Old amps and receivers. Just like hot rods?

[FElony]

... the speakers were rescued from a dumpster.

So that was YOU! I was having a nice snooze on those speakers when you pushed me aside to swipe them. You're lucky the smell of rotten cabbage in my face isn't enough to wake me, or I would have delivered a sound thrashing upon your disrespectful self. Don't you know a man's home is his castle? shady, indeed.

Anyway, my dad was heavily into tube gear and had lots of them still in their boxes back in the 80's stashed in his garage. I moved to AZ in '91. He passed away in '98. When I went back to CA to help his clueless 2nd wife with funeral arrangements and such, I emptied the garage of old stuff he had that pre-dated his marriage to her. The tube stuff was all gone. I presume that, since he had embraced "modern" technology like the Carver Sonic Holography pre-amp and related, that tubes had become disposable.

So, I came back with lots of Carver gear, including two 100w RMS per amps still sealed in their boxes, several Harmon Kardon pieces, two Thorens turntables and a Yamaha automatic, and various other goods. So, nothing nifty and classic like you guys have.

As a tangent, I was in the forefront of the car audio business in the 80's when CD's first hit the market. I remember distinctly the almost instant creation of opposing camps, one which trumpeted sonic accuracy and one which embraced the oft-used "warmth" adjective. Ah, the Digital vs. Analog Wars. Over the next few years, I bought many of my favorite vinyl albums in CD format and decided that Digital did reveal more instrumental and vocal nuances as well as providing a more robust presence at both ends of the frequency spectrum.

So, was there an influence for this in the quagmire that passes for my brain? Well, when I was in 7th grade (1968) I had a music teacher name Mrs. McDonald, a corpulent yet animated woman whose son was a chopper gunner in the Nam, a fact she reminded us of daily with much hand-wringing and brow-wiping. (Understandable, of course). One day she brought in a record for us to listen to, a revolutionary new release called "Switched-On Bach", where his classic songs were performed by someone incorporating a Moog Synthesizer. As someone with a notable collection of classic vinyl pressings, she would wax poetic about the detail and accuracy of this recording compared to prior orchestral efforts.

Although I did not have a firm opinion on the matter, the seed she planted may have stuck with me for years. Hard to say how things like that work. My father, likewise, had a considerable collection of classic and opera recordings, many of which were breakable media created as far back as the 40's. I was raised hearing this music delivered through H-K Citation Series hardware. He was nice enough to suffer through playing my stuff, starting with "Beatles '65", my first album.

True to his new-tech nature, Dad did make the move to CD's eventually. When he passed I donated most of the CD's to his opera club, and kept the records. Still have them.

Sorry to have derailed this thread. Please resume your totally tubular discussion.

[Heo]

Hmmm Not completely related but in the 80s i had this
really strange guy that turned up in my shop that wanted
me to cast a bronze disc for him and wondered if i know
of any lathe for sale.  Anyway the specs  on the casting
was.....lets say aerospace specs so i turned him down.
But curious as i am i asked what it was for...two hours
later he was finished  explaining the stereo he was going to
build. With bronze turntable, granite housing to dampen
all vibrations and some ultra high tech electronics
and good knows what. That would give the
cleanest sound with no interference that would be a sales success
He started to turn up a couple of times a month and talked about his stereo he
was  building and continued for a few years describing in detail
tubes versus transistors versus this and that... And what cars he was going to buy
when this stereo hit the market. then the CD came out
I haven't heard of him since that, May be he just bought a CD
Player or is still building on his ultra perfect stereo

[Barry_R]

Figured I could add some pictures of my old stuff...more akin to FElony than Doug

I don't care much about sound quality - damn near deaf anyhow - but I still like loud!

[cjshaker]

Figured I could add some pictures of my old stuff...more akin to FElony than Doug

I don't care much about sound quality - damn near deaf anyhow - but I still like loud!

Actually, Barry, that Toshiba is something I would consider almost ideal for pure listening pleasure. Like I said before, you just can't beat that '70s stuff. I've had a couple of near identical Toshibas. I'd still be using it except a channel went out on my last one, and I never bothered to fix it. Lots of good stuff made in those years! Speakers may have progressed, but the only thing desirable about digital radios is being able to lock onto a stations frequency.

