The Road to Drag Week 2016 - Old School Style

[cjshaker]

I don't have anything near as exciting as Jay or Joel, but thought I'd throw my .02 cents in anyway.

Most of you know my car and combo, basically a stock bodied R-code Mach 1 with a Calvert suspension and 427 MR under the hood. Nothing fancy, basically a stock 427 except for the cam and rocker set-up, running though a Toploader 4 spd and Locker rear. Your basic stuff.

Without a line lock, I couldn't do a proper burnout at the FE Reunion, and coupled with bad shock settings I had really bad traction issues. To get ready for Drag Week I just added my Hurst Roll Control kit. Not where I wanted to put it, but with the engine, master cylinder and booster in the way there was no way I could get down in there under the master to mount it there. Removing the booster assy and master just wasn't something I wanted to do, so I mounted it in front of the shock tower.



Since my road is closed due to replacing the culvert next to my house, I have ZERO traffic on my road. Which presented itself as the perfect place to try it out



I finished it up Saturday and gave it a go-round on the road (this is all just fiction if we have any law enforcement officers on this page and everything seemed to work fine. I have a bit more air to bleed out, but I need to drive it a few times to get it worked through the system. Static bleeding just wouldn't get rid of it all.

Since I never use or need the heater, I removed the heater hoses for Drag Week to give me less things to go wrong. I actually like it better without the hoses in the way, so it'll stay that way. I also have my intake marked for different timing settings, so I can make quick changes without dragging out the timing light. If I get bad gas, it also gives me an idea of where to back it off to. I've always done it this way and it's pretty handy; I just verify the settings every spring to make sure nothing has changed. You can see my red 42* setting, where the engine made it's best power. The green is for 40* and the black for 38*.





I need to get started on my hitch and trailer now. Heo gave me a great idea for the hitch that I think will work out good and I won't have to cut up or weld anything to the car except to a spare rear bumper that I already have. Thanks for that idea, Heo! I've also decided that my little 4 lug lawn trailer isn't really up to the task even though it's wired for road duty, so now I need to find and purchase a better lightweight trailer and get it rigged up. I've been looking at the perforated steel trailers at Tractor Supply and think their smallest one will work ok after I re-do it. My friends still think I'm crazy for doing this, but they're anxious to come to Columbus or Norwalk to watch me and the others run.

[jayb]

Looks good Doug, wish my Mach 1 was as clean and sanitary looking as yours is.  Certainly an advantage to staying mostly stock.  I'll bet your friends will all be converts to Drag Week once they attend the event!

[Heo]

Im glad if it was  helping you Dough. I rode in Doughs car last year Jay
and it have that New car feel to it no squeks or rattles

[afret]

Line lock looks great.  It should help you with getting your tires to hook.

If you have some spare time after getting your hitch and trailer done,  you might consider getting cold air to your carbs at the track if your hood scoop if functional .  It helped my street car about .2-.3 sec in the quarter sealing the hood scoop to the carb. but it seems some others didn't see much difference with underhood air. 

Might be worth a try though for track use if you have a spare dual quad air cleaner base laying around.  I think Moroso makes a foam seal for this that you can glue on the air cleaner base but with a regular base, I don't think you'd have room for the air filter so it would be for racing only. This guy is selling a cold air base for use with an air filter but not sure if it's for a Mustang:

https://fastlaneinnovations.com/product/ramduct-2x4bbl/

[cjshaker]

I've been thinking about that, Earl. My hood scoop is the stock Mach 1 hood scoop and the hood is not cut out underneath, so it's not functional. I do have a reproduction dual quad air filter setup like is on the car now (except the one on the car is original), and I've thought about trying to rig something up that will catch clean air, but I haven't gotten past the thought stage yet. I don't really want to go cutting on the car too much though. I have another car that I'm working on that will be subjected to the knife

The cold air definitely makes a big difference on my car. The difference on a cool fall day is pretty drastic, but it still runs ok without any issues even with the hot air under the hood. Took me a little tuning to get it that way though, and I have to mix my gas so it doesn't try to diesel on shut-off on hot days. It doesn't do it except on hot days, and letting the clutch out a bit while shutting it off stops it. I think I'll be carrying an extra 5 gallons of race fuel to mix on fill ups between tracks just to stay on the safe side.

[Hemi Joel]

Nice car.    I want to see a pic of that closed road with tire stripes all over it!

[cjshaker]

I offered the crew an extra $100 if they slowed down the work. The boss was NOT amused by that. Some people just have no sense of humor

[Heo]

 

[cjshaker]

Not much to report on on the car, since there isn't much to do to it. I fitted my spare HS rockers to some new heavy duty shafts, for spares, although it's doubtful I'll need them. I need to order some spare pushrods also. It hasn't been easy getting stuff done, with temps in the garage over 100* by the time I get home.



I finally got started on the trailer and hitch, which was/is my biggest concern. Trying to keep everything lightweight without building a special expensive aluminum trailer has been my goal. I found a good deal on a lightly used trailer, the kind for hauling lawn mowers, so I bought it and promptly took it home and put it on a diet, and cut it into bits First thing I did was remove the heavy rear ramp section and chopped a 1' section out of the front and welded it back together.







After doing some trial fitting of the tires and spare parts I intended to haul, I determined it was still too big, so I chopped another 1' off the back.



Now I just need to make a cheap aluminum frame for a box canopy to keep stuff dry inside. Simple but effective...hopefully. I'm still trying to derive the best way to make a hitch without cutting or hacking into the car. I think I'm going to need to drill 2 bolt holes in the trunk floor, behind the rear valance, and that will be it. As of now, I'm going to use some 1/2" bar stock sandwiched between the bumper brackets and the body, as the main point for attaching the hitch. It'll space the bumper out a 1/2" and probably make it look a bit goofy, but it'll be easily removable, and the weight might even help with traction.

Jay, it'd be interesting to see how you attached your hitch to the Mach 1. Got any pictures of that set-up?

