FE build

[Heo]

Hi
I havent worked on the FE engine since the 80s
and have a couple of questions
I have some C4AE-C and C1AE-A in the 80s
the word was there were equal to Cobrajet heads
with CJ valves installed but smaller cambers.
Dont know if thats true .Is it wort the trouble and
money today  or should i just buy new heads
I have a 390 PI thats bored .060 are going to
sonic the block but i suspect some of the bores is
flexing.How thick  cylwhals do you need ?

I got some other FE blocks,probably 390s  is there any better than
others or is they about the same
Im going to buy a stroker kit from survivalmotorsport
if not the shiping to sweden totaly kill my wallet
O''r i have to go there and cary it home in suitcases









8

[jayb]

Those are good heads with a minor port cleanup and CJ sized valves.  Here in the US its hard to beat just buying Edelbrock heads, but I imagine they are more expensive in Sweden when you factor in the shipping costs, so if you can get your heads worked on for a reasonable price you might want to stick with those.  If you just bought Edelbrock heads you don't really need any special port work to make 500 horsepower, and they have a good chamber and are aluminum for less weight.  It all depends on how much you want to spend, I guess.

If you are not going to crazy with the overbore any 390 block ought to be good enough for up to 600 horsepower.

[Heo]

Thanks for the answer Jay
2I gues in a perfekt world i had to spend nothing :)but.....
I dont mind spending on things that give result. say on a
engine like the prison break 390 in Car craft how much
will i be down in power with cj valved and cleaned C1AE
heads compared to Edelbrock.I gues after i buy valves,
springs,guides and so on and my time for machining
them the price is not much cheaper
I prefer the factory look with stock Ford parts
but i dont give away say 50 60 horses just for the look

And anotherquestion the shorty cast headers C1 something
how god are those.Ilike them leakfree and quieter but
again are they a bottleneck on such an engine

I also got a streetmaster intake on the shelf since the 80s
that i understand is a god intake compared to other
"modern"intakes..thought that was outdated stuf
till i started reading about resent FE builds and
almost started milling it down to make a efi intake
Now i wait for your intake bottoms to be ready









i

[jayb]

I doubt that you will be down too much with the C4 heads if you do some minor porting work and put in the CJ sized valves.  How much you will be down in power, or up in power, depends on how much porting you do to the cast iron heads.  If you port them so they flow like the Edelbrocks, I doubt you would be down more than a few horsepower, if at all.

The shorty headers aren't bad, but they aren't as good as a tube header.  On the testing I did for my book, they were down 15-20 HP compared to most of the steel tube headers that I tested on the 500 HP 390 stroker engine.

[Heo]

Thanks Jay
Where can i buy your book?

[jayb]

Here:

http://www.fepower.net/GFEIC.html

[Heo]

One book ordered

[JimNolan]

jayb,
    While you're here and if you'd be gracious enough to lend me your knowledge, I've got a question. I bought a set of heads that were advertised as 406 heads C3AE-C. They didn't have the big exhaust valves and they didn't have the spring cups cut into the casting. I took those heads and had a good head guy clean up the bowls and runners and install 1.65 exhaust valves along with viton seals. The heads ended up having 67 CC chambers. My question is, is the heads I've got now as good as a set of real 406 heads ( The 67cc chambers worked to my benifit I'm thinking by giving me a 10.4 SCR using .020 gaskets and a .043 quench). I run 89 octane. Thank you very much, Jim

[jayb]

Jim, I guess I don't know the answer to your question.  I've never had a set of original 406 heads, so I don't have any flow numbers or any dyno data.  However, if you have the same sized valves as original 406 heads and have the bowls  and ports cleaned up a little on the heads you've got, my guess would be that your heads will work better than an original set of 406 heads.

Maybe someone else here who knows more about these will chime in on this one...

[JimNolan]

Thanks Jay,
    I too just bought one of your books too. I bought a Streetmaster intake for my next project because of your dyno results, so did a friend of mine. Keep up the good work and then sharing it with us. Jim  PS. If the 406 C3AE-C head and the 390 C3AE-C head have the same casting except for the combustion chamber CC's, I'd think the 390 version would be more useable with good exhaust flow for a street driven car.

