Industrial 427 Blocks

[wayne]

I think i seen one in a pea stoner that puts the stones on the road the county road comm had it it had so much tar on it it was hard to see but  it had cross bolts .

[mike7570]

Mike, the picture of the block you posted showing the deck appears to have the 390 water jackets, not the 428 water jackets.  See the drawings posted below, courtesy of my friend Kevin (thatdarncat).  The water jacket opening in the deck, shown in the picture, extends down below the head bolt hole on the 428, but not on the 390.  Are you sure the block you have is a 428 block, and not an overbored 390 block?  I have never seen a 428 block with those water jacket holes on the deck...

I now believe it's a 391 FT block that was cross bolted (does it have the same water jackets as a 390?) currently has a 4.16 bore.  A 13/64 drill bit was the largest that would fit so I guess it leaves the cylinder walls about .133 ?
Okay I guess if I hard block it. I think I'm going to wait on the new BBM 428 iron blocks and heard they might be available soon.

[Gregwill16]

Something to add to the discussion on the water jackets, I just looked at one of the 105 blocks and it has the 428 style that drops below the head bolt.

[wsu0702]

Something to add to the discussion on the water jackets, I just looked at one of the 105 blocks and it has the 428 style that drops below the head bolt.

Yes the tall versus short water jacket passage block ID method only works for DIF blocks cast from '66 and up.  The 406 blocks have the short passages even though they are 4.13" bore. 

[wsu0702]

Mike, the picture of the block you posted showing the deck appears to have the 390 water jackets, not the 428 water jackets.  See the drawings posted below, courtesy of my friend Kevin (thatdarncat).  The water jacket opening in the deck, shown in the picture, extends down below the head bolt hole on the 428, but not on the 390.  Are you sure the block you have is a 428 block, and not an overbored 390 block?  I have never seen a 428 block with those water jacket holes on the deck...

I now believe it's a 391 FT block that was cross bolted (does it have the same water jackets as a 390?) currently has a 4.16 bore.  A 13/64 drill bit was the largest that would fit so I guess it leaves the cylinder walls about .133 ?
Okay I guess if I hard block it. I think I'm going to wait on the new BBM 428 iron blocks and heard they might be available soon.

Mike what is the casting date of your block?

[wsu0702]

Mike, the picture of the block you posted showing the deck appears to have the 390 water jackets, not the 428 water jackets.  See the drawings posted below, courtesy of my friend Kevin (thatdarncat).  The water jacket opening in the deck, shown in the picture, extends down below the head bolt hole on the 428, but not on the 390.  Are you sure the block you have is a 428 block, and not an overbored 390 block?  I have never seen a 428 block with those water jacket holes on the deck...

I now believe it's a 391 FT block that was cross bolted (does it have the same water jackets as a 390?) currently has a 4.16 bore.  A 13/64 drill bit was the largest that would fit so I guess it leaves the cylinder walls about .133 ?
Okay I guess if I hard block it. I think I'm going to wait on the new BBM 428 iron blocks and heard they might be available soon.

Mike what is the casting date of your block?

There were a lot of 352 and 390 blocks cast with 427 bottom ends in the 1964 model year (July '63 to July '64 casting dates).  These blocks have the cross bolting bosses and the extra main webbing.  I have never heard of a 391 block with these features but the first year for the FT was 1964. 

[jayb]

Yes the tall versus short water jacket passage block ID method only works for DIF blocks cast from '66 and up.  The 406 blocks have the short passages even though they are 4.13" bore.

Thanks for that info, its very interesting.  Regarding the extra webbing around the mains on the 391 truck blocks, all the ones I've seen have that, although that only totals 6-8 blocks.  Those blocks did not have the cross bolting bosses, though, and they were early '70s castings.

[TorinoBP88]

1964 390: i had one that was fully ready for cross bolting, so they did cast them that way some times.

[Heo]

Yes i have one of those to C4AE-A I think Dogh have one in his truck to
sew one other block at a friends house that he rebuilt for a customer

[wsu0702]

Yes the tall versus short water jacket passage block ID method only works for DIF blocks cast from '66 and up.  The 406 blocks have the short passages even though they are 4.13" bore.

Thanks for that info, its very interesting.  Regarding the extra webbing around the mains on the 391 truck blocks, all the ones I've seen have that, although that only totals 6-8 blocks.  Those blocks did not have the cross bolting bosses, though, and they were early '70s castings.

Yes all of the FT blocks I have had or seen have the extra webbing around the mains.  I was just saying that I have never seen an FT block that had the cross bolting bosses.  Jay of all of the 391 truck blocks that you have seen how many had the thick cylinder walls that would safely support a 4.13" bore? In my experience these seem to be pretty rare.