[jayb]

Doug, the first go around for me on the hitch didn't work, it tore the sheet metal in the trunk on the fourth day of Drag Week 2005.  When I went back a couple years later, I also used the hitch to mount the parachute, so I did some fairly involved gusseting and support work under the trunk floor to make sure it was stable.  You probably don't want to do that, and I don't have any pictures of it anyway.  I like your idea of the replaceable bumper, and I think as far as a support extending back towards the trunk floor, I would make sure to put a plate under the support so force against the trunk floor is spread out over a wide area.  With your trailer being pretty light, I think that's going to work fine.

[cjshaker]

I like your idea of the replaceable bumper, and I think as far as a support extending back towards the trunk floor, I would make sure to put a plate under the support so force against the trunk floor is spread out over a wide area.  With your trailer being pretty light, I think that's going to work fine.

That is exactly what I had planned on, a plate that spread the load out. The 2 holes I mentioned were for the plate to bolt to the floor. I might include a light upper plate to sandwich the floor.

I was there that first year when you started developing problems with your hitch, at Columbus I think. I let you use a telescoping mirror I had, so you could see what was happening underneath. I'm still waiting on the check for tool rental.

[Pentroof]

Doug,
I don't quite understand the strategy with the trailer. How much weight did you actually save by cutting it down? A short tongue to axle length will make it less stable and actually could have a worse effect on the hitch with side loads as it corrects itself going down the road.

Is the plan to build a tall box to enclose the gear? You may find the sail effect creates more resistance than if you kept the original deck size and reduced the overall height.

Future refrerence for thought and others as well: Im not sute where you live, but in many parts of the country you can pick up an older aluminum snowmobile trailer very cheap, as the trend is moving more and more to enclosed units. They weigh almost nothing and most have torsion axles with externally greaseable hubs. The decks sit above the wheels, but could be narrowed and cut down to fit between them.

One of these years I'll have to join you guys on this Drag Week adventure. Good luck!

[jayb]

I was there that first year when you started developing problems with your hitch, at Columbus I think. I let you use a telescoping mirror I had, so you could see what was happening underneath. I'm still waiting on the check for tool rental.

You may be waiting a while longer 

[cjshaker]

The tongue to axle length has only been shortened by 1', which I think will have a negligible impact. The tongue is still long, which is the important part. I cut away about 120 pounds. The box will only extend up about 6" at the most; just enough room for the slicks and my tool box to fit. I've seen the aluminum snowmobile trailers; they're much bigger and heavier than this will be, more cumbersome, and not cheap. I have $250 in this right now (the purchase price), and since I already have most of the material to finish it, I estimate about another $100 to put into it. That's pretty cheap for a reliable trailer, I think.

[Heo]

Woow 104 F inside the garage....we dont get 104
outside.... ever...Can i please rent your old barn
thats closer to the road.....Damed i can rent your
dragweek trailer and live in that after drag week
is ower

[cjshaker]

Heo, the temps outside have been about 90*, but with 80+ percent humidity and full sun. The garage acts like an oven when it's like that. It doesn't cool off much till about 2 hours before sunset, so I work in short stretches until then, and keep a water hose handy  The old barn needs some work to really be usable for anything other than storage, but I can't even find the time to finish the inside of my garage. Ugh! I'm sure the bats in it wouldn't mind the company though...lol!! I actually thought about using the trailer as it was, for a sleeping quarters during drag week, but then everything would have to sit out, and I'm not so sure both my Son and I could fit in it.

Tonight I actually weighed what I cut off the trailer and it was only 85 lbs. But that's still a pretty significant amount and should make it much easier on the hitch. I still have 6' from ball to axle, so I don't think that will be an issue. Plenty of guys are using smaller and shorter trailers on Drag Week. After coming to some final design ideas tonight, I think my plan for the hitch will work out pretty well. Nobody ever accused me of being a fast worker, but I try to do quality work. Mostly because I hate doing something twice!

[Rory428]

Back in the late 70s, I owned a 70 Mach 1 that was equipped with a trailer hitch. It was fairly light duty looking, it had a large H shaped bracket that attatched to the rear bumper with 1 bolt per side, and a middle  member that held the hitch ball, and ran under the gas tank, and up to the floor pan between the rear shock upper mounts, ahead of the gas tank. I recall seeing a fair number of similar  hitches on Mustangs around that time. Pretty light duty, but I did tow a utility trailer with a 428 I had bought, in it thru a few towns without incident. You will be towing much further, but likely with much less weight. Does your Mustang have a fold down rear seat? For years I drove my street/strip 69 & 70 Mustangs to and from the dragstrip with 1 slick on the fold down seat, with other in the trunk (8 1/2x26-15, or 10 x28-15), and a tool box and small floor jack in the trunk.

[cjshaker]

Rory, I do have the fold down seat, and I considered just packing everything in the car like Kevin did in his Shelby last year, but I'll have my Son with me, and I'll admit to not wanting to scuff up my interior panels trying to stuff big tires and parts in there.

I originally was going to use the bumper as a support, but Mustang bumpers are so flimsy and thin that I just didn't feel confident that it would hold up to 1000 miles of road use in one week. And I do understand that it will take a small beating with the short trailer. I went through a few ideas before coming up with something that I feel confident in. I'll post some pictures tonight of how it's going to be made.

[mike7570]

Back in the late 70s, I owned a 70 Mach 1 that was equipped with a trailer hitch. It was fairly light duty looking, it had a large H shaped bracket that attatched to the rear bumper with 1 bolt per side, and a middle  member that held the hitch ball, and ran under the gas tank, and up to the floor pan between the rear shock upper mounts, ahead of the gas tank. I recall seeing a fair number of similar  hitches on Mustangs around that time. Pretty light duty, but I did tow a utility trailer with a 428 I had bought, in it thru a few towns without incident. You will be towing much further, but likely with much less weight. Does your Mustang have a fold down rear seat? For years I drove my street/strip 69 & 70 Mustangs to and from the dragstrip with 1 slick on the fold down seat, with other in the trunk (8 1/2x26-15, or 10 x28-15), and a tool box and small floor jack in the trunk.

