Author Topic: New SOHC Heads from Robert Pond (Read 28130 times)

jayb · « **on:** June 11, 2012, 01:55:39 PM »

I spoke with Robert last week and also today, and he is nearly ready to sell his first SOHC head castings. The first four pair of heads have been machined and sent out to some key customers, including Keith Craft, who will be assembling one set of the heads and verifying the flow numbers. According to Robert the heads as delivered should flow over 400 cfm on the intake and 300 cfm on the exhaust at .650" valve lift. The heads feature CNC porting as delivered and a modern heart-shaped chamber that Robert said was 85cc. This means you can run a flat top piston on a stroker motor and still get over 10:1 compression.

Robert says retail price on the heads is $5250 for the pair, which seems like a bargain when compared to the competition, given the port flow numbers and the chamber. Robert has 20 pair of castings at his shop, and can have them machined and ready to deliver within a couple weeks. As far as I know, there is no advance deposit required to purchase these heads (LMAO!!!) Here are some photos I acquired today of these heads:

Ford428CJ · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2012, 02:11:24 PM »

Thank you Mr Pond!!! Those look very nice and well made.

machoneman · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2012, 02:24:48 PM »

Very cool Jay and a big thanks to Robert Pond. And no advance deposit, LMAO at that too.

Oh, and your companion post over on the old Forum....bound to stir the pot, I say!

jayb · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2012, 02:28:15 PM »

Well, I wasn't trying to stir the pot, just wanted to let everybody know about Robert's heads. After what I've been through I think the deposit thing is kind of funny

Qikbbstang · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2012, 03:29:47 PM »

Wow not only producing them but making them Bad-To-The-Bone as well with killer ports and chambers. With retail price on the heads is $5250 for the pair if one were to be fortunate enough to have a windfall land in their lap, can ALL the parts for a FE-SOHC be obtained w/o resorting to buying a piece here and there and needing to win auctions on eBay? ...............On the other side, it would be hard to figure anyone casting SOHC intake manifolds.

jayb · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2012, 03:46:08 PM »

Actually, Robert Pond already has front covers and intake manifolds available. The intakes are essentially duplicates of the Ford 2X4V SOHC dual plane intake, and sell for around $1500, and the front covers sell for around $850 if I recall correctly. Robert also has valve covers. You can get all the parts you need for an SOHC from a variety of sources; a good single source stop would be Doug Garifo at Precision Oil Pumps or Barry Rabotnick at Survival Motorsports.

GJCAT427 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2012, 04:22:38 PM »

Jay, Has he had these pressure checked? I see spots in the runners that look like sand pits. Maybe just dirt other wise very nice looking castings.

jayb · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2012, 06:14:48 PM »

I didn't specifically ask Robert that question, but I don't think he would release porous castings. He does a lot of standard FE head castings and as far as I know there aren't any porosity problems with Robert's parts. I can personally vouch for the quality of Robert's block and front cover castings.

e philpott · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2012, 06:19:57 PM »

will this be factory rocker ratio ??... if so will a high rocker ratio version be available later ??

jayb · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2012, 07:05:56 PM »

It's got to be for the factory rocker ratio, because there isn't a high ratio rocker available. At least not until I build one LOL!

WConley · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2012, 09:49:57 PM »

I'm in love!

Those sure are beautiful pieces. The flow numbers look bad-to-the-bone too!

- Bill

Qikbbstang · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2012, 11:25:01 PM »

I always thought you could get just so much in the bucket. So how does one alter ratios on a OHC engine when one end of the rocker rolls on the cam (a rather fixed position camshaft in the head) and the other end of the rocker must kiss the valve tips precisely. Rocker ratio changing is not all that complex where you have a pushrod but .........

Bart · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2012, 05:03:11 AM »

They are great looking pieces and can't wait to see a pair in the flesh.
Do any of you guys know what is the best way to order a set of these heads?
Thanks fo your help.

ScotiaFE · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2012, 07:18:23 AM »

Give him a call.

http://www.robertpondmotorsports.com/index.htm

babybolt · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2012, 12:24:24 PM »

Billet aluminum caps, the way it is supposed to be. If Ford had billet aluminum back in the day before CNC, they would have used it instead of cast iron or ductile caps.

The "easy" way to change the rocker ratio in a SOHC would be to use a smaller diameter rocker shaft, possible on stock head with offset bushings.

Just wondering if anyone has gone to the Flathead/351W firing order yet on the SOHC camshafts?

hafadowg · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2012, 12:29:31 PM »

The price u quoted is for bare heads?If so,how much to fill w/ valves,springs,rockers,etc?

mark

jayb · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2012, 12:48:03 PM »

The lightweight valves from Ferrea for the SOHC run about $600 for the set. T&D rocker arms, shafts, and spring clips run another $2000. Finish off with your choice of springs, titanium retainers, shims, seals, and locks, and that will add another $800 or so to the total.

jayb · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2012, 12:53:05 PM »

Quote from: babybolt on June 12, 2012, 12:24:24 PM

Billet aluminum caps, the way it is supposed to be. If Ford had billet aluminum back in the day before CNC, they would have used it instead of cast iron or ductile caps.