[Heo]

Next problem where to find Cobra jet valves??
Cant find them in manleys or ferreras catalog
Summit only has Cobra jet sized valves for
Edelbrock heads. Are they the same or are they
Only for edelbrock heads?

[jayb]

They are the same.  You can also usually find them on ebay for a pretty reasonable price.

[Heo]

When i get things running i guess the stock T10
gets a litle fragile .Im thinking about a TKO 600
anybody here that have tried one behind a FE
in a 64 galaxie ? do you have to modifie the
floor?Or is theré a better trans in my aplication?

[JimNolan]

Heo,
   I put a TKO 600 behind my stock 390 in my 57 Ford Fairlane 500. I've put over 30K miles on it since 4/1/2009. If you pay extra for the short FE input shaft you have no problems making the swap. I use a 3.50 tru-trac and street tires also. I turn 15.2 @ 91mph (shifting at 4K)  through the quarter and get 20 mpg with it on the way home from the race track or car show. It's the most amazing transmission you'll ever buy. I cruise at 60-65 mph @ 1850 rpm with that 3.50 rear end. I've got to be honest though, you'll spend about $4500 by the time you get you're drive shaft recut, clutch, pressure plate, new crossmember, special pilot bearing, throw out bearing, safety bell housing, flywheel, etc. But, it's the smoothest transmission I've ever sat behind at any speed. Jim

[Heo]

Thanks Jim
Yes like all conversions thats
more to it than just the gearbox

[drdano]

I put a TKO600 in my '62 Galaxie and agree with Jim, it's a nice trans.  Since my car sits really low, I channeled the transmission hump up 3" the entire length of the car so I wouldn't have excessive working angles on the prop shafts.  Lot of time and money?  Oh yes...  Worth it?  For me, definitely.  4.11 gears for blasting the big barge around town and reasonable highway MPG.  Heres a thread that covers what I went through:  http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/galaxie-pages/494741-danos-62-galaxie-tko-swap-thread.html

[JimNolan]

drdano,
   Nice to hear from you again. It's been a while. If these guys knew what we did about a TKO 600, Tremec stock would go up in a hurry. I've heard some guys say a Tremec was a piece of junk. But they had 10 sec cars shifting at 8 grand. My car is for shows, cruising and occasional trips to the strip. The people that don't like the Tremec shift at 8 grand and the miles they put on their cars are on a trailer. Jim

[Heo]

Yes i need a overdrive where i live nearest bigger town
is 100 miles back and fort and our price on gas is
something i cant tell you beacuse you going to
call me a lier if i do
How is it to shift can you powershift it and
still have the gears inside the box

[JimNolan]

Heo,
   What I call powershifting ( putting your gas foot on the floor and not letting up shift ) is effortless. If I've never missed a shift or scrapped the gears, anybody could do it with this transmission. Jim  PS. You won't be powershifting into 5th though. That's a whole different throw. I'd be afraid to attemp that one.

[drdano]

The TKO600 is a nice trans out of the box and I think for those who aren't going 6000rpm+ to shift, it's going to work good.  Liberty Trans and others can modify them to high-rpm shift with upgraded components.  My new motor is done making power at 5500rpm, so I dont see any reason to go that hard.  Powershifting is no big deal, but the 2-3 shift takes some un-learning to do correctly.  You slide that sucker straight forward with your palm, not moving it over at all otherwise you get lost between 3rd and 5th.  Once I got that down no trouble ever. 

[JimNolan]

  You slide that sucker straight forward with your palm, not moving it over at all otherwise you get lost between 3rd and 5th.  Once I got that down no trouble ever.

Amen, brother preach on. I had to figure out that one too. Was scarey at first but it never fails to go into third. Jim

[BigNate]

  You slide that sucker straight forward with your palm, not moving it over at all otherwise you get lost between 3rd and 5th.  Once I got that down no trouble ever.

Amen, brother preach on. I had to figure out that one too. Was scarey at first but it never fails to go into third. Jim

Funny - I've got two friends with new (2011+) 5.0 Mustangs who have both complained about the 2-3 shift doing exactly what you describe - with the same remedy...