Felony, I've bounced back and forth over the digital vs analog debate. I've settled on the notion that, as far as input signals, digital really can't be beat. Tape has its issues (mostly hiss), records sound great the first few times you play them, but digital is clear and consistent. Where I deviate from the new is in the amplification. I prefer a high end tube amplifier, but the older transistor types are really fine as well. That's all concerning home use, but in a car, digital adds clarity in a world full of ambient noises that muddys the sound. CD and MP3 is really the way to go, there. At least in my opinion.

[FElony]

There's another factor, Doug. The 80's saw a big upsurge in using synthesizers to make rapid percussion and bass transients for fast-beat dance music. Along came the new Class AB car amp, which was designed to control speaker cone movement accurately in both directions. This is a feat that I personally think tube amps fall short of.

My first CD was given to me by a stereo shop owner who had a bunch of promos sent to him. He didn't know the artist and neither did I. I didn't even have a player yet. I eventually bought one for the house, and boy was I in for a surprise. It had this track on it:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxBd2tGC44s  which I played through these speakers  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCmc84ZR9_k   It eventually became a huge hit in the dance club scene (and yes I was there. Often). It was instrumental (pun) in the decision to add car stereo to my bag of tricks, as was until that point an alarm specialist.

The subwoofer "revolution" got followed by an increase in the quality and durability of car  tweeters. Suddenly front staging became a thing, and my attention to this helped sales to the over-30 crowd, which was my chosen demographic (I refused to do business with the thump-thump kids). All I had to do was sit the customer in my demo car and play something like this, and the deal was done:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiFiagAgQV8&list=PLMX7UAzj7-dEBP4EL16L7kGgd7ceeCLFd  (If you have time, listen to Bahkti Point, also from Burmer).

I could probably write a hundred posts about my experience in that era. Much like the points vs iggy modules, I had my own ideas that separated me from the herd. Now, all I can do is just moo.

[e philpott]

I like my Mesa Boogies best for amplification and sold my Vintage Fender amps , I agree about tubes verses Modlers , modlers along with Full Range Flat Response speakers have stepped the game up , Kemper and Axe Fx are pretty darn good/close to the originals, Line 6 Helix is right there with Kemper or Axe FX but I'll take my 3 channel Dual Recto with a Strymon Blue Sky any day over them

[cjshaker]

Man, I've really got to get off this thread! Watching some of those speaker videos makes me want to get back into the "stereo" thing. Something I've set aside for quite a while to concentrate on other hobbies.

Felony, you're right about the AB amps, but I'll say proudly that I never got into the 'dance music' craze   And super crisp bass isn't really a requirement in my music tastes. I do like clarity though, and that's tough to do in a car environment. At the risk of sounding like one of those "thumpers", I've got twin 12" Boston subs in my GT, along with half a dozen Infinity cab speakers. Not for shear loudness, which it's capable of, but extreme clarity to overcome ambient noise. When (quadraphonic/surround sound) 4+ channel stereo systems came out, things got really interesting for home stereos, and eventually car systems, but in my opinion, it's something that still hasn't been realized to it's potential.

Probably the dumbest thing I've ever done is put a stereo in my Mach 1. I've never turned it on once, but the music is still loud and clear

[FElony]

... I've got twin 12" Boston subs in my GT, along with half a dozen Infinity cab speakers. Not for shear loudness, which it's capable of, but extreme clarity to overcome ambient noise.

If you really want clarity, consider four 8-inch subs in a sealed box that would be smaller than what you may have now. It is my opinion that 10's and bigger have no business being in a passenger car, as the length of the frequencies they are more efficient at exceeds the length of the interior. Ever notice cars with "more" bass sound outside the car than inside?

I made a lot of money moving people away from the ubiquitous twin-12's that my competitors were pushing. The tech and related stories would take far more typing than I want to do, but I'll leave you with one.

Back then, Yamaha decided to enter the car stereo market. They invited me and others to a demo and seminar at the Queen Mary down in Long Beach, CA. The event was for both home and car businesses. The room was fairly large, and they had one of their home rigs playing. The low end percussion and bass was phenomenal in all ways. After we had been seated, the rep asked us to point to the subwoofer. We pointed to the speakers flanking the table. He pulled off the front covers to reveal that the speakers had, in fact, no subs loaded in them. Then he walked over to some rectangular module mounted on the wall, about 3-inches thick or so, that I would have guessed had something to do with the HVAC system on the ship. Lo and behold, he pulled the cover off that to uncover an array of twenty-four 4-inch drivers! That was the phenomenal sub. Another Yamaha guy proceeded to explain the science behind that piece, and all that stuck in my head.

