Author Topic: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...  (Read 4696 times)

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cjshaker

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Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« on: October 03, 2017, 10:18:02 PM »
First I'd like to give a big Thank You to Royce for allowing me, for the 2nd year in a row, to be a Team Member on his EMC entry this year.
It was only a couple days before the event that he informed me that I'd be his ONLY Team Member. Great, no pressure there!..lol

2nd, I'd like to apologize for not having many pictures of his engine. I was so concerned with trying to help any way I could, then got so busy today with the dyno runs and the intake change he had planned, that I didn't take as many pictures as I thought I did. UGH! My apologies to Royce :-[

Here's a couple shots of Royce's engine before it was mounted on the dyno cart and before the upper intake with the dual throttle bodies were installed and wired.





For those that didn't know, John Kaase used Royce's engine from last year, made some of his own modifications and ran it in the event this year. John seemed to have a lot of respect for Royce, and that should tell you something.
Here's a few shots of the Kaase/Brechler entry this year...

John and Royce talking before the event...



The entry after it was loaded onto the dyno cart...



The infamous "Finger Port" intake with plexiglass plenum...



This was the first clue that something radical was going on in John's engine...



Tuesday was the day that John and Royce were both running, so I was pretty busy with either watching John run or helping Royce do some hookup work on his engine. Royce had planned to do an intake change from EFI to a single Dominator during the time he was allowed, which I think was 35 minutes, so we discussed what needed to be done and I familiarized myself with what I needed to do. I was pretty excited to do this, and I wanted to get it quick and get it right! Unfortunately, that left no time to grab pictures, but I did get some video from inside the dyno operators room and I had placed my GoPro inside the dyno cell to grab the action there.

Here's a shortened video of Royce's first 3 runs, which he did in quick succession. They also turned out to be his best scoring runs of the day. Not a big surprise though as heat kills power, and the engine heats up fairly quickly after every pull. The dyno operator forgot to load the dyno on the 3rd run. Luckily he quickly caught it before the engine spun to the moon! I don't like the dynos at UNOH, they don't have a very linear pull and you can hear many of the engines jumping up in RPM in increments instead of being smooth. It was like that last year, but even worse then.

https://youtu.be/TUiWdx8fJJU

John was adding up Royce's scoring as each pull was made. I'll tell ya, you can't buy days like this! I felt pretty lucky today!



This website isn't real friendly when I try to upload a bunch of pictures for some reason. So I'll finish there, then add some more if this posts ok. You'll want to see the heads on John's engine, so make sure and check back if they aren't here yet!

Ok, that seemed to post OK, so here's some of the shots of John's entry during and after teardown. He won the Vintage Class, and not by a close margin. Even though the Gene Adams Performance/Smithberg Racing Hemi and Royce's engines were both excellent engines with well thought out designs, John just lives on another planet when it comes to ideas and vision. I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves...









The rules stated that you couldn't raise the port roof. It also stated that you had to have a head gasket. The rules said NOTHING about raising the head, or using a head 'gasket' that was about 1 1/2" thick! I can't even begin to explain the work done on those heads, it was nothing short of amazing! With Mr. Kaase, you quickly learn that what the rules say isn't as important as what they DON'T say :o
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 10:33:17 PM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

thatdarncat

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 10:34:14 PM »
Cool stuff Doug, thanks for posting.
Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V

TomP

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 05:11:02 PM »
Wow, i'm in awe of his cleverness.

Lenz

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 05:59:57 AM »
Great post and photos Doug, thanks for taking the time to put it up.
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
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Royce

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 02:44:14 PM »
Wow, what a whirlwind experience!

First off thanks to Doug for taking time to help me prepare and run my Lincoln Y block..I could not have accomplished the manifold change without him..

Secondly to Jay for putting up with a non FE engine contaminating his dyno room.. For a guy use to testing 900 hp motors, squeezing 10 more horse out of a 500 hp motor could be pretty mundane. Plus he let me keep it hooked to the dyno for several weeks as I swapped out various parts and pieces.

Finally to Jon Kaase for allowing me into his orbit and partner on the winning engine.. There are not enough superlatives to describe this guy..

After I get my feet back under me from being road weary and wrung out from a week long adrenaline rush, I will post some dyno sheets and a short write up about some of the trials and tribulations and successes for EMC 2017.

I think Jay, given his superior writing skill, will handle some of the learnings and surprises we had in 3 sessions of dyno testing for the contest.  Thanks for the encouragement and kind words from the forum.

