Author Topic: CVR Pump Lesson Learned  (Read 9808 times)

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mbrunson427

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CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« on: July 16, 2017, 07:43:53 PM »
I installed a CVR pump last week, with Jays adapters. I also installed an "old Air" electric fan setup and a larger capacity alternator. Yesterday I filled water and backed the car out to try it. No leaks, everything was fine so I took it around the block and got it warm. When I got back to the house I parked it in the driveway to idle for a bit to make sure it could handle itself. It cooled perfectly and I was real happy.

Just after I shut the car off, we were standing around BS-ing about how great it worked etc etc....it started leaking. Took a while to figure out where from, but it was coming from the seal between the motor and the housing on the water pump (CVR's problem). I did a google search to figure out if it's a common problem and the first search result I found was from FEPower.net! Turns out someone on here has had the same problem in the past.

I'm going to call CVR in the morning and try to get them to warranty me a motor gasket. Save yourself some headache and pull the pump apart and seal it prior to using one.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

jayb

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 07:01:01 AM »
Thanks for the heads-up on this issue.  Just for your information, though, you can't just take those four screws out of the front side of the pump and take it apart.  I've tried that, but it won't come apart that way.  Back during Drag Week in 2015 I tried to take mine apart (thought the pump had stopped working, but it turned out to be an electrical issue).  Removed those four screws and the pump still wouldn't come apart.  I'm not sure what else has to be done to get it apart; maybe CVR will be able to tell you...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 10:17:46 AM »
I emailed them this morning. I asked them to send me detailed instructions on how to fix it and to send me any materials necessary. I'll post up their reply.

Has me wondering if you take off the front plate and then get at the motor screws from the back side.

It's leaking from between the black motor and the aluminum.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 10:36:35 AM »
Again, why I CRINGE every time I see an electric water pump like those.

I hope they take care of you.
Larry

cjshaker

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 01:24:35 PM »
How long ago did you buy the pump? Just curious because I JUST bought one, but it probably won't be used for about a year. I'll be interested to see if CVR takes care of the issue, without a hassle. Guess maybe I need to try mine and make sure it'll work when the time comes. I ass-u-me(d) the pump came apart easily and that there was a simple replaceable seal behind there. How stupid of me ::)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 05:13:15 PM »
Update: I've called and talked to the secretary lady twice today, trying to get to some sort of deeper technical assistance or manager but haven't been able to connect with anyone, I've only been able to sit on hold with her while she talks to the people and relays the message. Currently they want me to take the whole unit back off and ship it to them so they can inspect it and make sure I haven't caused damage to the pump, and then they'll decide what they can do to take care of me.  Or, if I really need to use the car, they see no problem in having a slight leak to get me through the summer, or until the pump completely fails (their words not mine). They are based out of Canada so the secretary wanted my social security number so she could set up return shipping. No.

My first call in I was only simply asking for a new gasket and instructions on how to replace the gasket. From how she responded, it got me worried that the water that is leaking is actually infiltrating the motor case.

I shut it down for the day because every transfer phone call she tried didn't go through, I'm going to call back in tomorrow. See if I can't talk to someone who can do something about it.

Nothing too frustrating yet. The solution I'd like to arrive at is them sending me a new motor and front plate assembly.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2017, 05:15:50 PM »
How long ago did you buy the pump? Just curious because I JUST bought one, but it probably won't be used for about a year. I'll be interested to see if CVR takes care of the issue, without a hassle. Guess maybe I need to try mine and make sure it'll work when the time comes. I ass-u-me(d) the pump came apart easily and that there was a simple replaceable seal behind there. How stupid of me ::)

Bought this in the middle of last month. I also assume its a seal behind there. I'd typically just take it apart and look at it, but I want to leave it alone for now so I don't mess up some sort of warranty claim.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2017, 05:38:11 PM »
By the way, here's some install pictures......rather than just the bad news!

Jays adapters worked out great!




I had help:










Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

jayb

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2017, 05:42:21 PM »
Sorry to see you are not getting great response from CVR.  This afternoon I decided to do a little more investigating on this, since the only time I'd ever tried to take the pump apart was on the side of the road during Drag Week in 2015.  I have a new pump here on the shelf so I took a look this afternoon.  First, there are four screws holding the electric motor in place.  I took those out and started pulling the case off the motor, but I only had to pull it apart 1/8" or so to see that I was into disassembly of the motor windings and brushes and so forth with this approach, so I just put it back together.  Then there are four screws that look like they would crack the case in half and expose the gasket.  These are the four screws I was talking about in my earlier post.  Just on the off chance that the pump I already tried this on was stuck or something, I took those four screws out, but nothing came apart.

I thought that maybe it wouldn't come apart because the case halves were pressed together, or else that the impeller was on the other side of the case, and keeping it from being pulled apart.  I looked through the inlet fitting opening and after rotating the impeller a couple times I saw a set screw in there.  It would have been really difficult to get at, though, and it appeared that it was held in place by Loctite, so I didn't even try to unscrew it.

