Author Topic: Lykins Motorsports 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...  (Read 16560 times)

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TJ

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2016, 04:21:21 PM »
Ford Truck Enthusiasts.
It's basically 20 people that are really informed on ford truck, 100 people that are slowly improving their trucks, and 10,000 high school kids that know everything.

I'm "DeepRoots" over there.

That's about the size of it.

FirstEliminator

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2016, 05:11:09 PM »
I'm a member of a few Ford truck sites. The ones I've been visiting don't have much activity. Fordification.net OldFordCrewCabs.com I think. I'm slowly building my truck too. So I don't visit much. My truck is a 79 F-350 Crew Cab Long Bed 2wd. Similar to your application, I am building a 545 stroker from a 460. Got a cam spec'd by Scott at ReIncarnation. Going to be a good truck build. It will have an E4OD behind it. I reduced the rear gear from 4.10 to 3.73. Performer RPM, FPA headers, mildly ported D3 heads. Hopefully, the mileage should be at least as good or even slightly better than with the smogged out 460, C-6 and 4.10. I'm sure the performance will be night and day better.

    Your 482 is very similar to what I'd like to build for my Colony Park wagon. Let me ask ya, what rpm does your 482 idle? Is it a smooth idle? Or does it have some chop?

Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts

70 Cougar XR-7 460 C-6
70 Cougar XR-7 conv 351c 4v FMX
69 Cougar SS 351w AOD
69 Cougar Sunroof Eliminator 351w FMX
69 Cougar XR-7 390 C-6
68 Monterey 390 C-6
68 Monterey conv 390 C-6
64 Montclair Marauder 390 Merc-O
58 Monterey 383 Merc-O
58 Parklane 430 MultiDrive
68 Colony Park 428 C-6
68 Colony Park 390 C-6
58 Parklane 430 MultiDrive
70 Cougar Eliminator 351c 4 speed
I don't feel like a hoarder.

TJ

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2016, 06:51:35 PM »
I have it idling 850ish, and it has a nice little rumble.  I classify it as a spirited truck engine... definitely more aggressive than a typical truck from the '60s.

FirstEliminator

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2016, 09:30:35 PM »
   When I put together the engine for the wagon, I'll probably be looking for an idle speed of 600-700. A little less cam might be best for me. I watched the video. I tend to speculate that with about 5 degrees less duration and 112 maybe 113 lobe separation will get me the idle speed and quality I'm looking for.
    I would bet you might find another mpg with vacuum advance.

     Here is something to think about with your desires for an OD trans. With the length of your truck, there should be plenty of room for an auxiliary trans. a 3 or even 4 speed aux will get you any gear you want. I have a 1957 GM 4104 bus, like an....well, it is actually an old Greyhound bus. It has a 4 speed manual where 1st is so darn tall that the bus seems to idle at 10 or more mph. It's terrible at starting out on even a slight grade. Or, moving it around to park in a tight spot. I recently bought a Spicer 7041 aux trans to see if I could fit it in the bus. It will be a very tight squeeze to get it in there.  I may have to machine an adaptor plate to mount it directly on the V-drive. Since the trans is 30 feet behind the shifter, I will be setting it up with pneumatic cylinders to shift. I have a Brockway truck that has a pneumatically shifted auxiliary and it's a very nice set-up.  Anyway, you may find a smaller auxiliary like a Spicer 5531 or up to a 6041 might work for ya. I've seen installations in pick-ups on the web. 

   Mark
Mark
Berkshire Transmissions
North Adams, Massachusetts

70 Cougar XR-7 460 C-6
70 Cougar XR-7 conv 351c 4v FMX
69 Cougar SS 351w AOD
69 Cougar Sunroof Eliminator 351w FMX
69 Cougar XR-7 390 C-6
68 Monterey 390 C-6
68 Monterey conv 390 C-6
64 Montclair Marauder 390 Merc-O
58 Monterey 383 Merc-O
58 Parklane 430 MultiDrive
68 Colony Park 428 C-6
68 Colony Park 390 C-6
58 Parklane 430 MultiDrive
70 Cougar Eliminator 351c 4 speed
I don't feel like a hoarder.

abyars

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2016, 08:35:32 AM »
Ford Truck Enthusiasts.
It's basically 20 people that are really informed on ford truck, 100 people that are slowly improving their trucks, and 10,000 high school kids that know everything.

I'm "DeepRoots" over there.