My brother had one of those on his '69 Shelby, we put it on to tow our 18' jet boat to the river. The Shelby would get rubber shifting to 2nd while towing the boat, LOL.
We would routinely run it up to 100mph crossing the desert while towing the boat. It did have a good tandem axle trailer. (Things we did when we were young) 

[cjshaker]

Nothing much to report, the pictures are pretty self explanatory. Still waiting on the 4.30 gears, which should be here Saturday or Monday. I think I'll be switching to QA-1 rear shocks as well, to pick up some travel. The Calverts bottom out on anything but a mild bump.



I just need to brace the part that goes up under the body, so it won't flex, then finish welding it and the hitch will be done. I think I'll be able to tow my car hauler with this set-up

[Nightmist66]

I didn't see it in the picture, but you may want to think about adding a drain hole in the bottom of your housing while the third member is out. Just a couple minutes with a drill and tap. I made mine 3/8" NPT and epoxied a strong magnet to the pipe plug. You could also buy a weld bung and go that route too. The drain is VERY convenient.

Just food for thought. Keep up the nice work.

[Bolted to Floor]

Car hauler  that could be a little optimistic.  :: Looks good though. And the bumper still fits? Did ya remove the exhaust just to have a little more work space?

[cjshaker]

Jared, I've been thinking about adding one. I was stupid for not putting it in when I got the rear. I hate trying to weld overhead though, so your idea of a thread in unit might be a good idea.

John, yes, I removed the exhaust for easy working. It comes out really easy since I used the band style clamps. And the bumper will mount over the bar, just as it normally would be. It will just be spaced out a 1/2". It might look a bit goofy that way, but with this set-up I didn't have to modify or drill any holes in the car and it's easily removable.

[AlanCasida]

I just use a 1/8" NPT hole the housings on my cars. It doesn't drain as fast but you get more threads in the housing. My routine is once it's up in the air I remove the drain plug first and by the time I get the tires off and the axles pulled it's all drained out.

[cjshaker]

That's a good idea, Alan and Jared. I think I may just go that route. Thanks.

[Heo]

You can also use a...."rivet nut" its like a poprivet but a nut
just smear a Little epoxy on it before you rivet it to be sure it
not leak

[cjshaker]

I know this is boring compared to what the other guys are doing, but hey, at least I'm making the effort to go to Drag Week
I finally finished the hitch up and got it mounted. I braced the rear area that bolts to the trunk floor so that it couldn't flex. It's pretty tight between the gas tank and rear valance, so any flex there wasn't going to cut it. I didn't have to modify the car or drill any holes anywhere, so I'm happy with it and have complete confidence that it'll hold up to anything I throw at it. I put another plate inside the trunk so it's pretty darn strong. I also got the drain hole drilled and tapped for the rear. Still waiting on the gears though, and the QA-1 rear shocks.

In keeping with the "old school" format, the hitch is actually a vintage Draw Tite unit that was made for a '65 Ford Galaxie station wagon . It's even stamped on the unit. The drawback to the whole thing is that it's heavy, to the tune of 25 lbs. I just look at it as ballast for traction...lol

[Pentroof]

I like the clean installation. 

[Joe-JDC]

Congratulations.  That is a neat install.  I towed a U-Haul trailer with my '66 Mustang back in '67 when I was going to my first PCS move in the USAF.  They had a clamp-on contraption that hooked over the bumper near the attaching bolts and it was a harrowing experience.  I think I bent my bumper like a pretzel because the tongue weight caused the clamps to rotate and twist the bumper.  Something like you have built would have been much stronger.  Good luck during drag week.  Joe-JDC

[turbohunter]

Yes, nice little install.
As clean as the rest of your car.
Will be following closely.
Best of luck.

[cjshaker]

Thanks, everyone. I tend to go a little overboard, but I'm ok with that Luck favors the prepared, and all that junk...

I got the QA-1 shocks today and got them installed. Very nice pieces I might add, and they give me some room for suspension movement under compression. I like the double adjustability (I don't think that's even a word, but I'm using it anyway). I also got the gears today, so I'm setting them up and will hopefully get them installed tomorrow or Thursday. Then I need to put some miles on them to break them in, then a fluid change and the car should be good to go.

[AlanCasida]

Very clean! Before I decided to put everything in my trunk I started with the very same hitch I got off of Ebay and pretty much the same trailer. I bet that aftermarket Galaxie part should be good for a tenth or two. 

[cobracammer]

That Car is beautiful.  I'm sure I've said it before, but you need to hear it again.  LOL

[Stangman]

Yes very clean and I will be following also.

[cjshaker]

QA-1 shocks installed. I'm really anxious to see what a difference these make on the street.



And the differential is finished. I went ahead and touched it up with a fresh coat of expoxy primer and some red oxide and cast iron paint, because you can't be fast unless everything looks good   Ready to put in. Ugh, it's always easier taking them off. Hopefully I'll have the rear finished up tomorrow night.

[Nightmist66]

That car is super clean, Doug. Parts look great.

I do have a question though. In the last picture, I notice the pinion nut is flush or slightly past the pinion shaft. It looks like you may be using a Daytona support with a standard yoke. The yokes for the Daytona setup are machined .250" deeper to compensate. If you don't want to buy another yoke, you can machine it down in a lathe. I've done that before. Also, are you using the solid pinion bearing spacer or a crush sleeve. I much like the solid spacer myself. It is more durable and once you set your preload, you can change yokes, seals, etc as much as you want without having to worry about anything.

Keep up the excellent work. Can't wait to see this in DW.

