Real cool piece

[428kidd]

on ebay, not mine nor do I know the guy selling it. Wasn't really posting it for the ad more for the info behind it. If its in the wrong spot fell free to move it Jay.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-SOHC-427-Belt-Cam-Drive-/122301282537?hash=item1c79b978e9:g:dMAAAOSwZQRYb-Qv&vxp=mtr

[KMcCullah]

Pretty simple looking when compared to the chain drive. I'm not a degreed mechanical engineer but I have converted a few V-belt drives and chain drives to Gates Poly Chain. I'm saying the amount of wrap on the crank pulley is not enough to prevent the belt from skipping. I'm betting we would be surprised at the pulling force required to zing everything on both heads to 9800 RPM. Maybe Jay can expand on this? I'm really skeptical of the claim "tested to 9800 RPM".

[My427stang]

I just posted similar on the old forum, a second idler would sure help wrap that lower gear better.  One backfire it looks like it would strip the belt

[machoneman]

Pehaps but.....note who is the seller. It's Jim Greene of Washington state fame, a fellow who has had cammers for many decades in street rods, dragsters, etc. This looks to be off an unfinished turbo project that I'll bet never ran.

Still, Greene has had similar drives on a bunch of cammers that have run and are still running. Bet that he would have added that extra idler before this project engine ever ran. More pics here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jim+greene,+sohc+ford&sa=X&rlz=1C1SAVS_enUS541US568&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=506&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwj6_7yWsbDRAhXh3YMKHWAsABgQsAQIKw&dpr=1.88#tbm=isch&q=jim+greene%2C+cammer++&imgrc=RK5NpBMjnvqF0M%3A

https://www.google.com/search?q=jim+greene,+sohc+ford&sa=X&rlz=1C1SAVS_enUS541US568&espv=2&biw=1024&bih=506&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwj6_7yWsbDRAhXh3YMKHWAsABgQsAQIKw&dpr=1.88#q=jim+greene,+cammer&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CaBaGmWTkN7FIjhq8dOjD0biTW-_1WTxmke6kECeCCOWzx_1LcLn31cMK93hzbbgD1meqFFa20JvAGfB1V49UAMZhZkSoSCWrx06MPRuJNEQtvROX-s6sXKhIJb79ZPGaR7qQRZJtdzt8s888qEgkQJ4II5bPH8hFRpL860pAOhioSCdwuffVwwr3eEaLQhrO83DlcKhIJHNtuAPWZ6oUR0u51oGTlvOgqEgkVrbQm8AZ8HRHoTEclNXr9IyoSCVXj1QAxmFmREVjyA56giVqD

http://www.allford.net.au/Paul%20Munro's%20Cammer%20427%20in%20Unique%20Car%20Magazine.htm

[jayb]

My guess is that it works fine, although more wrap on the lower pulley would certainly be better.  My objection to the setup is price (3.5X more expensive than a top of the line chain drive) and appearance.  Aesthetically, I think it looks ugly compared to the stock SOHC setup; no stock front cover, hacked off valve covers, etc.  The good chain drives available now using the 0.250 pin roller chain are trouble free.  Why would anyone cut up the front of their engine to use one of these?

[Barry_R]

I concur as to the need for more pulley wrap - just looks shaky - even if it does work.

I don't mind the cosmetics - I can make it pretty if desired.

I do think chains are perfectly fine, and there is a lot of durability to be gained by working on the chain sprocket alignment - we find significant front to back issues on the current setups.

[My427stang]

Question for you guys who have built them

If you were starting from scratch, no cammer parts on the bench, would it allow a standard FE front cover, reduce concerns of back plate leakage etc?

What's the cost of the cammer back plate, cover, and chain assembly?

I could see it adding it's own set of accessory drive challenges because of the real estate it takes up front, but I wonder if it has some other benefit to a guy starting a fresh build?

[e philpott]

if it was a class where the engine has to have the heads pulled after a few passes it's the only logical solution ..... like possibly a drag week situation , lol , agree on the wrap , they could add 4 teeth of bite with more rap easy

[WConley]

I gazed at one of those Jim Greene setups in Ron Miller's Ford Power Parts shop a long time ago.  The belt is most certainly up to the task of powering those cams, x10 at least!  It's a beast, though I agree a better wrap at the crank would be a good thing.

I'm not a big fan of the aesthetics either, but it obviously served a useful purpose for timing stability/ damping and removing the heads on the race engine.

Now how about a Danny Bee - style Kevlar timing belt under the existing timing cover 

[machoneman]

"Now how about a Danny Bee - style Kevlar timing belt under the existing timing cover."

Now that is a much better idea. Gilmer pulleys and a Kevlar belt....cool!   

[jayb]

Question for you guys who have built them

If you were starting from scratch, no cammer parts on the bench, would it allow a standard FE front cover, reduce concerns of back plate leakage etc?

What's the cost of the cammer back plate, cover, and chain assembly?

I could see it adding it's own set of accessory drive challenges because of the real estate it takes up front, but I wonder if it has some other benefit to a guy starting a fresh build?

Good point about leakage from the back plate, those things are indeed tough to get sealed up.

Robert Pond sells the front cover for $850 and the backing plate for $250 if I recall correctly.  His chain drive with chain and gears is about $1000.

[Barry_R]

Good point about leakage from the back plate, those things are indeed tough to get sealed up.

Agree there.  Front dress on these is either leaking - or about to start leaking.

I do not really like the whole deal of mounting the idler and tensioner to a plate mounted through a gasket.  Not real fond of trying to locate stub thrust with a snap ring through the front cover either.  Lots of parts to tolerance stack and no real way to check what you've done to the for & aft alignment.  I have one on the stand where we tweaked it to use a normal FE thrust plate and just let it float in the nose bearing in the cover.

A cogged belt would eliminate the alignment issues - they kinda fix themselves.

[wsu0702]

The lack of belt wrap looks worse in the main Ebay image because they did not install the lower right backside idler for some reason and the belt is very slack. I hear what you are saying though it looks like there is hardly any belt wrap on the crank pulley. For these Gates style timing belts you only need 6-7 teeth of full engagement contact to achieve 100% load rating and design life. Below is a pic of a properly installed Jim Green belt drive set-up. Does it have at least 6-7 full tooth engagement on the crank pulley?  Hard to say just by looking at the pic.