Good one, but true in my opinion.
Anthony Byars
1970 Ford F250 Crew Cab 390 C6
1955 Chevrolet 4 door sedan
2004 Ford Expedition


blykins

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2016, 08:53:58 AM »
   When I put together the engine for the wagon, I'll probably be looking for an idle speed of 600-700. A little less cam might be best for me. I watched the video. I tend to speculate that with about 5 degrees less duration and 112 maybe 113 lobe separation will get me the idle speed and quality I'm looking for.
    I would bet you might find another mpg with vacuum advance.

     Here is something to think about with your desires for an OD trans. With the length of your truck, there should be plenty of room for an auxiliary trans. a 3 or even 4 speed aux will get you any gear you want. I have a 1957 GM 4104 bus, like an....well, it is actually an old Greyhound bus. It has a 4 speed manual where 1st is so darn tall that the bus seems to idle at 10 or more mph. It's terrible at starting out on even a slight grade. Or, moving it around to park in a tight spot. I recently bought a Spicer 7041 aux trans to see if I could fit it in the bus. It will be a very tight squeeze to get it in there.  I may have to machine an adaptor plate to mount it directly on the V-drive. Since the trans is 30 feet behind the shifter, I will be setting it up with pneumatic cylinders to shift. I have a Brockway truck that has a pneumatically shifted auxiliary and it's a very nice set-up.  Anyway, you may find a smaller auxiliary like a Spicer 5531 or up to a 6041 might work for ya. I've seen installations in pick-ups on the web. 

   Mark

The longer LSA spread would probably help with idle but you would lose some torque.  You would have to change the duration by more than 5 degrees to make a dent in it. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Rory428

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2016, 12:19:21 PM »
Sounds like a great engine for towing. TJ, have you considering a BW T-19 truck 4 speed? Although still a heavy cast iron trans, it does have a syncronized low gear, and has what I consider, much more usable 1 rst gear ratios. I believe the NP435 uses a 6.8ish 1rst gear, the T19 has a 4.0ish 1rst for diesel applications, and a 5.0ish 1rst gear when used with a 460 engine. However, BW also made a T-18, which was geared very similar to the NP435, and does not have a syncronized 1rst gear. Both the T-18 and T-19 look quite similar to each other, to tell them apart, a T-18 has a single PTO cover, on the drivers side, while the T-19 has 2 PTO covers, one on either side.For 26 years, I hauled my drag car with a 74 F350 DRW ramp truck/car hauler, normally weighed about 10,500 lbs, powered by a mild low compression 390 4 barrel engine from a 75 or 76 F250. Back in 1990, I just honed the bores, installed new rings on the original "410" cast piston, usual new bearings, valve job, timing chain etc. The only changes I made were a set of full length headers (Hedmans from 1990, FlowTechs about 10 years ago), a locally ground "RV" type hydraulic cam, and a C6 "S" cast iron 4 barrel intake mainold with a 450 cfm Holley carb. I also used the electronic "Duraspark" ignition from the donor truck. Mt truck had a NP435 trans, and 4.10 Dana 60 with 7.50R-16 Michelins, that were almost 32" tall. At 60 MPH, the RPMs were about 2700 RPM, the more common 235/85R16 truck tires are a bit shorter, so the RPM would be somewhat higher. I rarely used 1rst gear, unless starting off on a steep hill while loaded, but even still, the super low 1rst gear ratio meant I seldom got more than 10-15 MPH in first gear, I think the 5.0 low T-19 would be much more usable, plus being syncroed, much nicer to use. I realize that you have probably twice the power my 390 had, so a rear end ratio change may be OK, I never considered than myself.
As for a O/D 5 speed, my current tow setup is a 99 F350 DRW Super Cab 2wd, with a 6.8L V-10 and a ZF 5 speed trans, and Dana 80 with 3.73 gears. Tires are 235/85R16s. Not sure what the 1rst gear ratio in my ZF 5 speed is, but it is more usable that the NP435 in the old truck, plus is syncronized,but with 3.73 gearing, I normally tow on the freeway in 4th, only use 5th on long flat stretches, or at higher speeds. I tow a 24 foot Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, my truck alone is just under 7,000 lbs with me in it (no camper ,canopy, or any load in the box normally),and my loaded trailer is normally 7500-8000 pounds, so I am considerably heavier than the old ramp truck was. In O/D 5th, at 60 mph, the engine is about 2100-2200 RPM, in 4th its 2600 RPM, which is not too bad. In O/D 5th, there is virtually no throttle response, any hill requires dropping to 4th. Again, maybe your much stronger engine wouldn`t mind the O/D, or a taller gear ratio. I bought a used 5.0 low T-19 a few years back, to put in my 74 truck, but sold the truck before that happened. I understand the T-19 is a straight bolt it swap, my T-19 was from a 1984 F250 2WD, with a 460 engine.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