[cjshaker]

Jared, it is indeed a Strange aluminum Daytona support. I had purchased the case, support, bearings and yoke from Strange, last year, and a locker from a forum member. I just needed the gears to finish it. I set it up exactly like my previous one. If I had changed the yoke, it would have changed my driveshaft length. It would have only been a 1/4", but I try to keep as much spline contact as I can, for driveshaft stability. My front yoke is a billet piece, so it has full splines. I've never had a problem with the rear yoke, so I kept it the same. I do use solid spacers for the reasons you mentioned. Now I've got a spare if I need it, but with 3.89 gearing.

I've already got plans for future use with this unit, because my next set-up will be a through bolted large bearing case for 35 spline axles. But that's another story

[Nightmist66]

Hi Doug, I may not have been very clear explaining the yoke. If you use the Daytona style, which you do, The yoke is machined .250" deeper inside where the nut seats to the yoke. It is deeper in that hole. No need to change yokes and worry about driveshaft length. The overall length of the yoke is the same, Just cut deeper where the nut sits.

Would love to see that new setup too.

[afret]

Hey, it looks like you're just about ready for Drag Week.     It should be a lot of fun.

How much shorter are the new shocks compared to the Calvert shocks?  According to the specs I found, the QA1 are supposed to be 11.5" compressed and the Ranchos (Calvert) are 11.625"?  Is there really only a 1/8" difference in compressed height?

[cjshaker]

How much shorter are the new shocks compared to the Calvert shocks?  According to the specs I found, the QA1 are supposed to be 11.5" compressed and the Ranchos (Calvert) are 11.625"?  Is there really only a 1/8" difference in compressed height?

Earl, I'm not sure where the info on the Calvert shocks came from, but it's wrong. Maybe you were looking at the style meant for earlier Mustangs? From what I understand, they are a bit shorter and would probably work better than what they say the '69 calls for. The QA-1 shocks are 12.5" compressed and the Calverts are 15.5" compressed, for a difference of 3". I measured from middle of bushing to middle of bushing because that will be the actual distance that is usable. That would probably account for the extra 1" in the QA-1's info. Because my car is mainly street driven, I wanted the double adjustable shocks, and Calvert doesn't offer that.

[cjshaker]

Hi Doug, I may not have been very clear explaining the yoke. If you use the Daytona style, which you do, The yoke is machined .250" deeper inside where the nut seats to the yoke. It is deeper in that hole. No need to change yokes and worry about driveshaft length. The overall length of the yoke is the same, Just cut deeper where the nut sits.

I understand now, Jared. To be honest, I wasn't aware there was a difference. The nut sits flush with the end of the pinion shaft, so I'm not sure what would be accomplished by cutting it .250" deeper. Is there an advantage to that? My first one was bought complete through Currie, the second I bought the parts through Strange, and they are both set up the same way. This one is the same. So if there is an issue, I'm not aware of it.

[cjshaker]

I got the rear finished up tonight, and I can say one thing for sure....that will be the LAST time I install a center section, by myself, laying on my back!!!!

[Nightmist66]

Doug, I can't say for sure about an advantage with cutting it deeper. I just brought it up because I have never seen a pinion nut at the end of the yoke before. I have seen quite a few 9 inches, set up 8.8s, and done numerous pinion seals on anything from a 7.5-10.5" Ford and occaisional Chrysler and GMs. I haven't seen any of those that didn't have at least 2 1/2- 3 threads showing. Maybe it is just the peace of mind factor for me. Integrity wise, it should work though.

At any rate, best of luck with the new setup and have fun at DW!

I apologize to everyone if I have annoyed with my ramblings, I'll shut up now......

[cjshaker]

I apologize to everyone if I have annoyed with my ramblings, I'll shut up now......

Not at all, Jared. That's an interesting observation. I'll probably look into it a bit more when I get the chance. We're all here to learn and share.

[afret]

How much shorter are the new shocks compared to the Calvert shocks?  According to the specs I found, the QA1 are supposed to be 11.5" compressed and the Ranchos (Calvert) are 11.625"?  Is there really only a 1/8" difference in compressed height?

Earl, I'm not sure where the info on the Calvert shocks came from, but it's wrong. Maybe you were looking at the style meant for earlier Mustangs? From what I understand, they are a bit shorter and would probably work better than what they say the '69 calls for. The QA-1 shocks are 12.5" compressed and the Calverts are 15.5" compressed, for a difference of 3". I measured from middle of bushing to middle of bushing because that will be the actual distance that is usable. That would probably account for the extra 1" in the QA-1's info. Because my car is mainly street driven, I wanted the double adjustable shocks, and Calvert doesn't offer that.

It's kinda weird.  I think Calvert offers the same rear shock for '65 to '70 Mustangs.  It's about the same as your QA1 at about 12.5" from rubber bushing to rubber bushing.  I was looking for a bit shorter shock since I have to drive quite a bit on bumpy dirt roads here and only have about 2" of compression before  bottoming out.  Oh well.

[cjshaker]

Earl, your rear suspension must be a bit different than mine. I have the Calvert suspension, but the shocks they sent were 15 1/2". That only gave me an inch before bottoming out. The QA-1 shocks give me more travel. I also have the 1" lowered springs, so I can't imagine why yours would be so tight.

[Qikbbstang]

Doug noticed you mentioned not running the heater & hoses... On my Gen 1 Lightning I had my heater core crap so I bypassed it in a loop. The SOB started running hot in short order in spite of the coolers and HD cooling.. I needed to restrict the water flow on the heater circuits loop'd hose and she returned to running normal temp..
   Just keep in mind that looping the heater circuit may alter cooling.
            Decades ago I was running a late night run from Miami to Tampa (swamp, mines and sugar cane fields) in SVO Mustang, water temp started soaring into HOT. I rolled all the windows down, set heater on max/vent and made the remainder of the trip with temp normal... Next morning fired up and HOT problem never happened again -- I figured the thermostat stuck?
   

[cjshaker]

BB, as I said before, I never used the heater, which means the heater hose valve was always closed, not allowing water to circulate in the heater core. It should not make a difference. I'll be putting some miles on it to break in the rear gears, so I'll find out if there is any difference before Drag Week, but I don't expect there to be any. Modular engines use a totally different type of cooling system.