Once in a while I put a single 10 in the back of a long vehicle like a van or Suburban, but for the most part it was 8's or 6.5 subs in certain enclosures with certain amps, always with 4-ohm loads. If you look around, some companies now make actual 4 and 5-inch car subs. 'Bout time. More drivers, more voice coils, faster cone response, more accurate bass and sub harmonics.

I've been out of the loop for several years now. Looking at YT vids to see what's what, I am appalled at the number of so-called stereo gurus that continue to jack around with huge subs driven at one or one-half ohm loads. They post vids that sound like shit and high-five each other over it, and the clubies in the comments section eat it up like Sugar Flakes with extra sugar on top. I am actually embarrassed over the whole ordeal.

Anyway, I'm looking at designing a system for my Crown Vic, but I have to get up to speed on current hardware. Vics have the gas tank upright behind the rear seat, so there will be some trickery involved. Or, I may just sacrifice the back seat, as I don't really need it.

Brainflash! Should I mount an old tube amp in a plexi enclosure in the trunk and claim that it's powering everything? How many people can I drive to Insanity Street with that? Tee hee hee?

Here's one of our old test tracks. If you don't have a sub attached to your computer you may not hear the low riffs.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxMKE2xKZQg

[BattlestarGalactic]

I inherited my father's Fisher stereo system.  It was tubes and lots of very heavy transformers!!!  Turn it on, wait a minute and everything would warm up and sounded awesome.  I sold it on ebay about 15 yrs ago as I really didn't have any place to put it.  I should have kept it?

A friend of mine was in the service back in the 80's.  He was in Germany and bought this system(trying to recall name).  It had 4 speakers the size of lazyboy chairs.  You couldn't turn it up past 4-5 without plugging your ears.  It was deafening.  Klipsh? Something like that was on the speakers.  I can't have anything stupid like that in the house with my bird.  Don't think he would appreciate something that loud?  At least he would be jealous if something could make more noise them him!!!

[e philpott]

Larry , they was probably Klipsh(spelling?) K Horns .... you guy's are really testing the memory bank , I had a Pioneer SX550 mid late 1976 , I like the old stuff too .... I have a pretty good tube assortment too

[turbohunter]

The good news is Larry if you decide to replace the Fisher, for some reason Fisher prices have not gone whacky like Marantz, Pioneer, and a few others.

[cjshaker]

Klipsch. They used to make awesome stuff. But I don't know what their stuff is like now.

Tube equipment is really nice, provided you can work on it or know someone who can when the time comes. If not, things can get expensive very quickly. And there are NOT very many people who know how or are willing to work on the stuff now. Like most things from the past, including our FE's, it's becoming a lost art. I used to know quite a few guys, all about my Dads age, that were pretty keen about working on this stuff. Now? I couldn't name anyone local who even has a clue.

I think the single best car stereo I ever heard was about 35 years ago. It was a typical Supertuner I receiver/player with a Bose speaker system that had a dedicated amp package. Only 4 4" speakers, but that thing sounded amazing. But that was when cars had real trunks, and that made a huge difference.

[shady]

When I started out as a tech in the early '70s, most everything still had tubes. As the then old-timers died off I would buy their equipment & tube stock, so I have a bunch but, a lot of the audio stuff I used up & man, has it become pricey on ebay. Trouble-shooting is almost impossible to learn from a book, it is an acquired skill learned thru practical experience. It's a shame it will go to the grave with me.

[cjshaker]

Shady, luckily, there are still some dedicated people who are into this stuff. I belong to a couple Marshall and custom amp forums, mostly based on custom builds and replicas (because the originals are worth so much darn money now), and those guys are passionate about tube amps. It's pretty amazing what some guys come up with and the amount of information and advice that is freely given just to help other tube aficionados. Same goes for the vintage radio crowd. Still, the days of going to your local repair shop are long gone. And you're right, if you think FE parts are expensive, the price of 3 or 4 well branded NOS vintage EL34 tubes could buy you a mighty nice intake. Throw in a few pre-amp tubes and you could buy a nice stroker kit

[FElony]

Seems to me that there would be some tube manufacturing equipment still floating around out there, or perhaps new/improved such could be easily made. Why do you think that nobody has gone into the repro tube market? If there is a dedicated following, it would seem to be a possibility. I mean, look at all the new parts for Flatheads these days...