The "easy" way to change the rocker ratio in a SOHC would be to use a smaller diameter rocker shaft, possible on stock head with offset bushings.

Just wondering if anyone has gone to the Flathead/351W firing order yet on the SOHC camshafts?

I looked at doing that a while back, but it requires a pretty expensive cam blank to start with (~$1000 per pair), and then you have to pay for extensive grinding (probably another $1000 per pair). The billet cams from Comp are available now for around $850 a pair ready to run, so going to the better firing order would be an expensive horsepower-per-dollar proposition.

e philpott · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2012, 09:40:55 PM »

on a street type build with the smaller cams .... how much valve relief would be needed with flat tops on the 86cc chamber ??... would you be able to use regular FE flat tops or would you still be stuck with custom pistons with the small cams ??

jayb · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2012, 10:00:02 PM »

You would definitely need custom pistons; the edge of the valves on the SOHC are very close to the edge of the chamber. No way you could get by without the proper valve reliefs.

e philpott · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:28:55 PM »

the chamber on Ponds cammer looks real simular to the new TM Enterprises Boss 429 head they had at Columbus meet a couple months ago , short of having them side by side ..... what are the chamber CC's in a stock SOHC for comparison ??

jayb · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:16:21 AM »

Stock SOHC chamber size is 120cc, so getting down to 85cc is a pretty big improvement. Just as a for instance, on my 519" SOHC the piston dome volume is 39cc, so going to Pond's chamber would allow me to reduce to a 4cc dome and maintain the same compression ratio. The result would be a lighter piston and a huge improvement in combustion efficiency. I've seen estimates where a heart shaped chamber is good for up to 80 HP over a hemi chamber in a race application, due to quench and better combustion efficiency, so there is a bunch of power to be had from the Pond heads over a stock type hemi chamber.

WConley · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:33:01 AM »

Agreed! The burn should speed up a whole lot, and turbulence will be much improved. This will be a very neat case study for the benefits of chamber design. It will probably want a different timing curve, and I imagine it will need a bit less octane for a given C/R.

jayb · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2012, 11:47:59 AM »

I'm already thinking about the back to back tests on the dyno, Bill. I'll get the Pond heads ported to flow the same as the heads I've got, and then just swap heads and pistons, with all else being equal including compression ratio. Should be an eye opening test...

WConley · « **Reply #24 on:** June 14, 2012, 02:46:51 PM »

After the test, do you need the old junk hauled away?

jayb · « **Reply #25 on:** June 14, 2012, 03:05:39 PM »

I'll bet you'd come all the way from California to do it, too...

By the way, did you see on the FE Forum where Roger Gordon referred to the T&D rockers as the "William Conley / Bill Coon rockers"? Maybe you can get a free set of those too, as long as your name is on them LOL!

machoneman · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2012, 03:43:29 PM »

I saw that post from Roger and that wasn't even the dumbest thing he stated in that series of back and forth comments. What a maroon....LOL!

Btw, Hasty may be on to something where a slew of LS heads were mis-cast and unlike most heads of course, the total count of saleable pairs went down a ton.

Caveat emptor!

WConley · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:29:35 PM »

Yeah I did the design and stress analysis for the T&D lightweight cammer rockers. It was a gift to the hobby. Perhaps Brad at T&D will cut me some slack on a set

Actually I will be getting a set of those when the time is right.

- Bill

jayb · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:55:44 PM »

Actually, they ought to give you a free set, especially in light of the tests you did on the original ones with all the fancy camera work...

WConley · « **Reply #29 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:12:04 PM »

I'm friends with Larry Torres' dentist- the SOHC guy I've mentioned to you. Maybe we can conspire to get a couple of free sets when Larry's got the gas mask on!

Barry_R · « **Reply #30 on:** June 21, 2012, 09:01:46 AM »

Don't know guys.
I conceived the original "double roller" T&D rocker design for the SOHC.
Had them made by T&D - took more than a little "push" to convince them to try it.
Then I sent a rocker to Bill C for testing (Thanks by the way - really helped my confidence on the concept).
I know Larry Torres himself.
And I don't get any free rockers....

I've just gotten used to others taking full personal credit for ideas, industry contacts, and concepts that I either came up with or had significant input on. They can claim everything that's in my mirrors - they cannot take what's coming up through the windshield...

feadam · « **Reply #31 on:** August 11, 2012, 02:17:19 PM »

Jay any new news on pond sohc heads

jayb · « **Reply #32 on:** August 11, 2012, 05:20:17 PM »

Nope, I haven't got a set yet; I've been buried in Drag Week preparations and haven't been keeping up to date with what is happening there. I'll post something as soon as I have some more information available - Jay

Bart · « **Reply #33 on:** September 18, 2012, 02:03:17 AM »

Well I just thought I would let everyone know that Robert Pond has his SOHC heads listed on his website. From looking at the pictures on his website it looks like the heads have done away with the heart shaped chamber and returned to the original style combustion chamber. Does anybody have anymore info on the latest version of his heads?