[afret]

You'll be fine without the heater.  I've had the heater removed for years with no effect on engine cooling.

Are you going to be able to make some passes at a track before Drag Week?

[cjshaker]

Are you going to be able to make some passes at a track before Drag Week?

I doubt it. I still need to change my headlight switch (the original switch with built in breaker pops when they're on high and I have an NOS one to replace it with), put a new ignition box in, break in the rear gears and then change to synthetic gear fluid and order some extra pushrods. Then I need to get back on the trailer to make it an enclosed unit. Then I need to do a couple things to the truck before hauling it down to Columbus. Basically, Drag Week will amount to a sorting out of my suspension and traction issues. I don't want to hurt the toploader during the week because it's the only big in/out that I have. If I had a Jerico, it wouldn't be an issue. I'm hoping, if I make it to Friday, that I'll be able to let it fly then.

And I had forgotten that I've already driven the car a few times after removing the hoses. I did not notice any difference in cooling.

[427Fastback]

Love the car...Its the details.....My 67(SB) has heater delete in it and its not a issue.The 68 (427 car) is also going heater delete both cars using oem parts.I don't expect a problem with the 427 car and there is no issues with the 67..

Heater delete was available in Mustangs for quite a few years.After 68 its pretty easy to convert them and have it look original..

Good luck at Drag Week...

[cjshaker]

Well today isn't exactly a good update. I'm having problems with the car quitting on me. A quick review of the problem....

Some weeks ago, I was coming home after about a 60-70 mile round trip. 3 miles from home, the car just died. It was dusk so I quickly got the truck and trailer and trailered it home. The next day it started right up and ran fine. Not knowing what the problem was, I drove it several times again (only about 10 miles, max) and never had the problem.

Fast forward to Friday...I went to take the car for a spin to check the shocks and rear. I was just pulling out of the driveway when it quit again. No restart. After some quick checks, it appeared to be the box, which I had suspected all along (it's a 15 year old MSD 6AL). So today I tried to start it and still nothing, so I replaced the old box with a brand new MSD Digital 6AL. It fired right up, so I took it for about a 20 mile drive to break in the gears. No problems...until I got home. It was sitting for about 5 minutes while I checked the hitch and trailer hook-up. Went to start it to back it in the garage when it suddenly quit again. CRAP, now what?!!

Did a quick check by jumpering the pick-up wires and was getting a really weak erratic spark. Most of the time it would not even produce a spark. I thought maybe the coil was at fault, so I replaced it with a brand new MSD Blaster 2, same as the old one. No start. Surely it couldn't be the box again? I threw another NEW MSD Digital 6 box on and it started right up. To double check, I threw the FIRST new box back on...and it started right up.

Now I'm back to square one. Tomorrow I'll recheck the ignition box ground and run it straight to the battery. I currently have it grounded to the bell where the engine ground strap is. I'll also check both engine grounds and run the ignition hot wire straight from the solenoid. I currently have it coming from the fuse block. That will totally isolate the entire ignition wiring from anything else on the car and eliminate it as a possibility. It doesn't seem to be the pick-up at this point, but who knows for sure. I did check fuel, and that's not it.

In the 15 years since I restored the car, I have never had this problem. I need to get this sorted out, pronto. I obviously can't drive it during Drag Week this way.

If anyone has suggestions that I'm overlooking, feel free to SPEAK UP

[mmason]

I had the same problem. I replaced everything, did not help. It ended up being a bad ground.

[turbohunter]

Simple stuff first.
Grounds, loose wires, stupid stuff.

[cjshaker]

Grounds will be the first thing I check today.

On a more positive note, I love the QA-1 shocks. They made a huge difference with the added travel. The car was much more pleasant to drive with no harsh jolts over bumps. Once I get the tuning perfect, I think they will make excellent double duty shocks, for street or strip. And the new gearing was also a BIG improvement. The car takes off much easier and smoother and I don't have to keep the car at 55-60 mph just to keep it happy in 4th. I knew this was something that I should have done years ago!

Earl, here's a shot of the amount of travel that is available with the QA-1 shocks. This is at ride height, after coming back from a cruise, so the suspension is settled here. I still don't understand why you have less room than I have. I believe, like me, you also have the Calvert spring and shock plate, so that isn't it.

[427Fastback]

The MSD box in my 73 390 F-250 did the same thing but it was the boxes fault..Prior to that and just after I assembled the truck it would randomly die like you shut off the key.I chased the problem for a while as it would restart after a bit..I stripped my 71 and put everything into my 73 and the 71 had no such issues.After some thought I realized that the 73 still had the original 4 terminal solenoid on it(I hadn't changed it) and if I am correct the "I" on the solenoid is for ign...I put the one from the 71 on the truck and the problem was resolved....

It is the only time I have had or seen such a failure

[cjshaker]

After messing with the ignition problem all day, I MAY have gained some progress, but I won't know until I get some miles on it.

What I found was, no matter what I tried, I kept getting a very weak erratic spark when jumping the trigger wires. I tried moving the ground to the battery negative cable directly and no change. I thought maybe the extension for the trigger wires may be faulty or have a bad connection since I left the old one in place, so I removed it. I noticed a bit of corrosion on the small prongs in the connector, so I was feeling somewhat confident that that may be causing an issue. So I replaced it with the one that came with the new box....and no change. Still very erratic, if I got a spark at all.

Feeling a bit flustered as to why this was happening, I considered the fact that the trigger wires ran parallel with the coil wires. I wondered if there was some interference going on there, so I ran both the old and new extensions from the box, outside of the car, across the engine compartment and finally to the distributor. Suddenly I had a good strong CONSISTENT spark. So I removed one of the extensions, rerouted the wires through a different hole in the firewall, down the right side of the engine (opposite side of the coil wires) and hooked it up. I still had a good strong consistent spark.

