Time for a Hydraulic roller cam, need help choosing!!

[Bolted to Floor]

It’s time to pick a hydraulic roller cam and I need some help getting the right one. And whether to advance, retard, or hit the 0 slot in the keyway. Figured on buying the Morel roller lifters since they get a lot of positive feedback. The car is a street cruiser and maybe a track visit every once in a while.

The Mustang will have
5 speed Tremec with the .64 5th gear
power brakes
air conditioning
3.50 rear gears
245/45 17 tire or something of similar height

Intake manifold is up in the air. I have a 2X4 low rise, but the thought of tuning 2 carbs is a little daunting, I wasn’t really good with one years ago.     The thought of the FI Tech injection is intriguing for the 2X4 intake. I do have an S intake to get started with if necessary.


Using the Wallace racing engines calculator, the static compression is 9.74 to 9.84 depending on deck height of .005 to .0 using the 11.7cc value.


Bore 4.11
Piston Sealed Power 381NP-.060 over - 10.33 to 11.7 cc depending on where I look.
Pin dia. Stock .975
Compression distance 1.66
Crank Stroke 3.98
Rod length Stock 6.488
Deck height 0 deck to .005 in the hole according to the Machinist
Cylinder head – Felony heads from Barry 76 cc chamber
Head gasket Fel Pro 1020
Timing chain Ford Motorsports with 9 position keyway


Is there any other information I need to add?

Where would a cam choice put me for DCR and what are the acceptable ranges?

Thanks for the help.

Edit to correct tire size...
 

[My427stang]

I'd be looking in the 278-282 range for the intake and likely a little more for the exhaust but not a lot for good heads like Barry's.  I think he and Brent have some favorite cams in the 224-230 range at .050 and with good healthy lift to take advantage of those heads.  Likely the standard 110 LSA on 106 will work fine, but depending how your numbers come in, that could be tweaked.  You don't need a huge cam with good heads and a 410-based build

If able, I would reconsider gear choice though, I think the 3.50s will be way too tall in 5th until break neck speeds and with a "smaller" stroker you'll be happier around town with more gear.  I went from a 3.70 to a 4.11 with 275/60-15s and lost no high speed performance or fuel mileage and gained everywhere else.  Your combo with a 4.10/4.11 would be much nicer in traffic and on the highway IMHO.  Keep in mind .64 * 4.11 = 2.63, that's pretty darn tall and you get the benefit of more torque multiplication in every other gear too.  Your tires are a bit shorter than mine, so you could fall back to a 3.89/3.91, but I wouldn't go taller, and honestly, 4.11s are likely cheaper and remember I run about 60 more cubes.

One thing I will promise though, more gear won't make it radical or uncomfortable, it'll actually be happier in traffic

The S intake would be a darn shame, you would lose 50 hp before turning the key.  If you decide to go single 4, go with an RPM intake.  Any EFI, including the FI Tech would be nice, but an out of the box 3310 would likely run like a dream too, just not have the self adjustibility and adaptability of the EFI

[turbohunter]

I'm actually going through all these calcs right now for my mustang. T 600 with .64 5th also
I'm going to try stuffing an 18 inch wheel in the rear so I'm talking myself into 4.11s also.
I'd love to stay with 3.90s because I see it as a freeway flyer but as Ross has suggested I have the feeling 4.11s will work better everywhere.

Edit
At 80 mph with a .64 5th, 28 inch tire and 4.11s rpm would be about 2525. According to the online calc I used.

[blykins]

You get into some hairy spots with FE hydraulic rollers.  An aggressive lobe that keeps DCR in a happy spot will most likely be a little noisy.  A quiet HR lobe will be low on DCR.  I run the lazy ones most of the time. 

I trust that your math is right, so looking at a 420-ish inch engine with good heads, I would run something in the mid 220's for .050" duration.  I use a lot of the individual Thumpr lobes in my custom hydraulic rollers.  They have a 227° @ .050" lobe that works really well for combinations like this.  283 advertised, 227 @ .050", 110 LSA on a 104 ICL, with .600" lift.  With Barry's head, it will peak at around the 5700-5800 mark.   DCR will be in the upper 7's with that stick.   The valvetrain will be quiet with those lobes, but the cam will have a nice lope to it with great throttle response. 