[mike7570]

Mike, the picture of the block you posted showing the deck appears to have the 390 water jackets, not the 428 water jackets.  See the drawings posted below, courtesy of my friend Kevin (thatdarncat).  The water jacket opening in the deck, shown in the picture, extends down below the head bolt hole on the 428, but not on the 390.  Are you sure the block you have is a 428 block, and not an overbored 390 block?  I have never seen a 428 block with those water jacket holes on the deck...

I now believe it's a 391 FT block that was cross bolted (does it have the same water jackets as a 390?) currently has a 4.16 bore.  A 13/64 drill bit was the largest that would fit so I guess it leaves the cylinder walls about .133 ?
Okay I guess if I hard block it. I think I'm going to wait on the new BBM 428 iron blocks and heard they might be available soon.

Mike what is the casting date of your block?

The block is a C4AE-A, I'll see if I can dig up some more pictures.

[wsu0702]

Mike, the picture of the block you posted showing the deck appears to have the 390 water jackets, not the 428 water jackets.  See the drawings posted below, courtesy of my friend Kevin (thatdarncat).  The water jacket opening in the deck, shown in the picture, extends down below the head bolt hole on the 428, but not on the 390.  Are you sure the block you have is a 428 block, and not an overbored 390 block?  I have never seen a 428 block with those water jacket holes on the deck...

I now believe it's a 391 FT block that was cross bolted (does it have the same water jackets as a 390?) currently has a 4.16 bore.  A 13/64 drill bit was the largest that would fit so I guess it leaves the cylinder walls about .133 ?
Okay I guess if I hard block it. I think I'm going to wait on the new BBM 428 iron blocks and heard they might be available soon.

Mike what is the casting date of your block?

The block is a C4AE-A, I'll see if I can dig up some more pictures.

It's easy to determine if it's an FT block. All FT blocks have a tapped hole just above the pan rail on the passenger side of the block.  It was used as an oil drain back for the air brake air compressor.

[Qikbbstang]

My friend is an x-Ford Industrial Salesman. I learned much about the Ford Industrial Division from him and witnessing the goings on of him and my other friend that was a top-ten Ford Racing Distributor.
         My x-Ford Ind Salesman had much experience with Holman & Moody who was also a Ford Ind Dist. He was on a first name basis at H&M. In the 90s there was much buying at the best price between Ford auto dealerships/parts, Ford Industrial and Ford Racing that I winessed.  My x-Ford salesman sold hundreds of GT40 302/351 heads, 302/351/429/460 short blocks, long blocks and even engines to Ford Racing Distributors and Ford car dealers/parts dept's.  FORD's pricing structure was very broad across the different distributors. His assoc salesman working at Highway Equip actually came from H&M and was in south Florida. My Ind Salesman bud told me he sold a few dozen 427's to savvy racers that went shopping for their motors/parts.
     Just a note: The 93-95 Ford Lightning's 351 used right out of the Ind book a Marine longblock  right down to it's cam and grey paint-- the guys at SVT that designed the Lightning simply grabbed an off-the shelf 351 longblock that was built tough for Marine use. The Pantera engines were in the Ford Industrial Parts books/microfiche.  They were sold/delivered to Italy via Ford Industrial to install in the cars.  He showed me and explained how Ford Industrial specified and sold the Marine 427's to Chris Craft... There were part numbers and batches that that spanned years.  H&M being a Ford Racing and Ford Industrial Dist obviously would "buy" from the FORD division that offered up the cheapest price. 
  When I see that oddball 427 "missing the center cross-bolting" motor Jay posted I figure that some Ford Ind Salesman had sat down and priced out a proposal to provide x-many 427s with every unique characteristic on Jay's pictured block. When you see that BBC Jay pictured you know that Chevy also had a salesman that wanted nothing but to keep the Ford salesman from getting that order. Hence if we can save a buck here or there so be it. Maybe that deduction of the main x-bolts saved $10./per motor?....and brought home the order.

    One time my Ford Ind bud sold me a NOS set of 429CJ bare heads he had scored by looking through another Ford Ind Dist's "surplus parts list" . I've got a H&M marine pamphlet (6 page) showing everything from 302 -to on the cover a BOSS 429 Marine Engine.
   

[mike7570]

Mike, the picture of the block you posted showing the deck appears to have the 390 water jackets, not the 428 water jackets.  See the drawings posted below, courtesy of my friend Kevin (thatdarncat).  The water jacket opening in the deck, shown in the picture, extends down below the head bolt hole on the 428, but not on the 390.  Are you sure the block you have is a 428 block, and not an overbored 390 block?  I have never seen a 428 block with those water jacket holes on the deck...

I now believe it's a 391 FT block that was cross bolted (does it have the same water jackets as a 390?) currently has a 4.16 bore.  A 13/64 drill bit was the largest that would fit so I guess it leaves the cylinder walls about .133 ?
Okay I guess if I hard block it. I think I'm going to wait on the new BBM 428 iron blocks and heard they might be available soon.

Mike what is the casting date of your block?

What date do these work out to?

[BruceS]

The lower picture shows a date code of 3C17, which is March 17, 1963.