The car fired right up, but I have no way of knowing if that solved the problem yet. I was going to go for another test run, but now rain has popped up, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow night.

I made a short video showing how the spark was acting. While I typically got some erratic spark while jumping the trigger wires, I was getting nothing while I shot this video. But you can see that I was getting great spark whenever I grounded the trigger wire to any part of the chassis or engine. There's nothing in MSD's instructions that says the box must be grounded, and based on my findings after rerouting the wires, it doesn't seem to need it. I have my box mounted under the heater box inside the car, and it has ran that way flawlessly for over 15 years, so I'm still puzzled as to why I'm suddenly having this issue.

I have one working theory; that the old box was not affected by the wires running parallel. But the box went bad after 15 years. Then, with the new DIGITAL box, it MAY have issues with the wires running parallel. It's a long shot, and I'm not even sure that I believe it, but I have no other explanation at this point. Anyone else willing to take a stab at a theory?

The video showing the spark problem...
https://youtu.be/85PLiA8qIr0

How my box is mounted...



Finally, a shot of the installed differential with 4.30 gears.

[ToddK]

I once had similar problems to you with a Digital 6AL box, whereas the regular 6AL worked okay. Moved the pickup and trigger wires apart and it solved the problem. On cars I've since built with the MSD box installed inside the car, I have used the shielded MSD pickup wires to guard against signal interference. I also route the pickup and coil trigger wires away from each other, for the same reason. Not had any issues since doing so.

[Barry_R]

Obviously cannot promise anything, but a good friend of mine is fixated on keeping trigger wires isolated from other electrical leads.  He makes me route them on the opposite side of the throttle body and as far as possible from the injector harness.

Pretty tough guy to argue with.  Some of his "work" is in orbit, other bits are in airlines at 35,000 feet, or plodding around under the ocean....

[cjshaker]

Todd, that gives me some hope that I've moved in the right direction. I'll find out soon enough.

And Barry, if I was trusting my life to something in space, or near space, or under the ocean, I believe everything would be gold plated and double shielded...and ran through special conduits...lol Aerospace engineers are a nit-picky bunch, and for good reason.

[thatdarncat]

Just for FYI purposes, MSD makes a shielded pickup wire. Part #8862.

https://www.msdperformance.com/products/accessories/harnesses/parts/8862

Hope you get the problem solved.

[cjshaker]

Thanks, Kevin. I wasn't aware of that until Todd said something. I think I'll pick one up just to stay on the safe side.

[cjshaker]

Well as it turns out, the wires weren't the issue, at least not the whole issue.
I drove the car back to work during lunch yesterday, to get some break-in miles on the gears, and it wouldn't start after work. I messed with the wiring, checking stuff for about an hour, and made no progress. By that time the battery was done, so I called the wife to bring my jump pack and some spare parts.

I had replaced this pickup just last year, so it wasn't my first thought as to being the problem, especially since I got a good ohm reading on it. But I was down to it being the only thing I hadn't tried replacing. So I pulled the distributor out and was going to replace the pickup. While I did that, my boss was leaving for home and stopped to talk to me and see if he could help, which he couldn't. Of course, being sidetracked while talking to him and working at the same time, I had a brain lapse and didn't note where the rotor was pointed. So after he left, and after replacing the pickup, I pulled #1 plug and went to find TDC. Luckily, being at work, I had the necessary tools. I had my wife stick her finger in the plug hole while I turned it over with a breaker bar.  Bless her heart, she knows nothing about cars, and I could see the fear in her face, not knowing what to expect. Since I needed a laugh, I didn't tell her what to expect either. Needless to say, it was obvious when it came up on the compression stroke, as she jumped back with eyes as big as a silver dollar. We both laughed about that.....well, I did anyway.

So I got it back in, buttoned everything back up and it fired right away. I didn't have a timing light and that's when those distributor marks came in really handy. It drove back home fine, but I didn't get back till about 7:00. So I let it sit while I worked on getting the trailer hookup wired, occasionally starting it and letting it run for a bit to see if the problem would reoccur, which it didn't. I hope that was the issue, but again, only time will tell. I HATE intermittent problems because they're so darn hard to track down. Hopefully, that's the last of this.

Since the wife didn't seem interested in making me supper for some reason, I heated some leftovers up and relaxed the rest of the night.

[jayb]

I'll bet it was the pickup.  Your wife sounds like a trooper, take her out for a nice dinner when you get back from Drag Week.  I know from experience that this helps smooth things over 

[cjshaker]

I already have plans of treating her to the best prime rib in the state, tomorrow night. She actually loved being able to help, because she usually can't. She is a saint for putting up with my car hobby and likes to be involved as much as she can.

[Stangman]

I hope that the pickup was the problem. About the calvert shocks I just experienced the same problem they made me measure from the shock plate to the upper shock mount where it goes through the floor at ride hieght and it was exactly 16 inches. They sent me shocks that onlt had 1 inch of travel, I called them and they sent me the shocks for 65-66 mustangs and now I have 2.5 inches, by the way most know but I have a 67 fastback. They said it was either one or the other, and my luck of course it was the other. Car is looking good it wont be long now   

[cjshaker]

From what I've seen and heard, the shocks they recommend for '67-'70 Mustangs are always too long. But they have excellent customer service, so it's never an issue exchanging them. 16" is pretty much exactly what mine measured also.

[Jim Comet]

After looking at the shielded wire photo from Kevin's link, I remembered that I had to replace the connector on both my MDS billiet distributor and the wire that runs to the 6AL box. It was giving me intermittent no start issues due to poor connection. After replacing it, it never happened again. Jim

[cjshaker]

I think the ignition problem is gone now. I spent last night and today going over the valves, putting in new plugs and valve cover gaskets and verifying the timing. I also took the carbs off and made some changes to them.