[My427stang]

Marc - That's exactly the combo in my car, 28 inch tall tire, TKO-600, 4.11s, and a .64.  I would not go back to the 3.70s for any reason.  5th gear is far more usable and 1-4 is a pleasure.  FWIW 1-4 with 3.70s was good before too, but I found myself driving real fast when cruising and going by sound in my car on the highway.

Brent - I like that cam, no need to have DCR on a knife edge as you know, and bringing it up to 104 will make lots of vacuum for his power brakes, sounds like a nice combo

[Bolted to Floor]

Thanks for the responses. I screwed up the tire size, I should have been 245/45 17.  It’s corrected now. I may get different gears down the road.

I agree Ross, it will be a dam shame to keep that S intake for any length of time, but it will have to do to get the car moving. I really like the 2x4 intakes and want to move that way, but don’t want to splurge for a RPM.

I remember reading in here before to not get hung up on the DCR, so I’ll try not to. 

Brent, that’s a lot of lift and I’m surprised by the peak RPM. I thought this thing would just be making noise after 5500!! I know I will need to check for valve to piston clearance anyway, but what’s the chance something will make contact? That would mean having the pistons flycut, then re-balancing, right? Not wild about that idea.

Is this the cam you are referring to?  Comp Grind# 283THR7

I will start looking at off the shelf cams with the parameters listed. I'll ask the questions cause I don't know and I ain’t near smart enough to talk with anyone about custom grinds. 

[blykins]

You won't find that cam in an off-the-shelf package.  It's my opinion, but I'm just not particularly fond of a lot of off-the-shelf camshafts for FE's.  I've found that a lot of Comp's off-the-shelfers are noisy because of the lobes that they use.  They also all have the "mandatory" 6° split that most cam manufacturers seem to have across a universal line of camshafts.  Now don't get me wrong, they will most likely work pretty well, but there are just some specs that I feel can be improved on most of the time.

A .550-.600" lift camshaft is pretty par for the course these days.  I did forget that you were using factory style slugs, and I've never used those particular pistons before, but I don't think you'd have an issue at .600" (I could be wrong, maybe someone else can verify).  Those lobes are also available with a lower lift, so if that's a concern, it can be adjusted.

DCR is not something to get hung up on, but it's a nice thing to be able to check, just to make sure that you won't have the potential for big problems with pump gas, etc. 

[Drew Pojedinec]

Buying off the shelf cam's or torque convertors doesn't make any sense to me.

I'd sooner call one of the many FE builders and discussing exactly what my car and engine is, and what I want it to do.
In my case with Mr Lykins, our conversation went like:

"Brent, My car/engine/rear gears/transmission/etc is like this.  I think I want the cam to be XXX lift, XXX @.050 duration, XXX Lsa, etc."

"Cool Drew, that is pretty close to what I thought, but you'd be better off with a little more duration here, and more lift there, it'll help the car get a few more rpm without losing anything.  By the way, this custom cam doesn't cost any more than an off the shelf cam."

"Great, you are the expert, lets make it happen."

[machoneman]

2X!

Brent is almost too nice here: give him your specs, he quotes you a price and you send him a check!

Simple and very effective!

[Drew Pojedinec]

Didn't mean for it to sound like a Lykins advertisement...  (just the direction I went as he was building the engine for me).

I'm sure, Barry, Brent, Blair, oregon cams, blue oval performance, etc are all more than capable of handling this.

A big part of custom cams, convertors, etc is being totally honest with yourself and your usage.
With my 63.5 I was willing to sacrifice a little hp for driveability.

[Bolted to Floor]

Thanks guys. I could tell Brent this is what I’m thinking for a cam…… after he stops laughing, I can hear “now how about something that works”      I just don’t have the knowledge base to get there. So that call will get made.


I like simple and effective, I don't usually get those together. Giving up a few HP for drivability would not be bad either thing either.