JamesonRacing

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2016, 03:52:05 PM »
Rory - Found a T19 2WD trans from a mid-80s Ford diesel pickup.  Should that be a direct swap for my current NP435?
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

TJ

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2016, 08:12:45 PM »
Thanks to all for the gearing ideas.  I hadn't thought about the spicer aux tranny.  I'll look into that. 

The T19 and the NV4500 have the same "flaw" for towing.  With my 390, the NP435 has a little too much gap between 3rd and 4th.  Any decent hill would bog me down in 4th and then I'd be stuck in 3rd doing 40mph at 3000 rpms.  While my new engine probably wouldn't bog down in 4th, I'd still like to have a between gear for that type of situation.  I'm guessing switching to a 3.55 rear would accentuate the gap between 3rd and 4th.  I can see why the last manual trannies Ford used were 6th speeds.

Brings me back to the GV.  It's one "flaw" is the price.

Rory428

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2016, 09:29:59 PM »
Rory - Found a T19 2WD trans from a mid-80s Ford diesel pickup.  Should that be a direct swap for my current NP435?
What I understand is that the trans bolt pattern, input shaft dimensions, bearing retainer are the same, not positive if there is any difference in the case length, shifter location,trans mount, or speedo cable location. Myself I would likely lean towards the 5.0 1rst gear ratio, rather than the 4.0, easy enough to check that, but then again, with your beast of a FE, may not been an issue.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

JamesonRacing

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2016, 09:44:24 AM »
Rory - Found a T19 2WD trans from a mid-80s Ford diesel pickup.  Should that be a direct swap for my current NP435?
What I understand is that the trans bolt pattern, input shaft dimensions, bearing retainer are the same, not positive if there is any difference in the case length, shifter location,trans mount, or speedo cable location. Myself I would likely lean towards the 5.0 1rst gear ratio, rather than the 4.0, easy enough to check that, but then again, with your beast of a FE, may not been an issue.

The T19s seem to be hard to locate - think I'll roll the dice and give the 4:1 first gear a try.  I can usually get the trailer rolling from a stop in 2nd gear (3:1) on the NP435, only using first if I'm at a complete stop going up hill.  I sure like the idea of having 3rd and 4th closer together.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

BigBlueIron

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2016, 02:56:37 PM »
Another good option is http://www.advanceadapters.com/categories/ranger-torque-splitter/236/ I currently have one in my rat rod behind a np435. I haven't been able to drive it yet but expect good things. Also unlike a GV this spliter can be used in 4x4. Looking for another for my 77 F-350 which this one was originally planned for.

TJ

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2016, 07:54:05 AM »
I considered advance adaptors.  They're only rated for 420 lb ft and I'd have to cut the snout off my NP435.  So that made me lean toward GV thinking that if I broke a GV, I can put my original driveshaft back on and be back on the road real quick.  Plus, not sure I want to move the gear shift closer to the seat.

blykins

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2016, 08:10:32 AM »
TKO 600?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
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TJ

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Re: 482FE, 538hp/620 lb-ft, towing application...
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2016, 10:51:05 AM »
Believe me, I eyeballed and calculated gears on the TKO 600's for a bit.  A big plus is they would have to be smoother/faster shifting than my NP435.  But (and please correct me), the TKO 600 has a 1st ratio at 2.87.  Even if I switched rears from a 4.10 to a 4.56, my new 1st gear would be slightly faster than my current 2nd gear.  I use 2nd gear for most starts, but use 1st when starting out with the camper and also when loaded and starting on hills.   That 0.68 overdrive would be nice with a 4.56 rear and the rest of the ratios look nice too.

I just think 1st and reverse on a TKO 600 would be too fast when loaded or towing.  I like the ratios on Ford's ZF 6...if it would only mate to my engine.

ZF 6-speed
 Low = 5.79
 1st = 3.31
 2nd = 2.10
 3rd = 1.31
 4th = 1.00
 5th = 0.72