I had them tuned pretty good for low speed, mid throttle, transition and WOT (at least I thought), but the idle left a bit to be desired. You had to 'blip' the throttle about every 10-15 seconds to keep it from dying. It wasn't a problem because I never sit in traffic long, but I wanted to cure that for the DW drive. Some adjustment of the secondary throttle plates and re-tuning the primaries took care of that. But what I also found was that my primaries were only opening up about 3/4 or a little over, from full open. How that changed, I have no idea, because I adjusted that when I put the engine in and first got it running and tuned. I don't know how long its been that way, but when I took it for a shake down run today, I could feel the difference when I gave it a short shot of WOT. I don't want to run it hard until I feel the gears are broke in, so It's only been very short hits to see how it's running. Should be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes in my MPH with the gears....and having full throttle

I spent the rest of today cleaning up all the wiring from messing with the ignition, removing some unnecessary wiring and tucking everything away from the clutch and brake pedals to avoid having any problems with something getting pinched or shorted. Other than wiring for the trailer, a fluids change and quick clean up, it should be ready.

[Stangman]

Curious as to what you did to secondary plates and I also notice were you have you temp sender is that accurate in that spot.or is it fine cause you have a  regular engine fan that spot won't work right for a temp sender for electric fans, or at least that's what I thought because I wanted to put sender there and thought not to

[cjshaker]

Curious as to what you did to secondary plates and I also notice were you have you temp sender is that accurate in that spot.or is it fine cause you have a  regular engine fan that spot won't work right for a temp sender for electric fans, or at least that's what I thought because I wanted to put sender there and thought not to

My engine doesn't make a lot of vacuum due to the cam, so the venturi signal is weak at idle. To get enough air into the engine for it to idle, I needed to have the primaries open too far, which gets into the transition circuit and makes the idle mixture screws almost useless. There's an adjustment screw underneath the carb base, on the secondaries shaft, which is used to keep them from closing tight and sticking. They can be used to open the secondary throttle plates slightly, allowing more air into the engine at idle. So to remedy my problem, I opened the secondaries a little bit so that I could close the primaries which makes the idle circuit function again.  In my case, I started with 2 1/2 turns open, but that was too much and the engine would not idle down far enough. I had to take them back off and back them off 1 turn, for a total adjustment of 1 1/2 turns open. That cured my weak acting mixture screws so that I could adjust them and get the idle to where it will not load up and die.

As for the temp sender, it works fine when I do it this way. One of the reasons is that I drill a small hole in the top of the thermostat to let air pass when it's filled. This also lets a bit of heated coolant through when the engine is running, and it's enough to give me an accurate reading while it's closed, and of course it works perfectly once the thermostat is opened. I can watch the engine temp come up slowly, so I know it's getting a good reading even while the thermostat is closed. I don't see why it wouldn't work with an electric fan set-up, although I might make sure that the thermostat is of a low enough temp that it wouldn't close when you want the fans on. But like in my case, it would probably work just fine if a small hole were used to allow a bit of coolant through.

[Barry_R]

Sound like you are ready to go!

Have a great time and keep us posted 

[Stangman]

Thanks CJ  keep up the good work

[cjshaker]

Sound like you are ready to go!

Have a great time and keep us posted 

Almost, besides an oil and rear gear lube change, wiring for the trailer, adjusting the headlights, fix my battery holddown and cleaning the Magnums with BF Goodrich tires...it's ready

I got the engine buttoned back up and everything under the hood finished.



So I concentrated on getting the truck ready today. After that was finished, I started filling my tool boxes, what-not and thingys tub and gathering my spare parts together.

I'm guessing I'll be the only one there with an FE powered car hauler...



Tools, essentials and parts gathering...



Now I have to get my butt back on the trailer and get it finished, which I haven't done anything to since cutting it up and welding it back together. I need to wire it and make it enclosed. That's the last of the work to be done, so I should be able to knock that out this week.

[GJCAT427]

Doug, just a reminder, Take a spare fuel pump! I`m still screwing around with the Galaxie since Beaver Springs! Good luck.

[jayb]

That FE powered car hauler really classes up your effort, I think.  Deja vu...

[cjshaker]

Doug, just a reminder, Take a spare fuel pump! I`m still screwing around with the Galaxie since Beaver Springs! Good luck.

It's sitting on the starter box, in the picture.
My list of spare parts:
Starter
Alternator
Regulator
Ignition Box (2)
Distributor
Pick-up (a double backup..lol)
Coil
Fuel Pump
Water Pump
Rockers
Rocker Shafts
Belts
Complete Center Section

[Stangman]

A long block and you can have a spare motor. Ha ha

[afret]

I don't know how picky the tech guys will be for Drag Week but one thing I notice in your photos is that you still have rubber fuel lines to the carbs.  NHRA tech only allows for 12" total of rubber fuel line.  I think your car probably has the rubber line going from where the metal fuel line ends where it enters the engine compartment to the fuel pump inlet so you probably are over the 12" limit with the two lines going to the carb. 

It probably wouldn't be too hard to switch the two lines going to the carbs to steel or nylon braided line.  The tech guys probably won't notice being dazzled by how clean your car is     but since you're trying to cover all the bases........

[cjshaker]

A long block and you can have a spare motor. Ha ha

According to the rules, you have to start and end with the same engine. But I don't recall seeing anything about changing them in between..lol

I don't know how picky the tech guys will be for Drag Week but one thing I notice in your photos is that you still have rubber fuel lines to the carbs.  NHRA tech only allows for 12" total of rubber fuel line.  I think your car probably has the rubber line going from where the metal fuel line ends where it enters the engine compartment to the fuel pump inlet so you probably are over the 12" limit with the two lines going to the carb. 

It probably wouldn't be too hard to switch the two lines going to the carbs to steel or nylon braided line.  The tech guys probably won't notice being dazzled by how clean your car is     but since you're trying to cover all the bases........

