretty much have to start over.  Plus saving old car parts and refinishing them keeps them out of the scrap pile, I've been less than thrilled with a lot of the new junk out there.  Maybe someday I'll get decent enough at this to try proper restoration work, but I'm just messing around right now, I don't think I'm skilled enough to handle precious originals at the time.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 09:50:02 PM by Drew Pojedinec »

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 09:41:17 PM »
Looking good Drew. I just cleaned up and kitted a 2100, it looked great an hour ago. Now that I've seen this, it looks like crap.  ;) Seriously though, you should be proud of making a ball of corrosion and varnish into something that looks like new again.  Later, Travis

A good bit of the look is due to my tools I have for this.

-clean the surface and loose junk
-Ultrasonic cleaner for the next step
-glass bead blast to further clean and get an even finish
-back to manual cleaning again, mostly to get the beads out of everything (it takes forever, seriously)
-Then on the metal prep and recoloring

I can see why there aren't a lot of folks doing this.  If starting from scratch, you could easily spend 3-4k just to get into the game.  For someone just doing 4-5 carbs a decade it'd be wiser to just find someone already doing this and pay them the $100 or whatever to redo them.

machoneman

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 07:48:29 AM »
Have you tried walnut shells in place of the beads?
Bob Maag

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 07:51:22 AM »
Have you tried walnut shells in place of the beads?

I have not.  Tho I will comment, 10 out of 10 restorers I spoke with (who would even talk to me, most of them are pretty tight lipped) said they use glass beads.

machoneman

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 08:03:47 AM »
That is surprising as race shops I know of and much 'Net talk now give a huger no-no to glass on any internal engine parts. Pics too of engine damage from glass beads they thought were removed.
Bob Maag

Heo

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 08:06:10 AM »
My friend that run a Harley shop.
First sandblast with a fine sand
then glassbead to get the texture.
He says you need to sandblast first
to get all dirt out. Otherwise the glass
peen some dirt in to the metall.
Have you tried that?

Actually his process is like this. sandblast then in the hotwater
washer glassbead the another hotwater wash
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 08:09:06 AM by Heo »



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

machoneman

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 08:11:06 AM »
No I haven't. But folks like Hastings and actual race piston makers advise either be 100% sure of glass bead removal or use another method. I wonder too if soda blasting could be as effective.

https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs/pressure-cleaning-media-engines
Bob Maag

Heo

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 08:12:58 AM »
I saw somwhere in a magazine about blasting carbs with bakingsoda



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Carburetor madness by Drew
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 09:00:46 AM »
No I haven't. But folks like Hastings and actual race piston makers advise either be 100% sure of glass bead removal or use another method. I wonder too if soda blasting could be as effective.
https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/tech-tips-faqs/pressure-cleaning-media-engines

From your link:
"Your shop must establish a reliable cleaning process that will completely remove all cleaning media from the engine parts, or expensive engine damage will result."

To which I would respond,  "DUH"

On another note, I wouldn't consider doing this to internal engine parts or pistons, that is just weird and I don't see the benefit.  Doing and intake manifold?  maybe if a ton of prep was done on keeping the media out of the ports, but an FE intake, it's literally impossible to access all the areas, so I wouldn't.  I typically soda blast intakes.