TRW Pistons 2217P

[pclowes]

I have a set of Standard bore (4.050) TRW Pistons #2217P purchased around 1978. They are flat top with 4 eyebrows. 

Does anyone have any specs on these?  Looking for compression height, dome volume (eyebrows), deck height, area above the top ring and the recommended skirt to bore clearance.

Not sure how to read the part number.  I believe they are forged (smooth inside) .  If I knew how to read the part number I think that could be verified.

Hoping that someone may have access to an old catalog.  I can measure and calculate all of the info except the type (cast or forged) if I have to, but it would make things a little easier if someone has it. 

Thanks
Phil

[thatdarncat]

Well, I do happen to have a 1978 TRW catalog in my archives.



Unfortunately it does not show the 2217 piston as having a 4.05 bore, so, a couple questions - Are you sure of the bore size? Are you sure they are TRW pistons? Are you sure of the part number?

The TRW catalog lists a L2217F piston which is a forged piston, but it is 3.68 bore ( or oversizes ) for a 1963 to 1978 Ford 200 cubic inch 6 cylinder. If that turns out to actually be the piston you have I can give you those specs.

In the back of the catalog there is a reverse lookup from piston size and looking under 4.05 bore I don't see anything with a number similar to what you have under the 10 choices.

I did a Google search using 2217P and did get some results as a 4.05 bore FE piston, so your probably correct, just maybe not a TRW piston? I'm guessing they are Sealed Power pistons, they list a 2217P piston. Unfortunately I don't have an old Sealed Power catalog, just Speed Pro. There should be an equivalent TRW piston, but with a different part number.

Anybody with a Sealed Power catalog? 

[pclowes]

Well, I do happen to have a 1978 TRW catalog in my archives.



Unfortunately it does not show the 2217 piston as having a 4.05 bore, so, a couple questions - Are you sure of the bore size? Are you sure they are TRW pistons? Are you sure of the part number?

The TRW catalog lists a L2217F piston which is a forged piston, but it is 3.68 bore ( or oversizes ) for a 1963 to 1978 Ford 200 cubic inch 6 cylinder. If that turns out to actually be the piston you have I can give you those specs.

In the back of the catalog there is a reverse lookup from piston size and looking under 4.05 bore I don't see anything with a number similar to what you have under the 10 choices.

I did a Google search using 2217P and did get some results as a 4.05 bore FE piston, so your probably correct, just maybe not a TRW piston? I'm guessing they are Sealed Power pistons, they list a 2217P piston. Unfortunately I don't have an old Sealed Power catalog, just Speed Pro. There should be an equivalent TRW piston, but with a different part number.

Anybody with a Sealed Power catalog?

In my search I have seen the 2217P tied in with TRW.  I also ran across something that said Sealed Power had absorbed TRW, so maybe that's where the confusion lies.  I know that I purchased them around 78 (maybe 79) and I do remember asking for a forged TRW.  Unfortunately I was only 24 or 25 at the time (young and dumb as they say) so I don't have any literature that came with them.  The pistons do not have TRW on them.  2217P and STD is stamped on the top and 2143-97 (as near as I can read it) is cast or forged into the inside of the dome.  I mostly want to determine if they are forged ( the rest I can figure out ).  I believe if it is smooth inside with no hatch pattern it is most likely forged.  Does anyone know more about determining a forging from a casting?

Thanks for your help
Phil

[FElony]

NHRA lists the 2217 Sealed Power as a legal replacement for 390 Stock class cars, so it's forged and a copy of the 4V piston, which had a shallower dish than the 2V piston.

[pclowes]

NHRA lists the 2217 Sealed Power as a legal replacement for 390 Stock class cars, so it's forged and a copy of the 4V piston, which had a shallower dish than the 2V piston.

Thanks.
 
I just found a new wrinkle.
 
Seven of the eight pistons have 2217P stamped on the top. One of them, which is identical to the others in every other way, has L2291A stamped on the top.  My limited research seems to show this as TRW forged replacement for a 390.  It is probably equal to the Sealed Power 2217P but I am not sure.  All eight have the same forged number 2143-97 inside and all were purchased at the same time from the same place, Reath Automotive in Long Beach Ca (an old name a few of you might recognize). Maybe Sealed Power and TRW were merging at that time?  Not sure. Someone said the L2291A has a heavier pin.  Compared to stock I believe.  Have not checked to see if it is heavier than the 2217P. 

An update to the above.   I find in the Jegs catalog they have a listing for Speed-Pro Pistons for a 390 listed as L2291F.  Also the Vintage Sealed Power catalog shows the wrist pin for a 390 piston as P2217.  Not sure what all this means.  Just more clues.

[pclowes]

More research.