Here is a link to his webpage: http://www.robertpondmotorsports.com/Ford-sohc-cylinder-head.htm

Thanks in advance for any response.

jayb · « **Reply #34 on:** September 18, 2012, 06:23:00 PM »

I think he went back to the standard chamber for a couple of reasons. One was the availability of pistons; with a custom chamber a non-standard piston would be required, so that would make the engine build a little more difficult and probably more expensive. Also, Robert's chamber was so small (85cc) that it degraded the flow numbers for the head. Of course I think it was flowed with the Ferrea valves, which didn't help any.

I'm hoping to get a set of Robert's heads in partially machined condition in the next couple of months, and machine a chamber into them that is around 95-100 cc. I've done some R&D work on an SOHC head with a chamber like that, and flow really didn't drop off much. This would save 20-25 cc of chamber volume and make for a better chamber and a lighter piston.

fe66comet · « **Reply #35 on:** May 23, 2013, 05:49:54 PM »

HOLY greenbacks BAT MAN, that is about two thirds of what I have in my whole stroker including intake and carburetors, guess if i want a SOHC for my comet some stuff gets sold LOL...Jon

cdmbill2 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2013, 12:40:30 AM »

I look at those heads and think that both the intake and exhaust flange e.g. port height could be rasied substantially without getting into anything important in the casting and the flow across the board could be dramatically better. I gather these are made to match the original almost 50 year old locations, but seeing as how people are making sheet metal intakes, originals are unobtainium and that there are no factory installed situations, why not? With dedicated double roller rockers the cam location could be altered to get ratios up to where they need to be with original spec cam blanks and the fun could really start. I suspect I'm missing a bunch of details like the impact on the chain drive but a guy can dream right?

jayb · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2013, 11:44:36 AM »

Raised ports are definitely the way to go, and if I ever get some time and CNC port a set of Pond's heads I will be raising the intake port as much as possible. There is a limit, because you start to impinge on the spring seat if you go up more than a half inch or so. On the exhaust side, there is a water jacket passage running right over the port, so you can't go too far there either. Nevertheless the advantages are there; I have two sets of heads that were specially cast with raised ports from a different manufacturer, and they flow about 10% better than the stockers with the same valves and equivalent porting efforts.

fe66comet · « **Reply #38 on:** June 20, 2013, 11:04:36 PM »

I saw, an article recently describing the heads. They sound interesting for sure. Not to sound non FE but there is the bang for the buck issue. Seems that even the most exotic FE engine blocks can only handle under 1000 HP. No offence just sayin ya know.....Jon

jayb · « **Reply #39 on:** June 21, 2013, 08:43:59 AM »

Actually, I'm pretty sure the Shelby and Pond FE blocks will handle 2000 HP. I've run 1200 HP with the Shelby block, with a blower and nitrous, and had no issues at all with the block.

fe66comet · « **Reply #40 on:** June 22, 2013, 12:30:57 PM »

I get a lot of conflicting info on blocks, some a ford 428 block will handle 1500 others say 700. I have heard Shelby blocks fail is used for endurance applications others say they will hold 8000 RPM all day long. I wish there was a standard to which they could all be rated by. I am considering a Genesis block with the Pond heads but not sure if it would handle big numbers. I prefer iron over aluminum as it is more durable and forgiving. I am thinking 800 HP but then again I surely could achieve that with a good set of aftermarket CJ Heads. I imagine most HP limits stated at the lower numbers are based on production blocks and higher numbers are either filled or aftermarket that are also filled but either way I want something street friendly and filled blocks do not meet that criteria. But I am not looking for 5 second quarters either, maybe mid to lower eights would be about it. Also as I have said before my line of thinking will be for a road racer but a higher red line would be nice to get the juices flowing....Jon

jayb · « **Reply #41 on:** June 22, 2013, 01:57:50 PM »

Hmmmm, no way a stock 428 block will handle 1500 horsepower. My general rules of thumb go like this: A stock 2 bolt main FE block is good for 600 HP, but will eventually fatigue and fail in a drag race application with slicks and a stick or trans-brake. In a street application a 2 bolt block will run forever at the 600 HP level. A 4 bolt main block, including an original 2 bolt block that has been upgraded to 4 bolt mains, is good for 800+ HP, including drag applications. And I think any of the aftermarket blocks, with the exception of the early Genesis blocks that had the cast iron main caps, are good for 1000+ HP. The aftermarket blocks are thicker and beefier in all the critical areas.

Rules of thumb being what they are, take mine with a grain of salt...

fe66comet · « **Reply #42 on:** June 22, 2013, 10:33:08 PM »

Sounds logical to me, I did not know however a 390 block could be modified to that degree. If I had I would have done it to begin with. Things become clearer in retrospect. I will start with a better block next time for more cubes and probably either use the Pond heads or the felony. I am for all purposes basing everything on a 800 HP platform..... Jon

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Author Topic: New SOHC Heads from Robert Pond (Read 28130 times)

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