It seems FEs always falls between the cracks of the rules, holding them back from really showing their stuff.. Barry keeps at it, always bringing a good solid piece to represent the FE .. One of these days the rules will really click and the full potential can be shown
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

shady

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 03:08:05 PM »
very,very nice. thanks to all.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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57 lima bean

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 10:51:05 AM »
Thanks Doug for the photo's.Bringing the combustion chamber to the piston....Outstanding!!!
 
   

Stangman

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 04:46:14 PM »
Just out of curiosity would this engine be reliable in a car, let's say if you didn't beat the crap out of it.
And I mean the way the head is set up.

cjshaker

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 09:24:10 PM »
Joe, I think it depends on a couple things. It didn't have regular head gaskets, so I think eventually it would have leaked water. If steps were taken to insure a good seal that would hold up to lots of heat cycles, I'm sure it probably would have. I don't know for sure how the bronze would have held up though. It's a pretty tough metal in statues. I'd also guess that eventually the 'chambers' would seize inside the aluminum plates, making disassembly pretty difficult if not impossible. He used a 'jacking' system to get them released for tech inspection. The plates were threaded and he had threaded rod that went into the block deck, then double threaded inserts that went over the threaded rod and then threaded into the head. Then he'd turn the threaded rod inside the inserts and jack the head up, pulling the chambers out of the plates. It wasn't an easy process for him to do and it took a while. If it were to be driven on the street for any length of time, I can't imagine it getting any easier!
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 09:56:36 AM »
Did you guys talk about how much horsepower that setup gained over the conventional setup, I mean the thought going into it pretty ingenious.

cjshaker

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 11:16:06 AM »
Well, that was actually Royce's engine from last year, and he made 521 HP and 494 TQ with it, which is still pretty darned impressive. So that's a 240 HP gain, which is amazing by itself! There were a couple other changes, like the 460 crank and custom pistons, so I can't say for sure how much the heads alone were worth.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Stangman

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 11:55:52 AM »
Thanks Doug , probably a fairly good amount, a stroke and pistons arent 240 horse I mean for argument sakes maybe 100 HP for the head work. Either way a lot of thinking outside the box. He probably didn't color inside the lines as a kid either. Ha ha

Royce

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2017, 01:22:44 PM »
My engine last year was 420 inches.. It broke on the 3rd dyno pull so I never did get a real idea of what it would do... I had it set up with a Performer RPM manifold and a 1050 Dominator..  Jon ran it at his place as I had it set up except he put his tunnel ram on it.. It made in the low to mid 600s horsepower

In addition to the head work, Kaase added 4.15 stroke 460 crank to end up at 473 cubes.  Testing at his dyno with Q16 fuel he made a pull at 823 horse. With the spec fuel we ran and the fact he had to put more valve spring in it, the power dropped to 780 ish .

He thinks with a different cam and some tuning it will hit 900!  We will see....
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 292 Y block

1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car 
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1961 Starliner 390/375 clone
1965 GT40 tribute w/FE
1966 Falcon Pro Touring project
Kaase Boss 547. 840 HP 698 Torque  pump gas
1992 BMW V-12 5.0
2001 Lincoln 5.4 4 cam.
1968 Cougar XR7

Stangman

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2017, 01:44:21 PM »
Pretty potent Royce, impressive both ways yours and his

cjshaker

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2017, 06:55:54 PM »
My bad, Royce. I got your engines mixed up. I was looking at the pictures of your dyno run on the other engine.

EMC cam choice certainly isn't ideal for max numbers, so 900 would not surprise me. It would amaze me, but not surprise me  :)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

thatdarncat

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Re: Engine Masters Challenge pics and video...
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2017, 10:23:32 PM »
Here's a picture of a website page I saved 6 years ago ( and finally dug out ) showing some prototype Ford GT-40 heads with lowered combustion chambers, possibly the same or similar to the heads Jon Kaase mentioned in his interview seeing years ago at Dyno Don's shop. It was done for the same reason, better flow. I remember reading about these or similar years ago too, possibly in a Shelby club publication.

Kevin Rolph

1967 Cougar Drag Car ( under constuction )
1966 7 litre Galaxie
1966 Country Squire 390
1966 Cyclone GT 390
1968 Torino GT 390
1972 Gran Torino wagon
1978 Lincoln Mk V