While I was mulling this over, it finally dawned on me that maybe the screws that held the motor together also went into the other side of the aluminum case (Duh - slaps forehead...).  Sure enough, two of the four motor screws were longer, and hold the motor to both sides of the aluminum case.  Here's a couple of pictures of the case, which came right apart when I pulled those two motor screws.  Also a picture of the impeller side, showing the set screw, which would now be easily accessible:








My guess is that there is a shaft seal behind that impeller, and that is what is leaking on Mike's pump.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cjshaker

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 08:24:22 PM »
Or a simple sealed bearing since that acts as the front of the motor case.

Now we know the meaning of "No User Serviceable Parts Inside" ::)
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

fekbmax

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 08:39:39 PM »
I'm liking the shop Dog Brunson. I have a couple shop cats, most of the time there as dirty as i am and into everything. Grinder's, welding, open headers, hardly anything fazes them. Strange though, the shop vac gets um every time. LoL. Of course they come right back soon as i shut it off.
I love cats and dogs, all animals really. Nothing better than patting a dog or rubbing its belly or have a loyal cat jump in your lap after a hard day. At least for a moment it makes things seem better. Least for me..
Keith.  KB MAX Racing.

Heo

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2017, 02:36:23 AM »
Oh my thats a beautyful Cougar you got there like it a lot



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

Falcon67

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2017, 08:46:32 AM »
FWIW - I have a ProForm pump on the 302, been great for the last 3 years.  No issues at all.  I had one on the shelf as a backup and I sued it on the dragster 351C build.  It leaked from the get-go.  Same place, looked like out of the motor.  Bummer.  I did learn on the other pump that it's a good idea to separate the casting from the motor on a new ProForm and spray the gasket with High Tack, or other sealer.  But that didn't help the backup unit.  Not a lot of love in some places for CVR so I went with Meziere.  Expensive but hasn't missed a lick.  Bolt on and go. 

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2017, 09:28:48 AM »
Thanks for looking into that Jay! I appreciate it.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2017, 09:29:25 AM »
Oh my thats a beautyful Cougar you got there like it a lot

Thank you!
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

turbohunter

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2017, 09:46:58 AM »
Cars and dogs,,,,,, my favorite things.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
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mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2017, 10:20:42 PM »
Great News! I heard from CVR tonight, they're sending me a new front assembly. I'll have to take off the front 6 bolts like Jay showed above and replace everything from there forward.

She said "we'll be sending a new one out to you".
Or in Canadian, "we'll be sending a new one oot to you"
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

jayb

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2017, 09:27:58 AM »
Great to see that they are standing behind their product.  Did they ask you to return the defective one?  I wonder with the international shipping costs if that is economically feasible for them...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cjshaker

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2017, 09:29:14 AM »
I thought the leak was between the housing and the motor? Replacing the front pump cover won't fix that, unless I'm mistaken where the leak was at. I'm glad to see that CVR is at least stepping up to try and fix the problem though.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2017, 09:35:18 AM »
If the leak IS between the motor and the housing, and they send you an entire housing to replace, after Jay mentioned that the pump housing is the front plate to the motor, I think you'll need to be VERY careful about not pulling the armature out, dropping the brushes out. If that happens, I'd think you'll have a HELL of a time getting it back together.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

jayb

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2017, 09:37:43 AM »
Only two of the four screws that hold the motor to the front aluminum plate go into the rest of the pump.  The other two screws can stay tight, and they will hold the motor together.

If they send the motor together with the front plate, that will include the seal or sealed bearing that is leaking, so that should fix the problem.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2017, 10:09:52 AM »
https://www.cvrproducts.com/2014/product/proflo-extreme-motor-and-top-plate-clear/

This is what they're sending. We decided not to mess around with shipping the other one back because it's a total pain. They decided to trust me on it.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com

jayb

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2017, 12:34:14 PM »
Thanks for that link, Mike, I see they have a repair kit in case that seal goes out.  Handy...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Russ67Scode

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 02:57:17 AM »
Does the CVR pump stick further forward than the stock water pump ? And what pulley is that on the crank ? I need a single groove pulley and I have that same balancer
Thanks Russ
BP 520 ci BBM Twin turbo FAST EFI

jayb

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 09:57:41 AM »
The CVR pump plus my adapters is about 1/8" shorter than the stock water pump.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Falcon67

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2017, 12:12:09 PM »
Great News! I heard from CVR tonight, they're sending me a new front assembly. I'll have to take off the front 6 bolts like Jay showed above and replace everything from there forward.

She said "we'll be sending a new one out to you".
Or in Canadian, "we'll be sending a new one oot to you"

That's great news, eh?  ;)

cjshaker

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2017, 01:10:10 PM »
Great news, and kudos to CVR for good customer service. I guess "assembly" means just that, the whole thing! And nice to see that 'kit', so a person doesn't have to buy the whole pump assembly just to have a spare. Thanks for that link.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

MeanMofakee

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2017, 03:43:39 PM »
Anybody else have any issues with the CVR water pumps? I'm getting ready to get the pump and adapters for my project. If this is the only one that has caused a problem, sounds like they are a pretty dependable unit!

mbrunson427

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Re: CVR Pump Lesson Learned
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 04:04:16 PM »
CVR sent out the whole new motor unit and front plate. I got that installed about a month ago. No problems since. I don't think I'd hesitate to buy another one, mine was probably a fluke deal.
Mike Brunson
BrunsonPerformance.com