[JimNolan]

I shifted a Mustang with a Tremec in it. I felt like holding the shifter between my thumb and fore finger to shift it. It was such a short throw. My Tremec has a throw like a T-10 and you use a shifter handle like the one's from back when. The only way you'd know I got a 5 speed is it's location on the floor hump and the fact you don't miss shifts.  Jim

[Heo]

The book came today  Jay very interesting
you have made a lot of effort  to make this book
thank you for that
Im pretty sure of my combination now

[jayb]

Glad you like it.  The whole purpose of the book was to help people zero in on the best combination; good to hear that it helped.

[Heo]

I have another question for you Jay
Im abouth to build inividual runner
EFI for my Galaxie
on the SOHC in your Galaxie you
had some kind of EFI with eight
individual runners. If im thinking
right here you must have some
kind of "plenum" from port to
port for the vacum? Both for the
engine management and if i want
to run the powerbrakes
I was about to mill down a streetmaster
and weld aluminium tubing for the runners
and use 8 Pinto trottle bodys that are 52 mm
about 2.09 inch like the intake valves
am i thinking right there?
Now i gues i wait for the PSE bottom and weld
an intake to match that
I have a Cleveland 4V that i can build the intake on
I thinking about making the flanges thick enough
to drill holes along the flanges and that way get
the vacum plenum invisible and just conect them
at the end with a hose or a tube
I hope you understand what im rambling about
its not easy to explain in a language your not
so familiar with

[jayb]

My individual runner SOHC intake is a Hilborn fuel injection setup converted to EFI.  I drilled and tapped each runner for a 1/8" pipe fitting and then ran a steel line from each runner to a sealed box in the middle of the manifold; I get the vacuum signal from that.  You could do the same thing.  Your idea of running the hole through the flange of the upper manifold is an interesting one; I think it would work, but I don't know how a connection between the ports right at the manifold would affect the engine's operation.  Running a tube from each runner to a remote box adds some isolation between the runners, and that may be important.  But I'm guessing; I don't know for sure.  If it was me I'd stay on the side of caution and use the tubes, because they will work for sure.

On the throttle butterflies, my SOHC has a 2.3" intake valve and a 2.43" throttle butterfly, and the throttle butterflies are too small for the horsepower level of my engine.  On the Weber setup I tested for my book, the throttle butterflies are 48mm (not quite 2"), and the intake valves are 2.09" to 2.25", depending on the dyno mule.  This manifold worked really well up to about 550 horsepower, but fell off after that.  So I think your 52mm Pinto throttle bodies ought to be just fine if you are shooting for 600 horsepower or less.

Your project sounds really interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing your intake manifold when it is built!

[Heo]

Thanks for the answer Jay
Yes im shooting for less than
600 hp .This EFI intake is more
beacuse i like fabricating and
we got so long booring winters
Yes maby taking out the vacum
so close to the intake valve give
unstable signals...and dificult to
bore. well if i bore it and its not
working a can plug it up
I post here when i made some progress
But now we got the summer coming and
and im doing some bodywork on my dads
Packard Roadster so progress will be slow
for a while

[Heo]

Here is another question Jay do you still
have the Cleveland tunelram intake you
tested and if could you please meassure
C-C on the runners on top of the lower intake
and the diameter on the runners in the same
place.Or if somebody out there have a Cleveland
tunelram that can meassure that for me
otherwise i guess i can order a gasket for the
bottom-top but probably no speedshop in
Sweden have that in stock

PS. with C-C I meant Center to Center not
The volume DS.

Im thinking maby i can use a t-ram and cast a
new top to mount the throttle bodys on
How inportant is the location of the nossles?
Some say you should aim them at the
intake valve but a friend of me had a brand x
540 with Kinsler mecanical F.I and there was 3
locations for the nossles. And if i remember right
it developed most power on the dyno with the
nossles in the highest position or maby it was
the highest torque
After all we shorted the stacks and placed the
nossles acording to Kinslers recomendations
acording to the first dyno curve
and it was  real strong.