Poor mans 4.5 inch stroke?

[Joey120373]

I'll do my best to post picks, this is going to be a long process. I'm in no hurry, want to get it right.

[cjshaker]

Can I ask why you feel the need for such a large cubic inch engine in the first place? You're not drag racing, or pulling a sled, right?  Just a 4.25 stroke and bored block will get you plenty of inches, and power, and there are plenty of readily available parts for it. Why double the cost and triple the effort for just a few cubic inches that won't make any real difference?

[WConley]

+1 on what Doug says.  With that cam in the tunnel you're fighting yourself for those few extra inches.  You'll have to keep the cam lift below a certain value, which will hurt the big engine's ability to breathe.

I also can't imagine a Modular 5.4L rod working in an FE.  Have you seen how narrow those things are?  You'll have to run 140 wt gear oil to get any pressure with those side clearances 

[Joey120373]

Very valid points. It's a lot of trouble and expence to go through for what will ammout to an extra 20-25 cubes.

This is all very achademic, I would prefer to keep it simple, 4.35 bore ( thanks Blair) and 4.375 stroke.
But my father wants to go as big as possible, he is dead set on it.

 That's mainly the reason i started this thread :

A, to find out if it was possible, and

B, if so, how much can be gained and what is the cost for those extra cubes.

As it sits now it looks like it is possible, but those 20 extra cubes are going to cost  about $100 each, minimum. Putting  it in those terms, it's just not worth it, to me anyway. And I think, with the info I now have, I might finally be able to get him to come around.

If I thought I could get an extra 1/8th inch of stroke or so for $5-$600 I would probably conceder it. But it looks like the machining alone is going to be that much or more. but once the custom rods enter the mix it's just not worth it.

At the end of the day, I'm the one footing the bill for the motor, so it's my call. My dad and I have always bonded over hot rods, so half the fun for me is including him in the build. Honestly I think  he is more excited about it than I am.

Thanks.

[fastback 427]

If your not in a hurry you should get on the list for one of Jay's raised cam spread bore fe blocks. Any update on those?

[Joey120373]

If your not in a hurry you should get on the list for one of Jay's raised cam spread bore fe blocks. Any update on those?

Man that would be cool, but I'm guessing a billet crank is pretty much a must on one of those...

[jayb]

If your not in a hurry you should get on the list for one of Jay's raised cam spread bore fe blocks. Any update on those?

Just to clarify, they are not my blocks, I am waiting on the block manufacturer.  I have not had an update in several weeks, so as far as I know the design is still in process - Jay

[KMcCullah]

Welcome Joey, I enjoyed reading this thread. I did a big inch FE with my dad last year. He's raced a bunch of FE's in his day. So the whole project was sort of a homecoming thing for him. Wish I could afford to do one every year with him. Below is a link to the build.

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=2481.0

One thing I can tell you.......With a 4.375 stroke, 2.2 Scat I-beam rods and .660 lift cam I could barely fit a .025 feeler gauge between the hip of the rod and #7 exhaust lobe of the cam. Didn't have to grind on anything but it all was damn close.

Again welcome Joey and please keep us posted. Shit tons of pics too...... 

[Pentroof]

Get in touch with Robotnik at Survival. He's got a set of custom 4.350 pistons for sale that he got stuck with. Couple other variations as well.

I don't know why you're stretching to get the cubes either...it's not like you'll ever feel the difference in a 2WD pickup. The tires will never hook well enough, especially on the street. At this point it's about conversation utility because it's not like you'll SEE the difference either.

A sexy exotic intake is worth way more when bench racin' 

[Drew Pojedinec]

*cough*
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1337989141/Recipe+for+630+lb-ft+of+torque...

[plovett]

You're killing yourself for nothing.  this is coming from a guy who likes "different combos".  This isn't the place for one, in my opinion.  You're going to gain a few cubes which is a bit useful for a truck combination.  If you're going to stick with the FE then use a "normal" 4.25 or 4.375 inch crank and rod combo.   Cubic inches are not magic, especially when increased in relatively small increments.

It's much cheaper and more effective to just lower the gearing by about the same percent as you were going to increase the displacement.  Use a 3.91 gear instead of a 3.70 gear and you have the same result, except for cruise rpm, for waaaaaaay less money and engineering. 

People get psychologically stuck on numbers, though, especially cubic inches.  In your case, it doesn't make sense, IMO.  Unless you just WANT to do it to prove you can.  Nothing wrong with that.

Logically, a stroked (or even a stock stroke) 385 series makes much more sense.  If you want to stay FE, I'd say a "cookie cutter" 4.25 inch rotating assembly is the way to go.

JMO,

paulie

[Joey120373]

People get psychologically stuck on numbers, though, especially cubic inches.

I belive you very accurately described my father.

After reading the responses on this thread, and way to many emails back and forth with the old man, I think we have moved past the issue.
I'm going to do what I wanted to do in the first place, which is to call Barry and order the kit.
I apriciate all the advice, and it is fun to play around with engines, on paper anyway, much cheeper that way.

Thanks

[plovett]

People get psychologically stuck on numbers, though, especially cubic inches.

I belive you very accurately described my father.

After reading the responses on this thread, and way to many emails back and forth with the old man, I think we have moved past the issue.
I'm going to do what I wanted to do in the first place, which is to call Barry and order the kit.
I apriciate all the advice, and it is fun to play around with engines, on paper anyway, much cheeper that way.

Thanks

It happens to the best of us.  That is, the infatuation with numbers.  I think you are on the right track with regards to cost/effectiveness. 

I will repeat that gearing, as unsexy as it is, compared to cubic inches, cylinder head flow, exotic intakes, multiple carbs, etc., etc. is vastly important and hugely ignored.

JMO,

paulie

[Drew Pojedinec]

All that money you were going to spend getting an extra 20 cubic inches could be put toward a Gear Vendors which make Plovett's gearing suggestion even better.