I think the number 2143-97 forged into the inside of the dome is probably a forging number that was used for more than one piston.  I found a thread on FordFE.com where someone actually had that same number that he was chasing.  Kevin also helped him by looking in his 78 TRW catalog and found that the part number should be L2143 AF. I believe that this piston was dished where mine are not (only have valve reliefs). So I'm thinking that my part number should be L2219 A which is the part number stamped on one of the pistons.  Still not sure about the 2217P but I think that I will find it is equal to L2291 because physically they are the same and all have 2143-97 forged inside of the dome. 

I wrote to Sealed Power yesterday.  Hopefully they can clarify things.

[Barry_R]

Sealed Power and TRW performance programs were not merged until the middle 1990s as the two aftermarket operations were acquired by Federal-Mogul.  I am rather familiar with that since I was one of the guys that did it.  I did one TRW branded catalog, and then a TRW/Speed-Pro catalog, then finally a Speed-Pro only catalog over a few year period.

The TRW forged pistons always have the "F" after the base part number.  Prior to the 90s, Speed-Pro/Sealed Power purchased forged pistons from TRW and reboxed them using their own part numbers.  That's why the parts seem identical but the stamped numbers are different.

On older stuff that smooth interior surface with no sharp edges is normally a good giveaway that you are looking at a forged piston.  Cast pistons most often have a bunch of hash marks and criss cross patterns on flat surfaces - which are used to help the filling characteristics of the mold they are made with.

[pclowes]

Sealed Power and TRW performance programs were not merged until the middle 1990s as the two aftermarket operations were acquired by Federal-Mogul.  I am rather familiar with that since I was one of the guys that did it.  I did one TRW branded catalog, and then a TRW/Speed-Pro catalog, then finally a Speed-Pro only catalog over a few year period.

The TRW forged pistons always have the "F" after the base part number.  Prior to the 90s, Speed-Pro/Sealed Power purchased forged pistons from TRW and reboxed them using their own part numbers.  That's why the parts seem identical but the stamped numbers are different.

On older stuff that smooth interior surface with no sharp edges is normally a good giveaway that you are looking at a forged piston.  Cast pistons most often have a bunch of hash marks and criss cross patterns on flat surfaces - which are used to help the filling characteristics of the mold they are made with.

Thanks Barry for your help.  Below is the answer that I received from Sealed Power (Federal Mogul). Your info confirms the info that they provided.

One other question that I have, and I did pass this on to them, regards the suffix on the TRW number that I have. The
L2291 number that I have does not have the F suffix but instead has an A.  Do you know what the difference, if any, is?

Another question that I had for them regards the depth of the eyebrows differing from one piston to another.  The parting line that runs across the center of the dome between the eyebrows is flush with the piston top on some of the pistons and recessed .010" to .020" on others which I assume also makes the eyebrows deeper as well.  It was probably a quality control issue from '78 but not sure.  Have you run across that?

Lastly do you know anything about the forged number 2143-97 that is inside of the dome of all my eight pistons regardless of the part number?  Apparently there is an actual L2143F part number that is also a 390 piston with a small dish.  Wondering if 2143-97 was a basic forging that was used for more than one piston?

Below is the answer from FM on the identity of the pistons.

Phil the L2291F is a TRW forged piston & the 2217P is a Sealed Power forged piston made by TRW, both pistons are the same, here is the specification that I found. The L2291F is still in production, but cannot mix old pistons with newer (2002 + up) designed pistons.

Compression Height_______________________1.776"
Dome Volume______________________________-10.0cc
Deck Height w/stock block________________0.014" (below deck)
Skirt to Cylinder Wall Clearence_________0.002"-0.003" (automotive application)


From Federal-Mogul Motorparts Garage Gurus Product Support Team

Please Call The Federal-Mogul Motorparts Garage Gurus Techline @ 800-325-8886.


Sender's Name: Phil Clowes

Sender's Subject: vintage pistons

Sender's Message: I have a set of pistons for a 390 Ford, with a standard 4.050 bore, that I am trying to find more info on. These pistons were purchased around 1978. At that time I had requested forged TRW pistons. Seven are stamped on the top 2217P STD and the eighth is stamped L2291A STD. All have a forged in place number inside that reads 2143-97. My research shows that both of these numbers ( 2217P and L2291A) were, at one time associated with TRW.
Are these pistons indeed a TRW item or Sealed Power item?
Are they forged ( they are smooth inside with no parting lines)?
Are the two parts numbers equal?
Do you have or know where I can find more specs on them such as compression height, dome volume (eyebrows), deck height, area above the top ring and the recommended skirt to bore clearance.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thank You
Phil

Barry thanks for you input.  By the way, great book that you wrote.  I picked it up a few weeks ago.  Because of it I'm sure I'll have at least 17 more questions for you.

Phil