Hmmm, nice catch, Earl. I do have rubber from the fuel pump to the line, and each line going to each carb is 6". With the 2" at the tank, that gives me a total of 20". I'm hoping the tech guys won't make an issue of it, so for now, it'll stay the way it is. Maybe I'll make up a 'special' tape measure and offer it to them if they want to measure.  

[fastback 427]

Don't bother making up a special tape, I'll loan you the one I gave my wife.

[AlanCasida]

Hmmm, nice catch, Earl. I do have rubber from the fuel pump to the line, and each line going to each carb is 6". With the 2" at the tank, that gives me a total of 20". I'm hoping the tech guys won't make an issue of it, so for now, it'll stay the way it is. Maybe I'll make up a 'special' tape measure and offer it to them if they want to measure.
[/quote]

If it is anything like last year, all they were interested in on my car was if the horn, lights and turn signals worked. They didn't even have me open the hood! My guess is they saw I didn't have a roll bar/cage so they weren't going to spend a lot of time on me. Tech/registration Sunday is a very, very long day for the tech people. 

[cjshaker]

Don't bother making up a special tape, I'll loan you the one I gave my wife.

LMAO!! Now that's funny! I'll need one that's stable and doesn't fluctuate, Jaime

And Alan, that's good to know. Judging by the lines I've seen in the pictures, tech day does indeed look like a very long day!

[AlanCasida]

According to the rules, you have to start and end with the same engine. But I don't recall seeing anything about changing them in between..lol

I think that rule was implemented after 2014 when some guys torched their LS motor at Tulsa. They got on the phone, located another motor(salvage yard) in Tulsa, rented a uhaul truck and cherry picker and swapped motors there in pits. Not a fan at all of LS motors but that pretty ambitious of them.  

[cjshaker]

I managed to get my butt in gear and get this far on the trailer tonight. I was planning on using aluminum sheet, but I knew that would take too long, so I grabbed some 1/4" plywood and threw this together. Still need to make a flip down tailgate for it, add a couple of upper braces, primer and paint it, and I'm just going to use a nice tarp to cover it all. It only adds about 40lbs to the weight, and since all my tools will be in the car, the trailer is still pretty light. Should have it finished up tomorrow night.



And I think this speaks for itself  ...

[jayb]

"Do not break seal"??  More optimism, Doug?

[cjshaker]

Yes sir. Except for a couple more sets of plugs, my goal is to NOT have to open this box.

[My427stang]

Good luck Doug!

[mmason]

Are you planning on doing daily posts for drag week or one big one at the end? I hope things go well for you and you have some fun.

[Barry_R]

I'll be cheering for ya from the sidelines!
Good luck!

[cjshaker]

Thanks for the well wishes, everyone. I'll take all I can get, and I'm not apposed to a little bit of Lady Luck smiling on me either.

As for the updates, I would really like to help keep everyone updated on Jay's, Alan's, Kevin's and mine's progress, which I can do from my phone. Pictures might not be so easy unless I steal the wife's laptop and take it along, which I just might do. I'm a bit of an insomniac, so I'll have to find something to do at night. As far as I know, the only FE's that will be there will be Jay, Jack Miller's Mustang, his Son's Cougar and my car.

The trailer is pretty much finished, but rain has kept me from finishing it up tonight. My only empty bay is taken up by a friends Ford 8N tractor that I'm working on, so I've been keeping the trailer in the car hauler and hauling it out between rains. I have tomorrow off so I need to bust butt and finish the bracing (so the tires don't go bouncing around and try to exit the back) and re-wire it. I REALLY wanted to paint the Ford logo on the side, but I don't think that's going to happen now.

Here it is as it sits...



I still have to wire the car for the trailer hookup also, so that needs to get finished. At least I can do that inside because they're still calling for rain tomorrow. On the bright side, weather here has been miserably hot and humid ALL summer long, but starting Sunday, this rain is supposed to be moved out and cooler temps and lower humidity are moving in. Since I live smack dab in the middle of the Drag Week 'circle', that's a good indicator.

[My427stang]

Doug, aside from the tire, any casualties?  Impressive run for the week, just wondering if the emergency box was cracked open

[cjshaker]

I have to admit, the box was opened on the 2nd day, but only because I was dumb enough to put my spare 124 plugs in there, which I realized I needed at the track if I was going to bump my timing up. The 45's I usually use on the street always have a good heat indicator when I check them, but when I checked them after a run or two, they showed that they were a bit hot and the engine would cut out a bit at the top end, so I switched to the 124's. In my previous experience, with my engine anyway, the 124's are a bit cold for the street and contribute to a bit of a miss at low speeds after they have some miles on them, so I ran the 45's during the drive, then switched to the 124's before racing. Absolutely no issues when I did it that way.

But other than that, I didn't need the box at all. Except for the starter, which is the first issue I've ever had with any OEM design starter, I had zero issues. This is the 3rd Powermaster starter I've had, and it's the first one that's done this to me. I still have no problems with it at home, but I'm not typically driving more than 20 miles before it's allowed to cool for a while. Still, I'm looking at replacing it with the RobMc starter.

I still have a small box with spare ignition parts and tools to change them, that I keep in the trunk, but I now have the confidence to drive the car anywhere. I loved the racing part, but I think I enjoyed the driving part just as much. Lots of nice old country highways, and the chance to spend 5 days with my Son, which I don't get very often. He's stationed at Camp Legeune in NC, being a Corpsman.

[My427stang]

That's awesome.  Especially the time with your son.  My daughter is still in college and lives with us, but even the Sat morning Cars and Coffee Cruise that I can get her out of bed is rare, but a blast.  I can relate to the time spent, and with what your son chose for a career, even more so.

I'll tell you, I also can dig the long rides, I basically try to do a couple of hours around Nebraska if I pull it out of the garage.  I find myself itching to see what it'll do on the track, but not nearly as much as the driving back roads from Omaha to Sioux City, our out to central NE. 

Good work man, hard to call the starter a "break" in my book.  Non-drive parts that fail is just bad luck, the hard parts hanging in there shows the car is built right.