Author Topic: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?  (Read 13714 times)

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427HISS

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IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« on: June 28, 2016, 08:29:16 PM »
A guy told me that there strongr than Scats ect. And is much wanted.
Is that true ?

blykins

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2016, 04:45:08 AM »
Scat has cast cranks and steel cranks.  If I recall, the $ cranks were not 4340 steel like today's steel cranks....plus they have 45 years of being raw dogged on them.

Scats cast stuff will see 650-700 hp so that may be a toss up compared to a factory $ crank, but IMO the Scat steel crank will be superior by far.
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HolmanMoodyStroppeGang

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 09:37:07 AM »
HI

The SCAT cranks are all steel, the basic crank is cast steel, cast off shore with SCATS people on the ground to watch the quality and process.  They are delivered here to Torrance, CA, where SCAT does all of the excellent machine work here.  It is cast off shore, largely to get around hyper strict EPA regs.  It is 'made', turned, drilled,tapped, ground, heat treated sometimes, and all the rest, in the USA

SCAT pays Federal income tax and supports our hard working men and women. Those who then sell SCAT cranks pay state and local taxes to support our communities, kids, cops and so on, seniors

Yes, the cast cranks do well up to the power level stated, but FORD spent a lot of time racing and testing the original cranks and this is a fact.  You question is a bit vague. maybe think cast FORD, iron, forged steel, FORD, new style cast steel, forged steel, then billet?

real fast FE's in competition often have a nice billet that will last many seasons and that is rebuildable, weldable, fully counterweighted and tough to over 1,000 HP. A billet can also be lightened which can show up on your time slip

A cast steel crank, as you push a FE  car in to the 10s and 9s, and wind her high, does tend to bend the cast crank by the end f the season.  Henry VELASCO will explain how many he tries to straighten, and why he has made true billet cranks for decades. To race. CROWER was an FORD Race team supplier and you won't find a better crank. Later, SONNY Bryant began making true billet cranks for FE's too.

So many fast FE owners just upgrade to start the program.  Remember, a used Bryant,Crower or other true billet, sells for a nice chunk of change if you part out the mill, or sell it assembled.  Not easy to find a nice, clean, barely used billet FE crank, or lightly used Carillo/Crower rods because they live great, are pretty bullet proof and highly desired.  Money in, money out. You park money in quality parts.  They retain value/

MOLDEX supplied billet cranks to many teams in and around Detroit and to FORD

A forged FORD crank has 3 basic designs

The original SOHC forging, has press in plugs in the rod throws

The factory manual, FOrd, Holman, us, and many racers, pulled the circlips then the plugs, after every race because we freshened the engines after every major race.  FORD suggested thet you lay the whole crank, with the plugs removed, in the big solvent tanks we had to soak.   Then you pre cleaned them

Then we magna-fluxed them.  What is cool is, you can look for cracks, outside, and inside the rod journals. We made, then Ed Pnk made, press in aluminum plugs for these cranks, to replace the steel cup plugs

Next, FORD made life easier and tapped these holes for a pipe plug, on a tapered thread.  You could remove them faster, and, the entire plug, given it's thickness, and depth, added strength in sheer, in torsion, in compression and was a better system

The SK forged crank was the best for us.  These were a special forging, from better dies, with better alloy, and the wider rods.    The SK cranks were used in NASCAR, DRAGS, BOATS,TOP FUEL, INJECTED FUEL


Blown gas, and just with carbs.   Deal there is full, heat soaked, induction hardening. They are darker looking.  If you tap on one, they ring a higher, clearer note.  They are beefy, heavier and bitchin

What was common was, you turned the rod journals down about 062, to run the 392 Dodge rod bearing. This is a wider rod, and bearing.  A leMans rod is 875 wide, +-      The 392 rod is 1.000 wide   +-   ...The FORD SK rods, are 1.000 +=   A wider rod is stronger at high RPM

Many many guys here used many many of these parts.  Pictures are somewhere out there

We have them all if you don't get the data from the cool guys here

Maybe some time I can provide some pictures,,,,busy busy

The SK crank yawned at 1500 HP on Nitro.   So, most of them got used up in the 60s and 70s

We made true billet cranks in house.   

SCAT has Billets, so how fast do you need to go

What is so cool is that SCAT and a few others, can hand you a nice, cast steel stroker for a great value.

What is also cool is, a lot of guys shelved the Forged FORD cranks at 20-20 under. Today, KING bearing and others give you more rebuilds with 20-30-40 under inserts

John V has a lot of nice old FE original parts for sale, so do the engine guys here, they have stock, and sources, many do.

A decent FORD forged steel crank fetched about 1.000 to a retail customer

If you make good friends, and find a collector willing to kind of help your build....a 427 crank, well

I got one recently for 100, but, I trade them back tuning and dial in favors, discounts, etc

When we selected a CROWER Billet, and they a jewels, we selected Carillo rods to match

Carillo rods are top shelf,,,,Crower, Bryant, Carillo sell millions of bucks worth of world class made in America race parts to NASCAR and other teams every year.   

Hope this helps a little amigo

I think you are the NOS block fan, so maybe blend in True Ford pieces if old school is the goal

If not, it is cool that the offshore blocks, heads and cranks yield a  21st century FE with many state of the art design features.  If you like the modernized path, you are lucky to have many choices

Again, if you do a period appropriate COBRA? remember, when you pop the hood, you see painted iron heads on a FORD iron block, the old style intake, covers, distributor, and old style Holley, none of the new billet carbs, old covers, and old pan, etc...

The new parts have a great Horsepower/dollar ratio

What makes me smile is true, a racer who wanted a true billet crank bad enough, and who was a decent machinist, and who was around a place like Detroit, or Cal in the 60s, and many other places,well,,,more than one broke racer, could invest hundreds of hours to patiently hand crank out their own billet crank.  It could be a long road, but with a rotary table, and a dead center, a large lathe, a big horizontal and vertical mill, some fixtures you make from a FORD steel sample, and so on, more than a few good engine prototype machinists we knew, and our place, made 4340 cranks that were a labor of love.   Kind of cool to take a big heavy piece of SAE grade high tensile steel, and make a drum of chips, to yield a 5o some odd pound crank...

Last thing we had was blanks,  FORD sent us raw forgings to finish in many strokes.  The snout and mains were turned in Detroit, and we could set the stroke, journal size and so on

The Rat Rod is a great size for a crank with out hollow crank pins.  The FORD crank had the lighter, hollow rod throws for a reason.

Gotta go amigo....now you have all you need to have a blast and go plenty fast. Source your parts from the cool guys here. 

And on your block, remember, we selected the best finished ones, because many need a few dimensions corrected due to production variations.   We squared many, sized the main saddles, and so on.  Many were very close to perfect, some need a massage.  Check yours with a skilled FE specialist who has the special tools and knowledge if you sweat the details

Good luck

Maybe email your engine guys here so they can let their hair down and help you

But if you use a talented guys mind, talent and time, do business with him to say thanks

Many here feed their kids with their skills, so I send them as many leads as I can, many do

It hurts the FE specialists to take their knowledge, over time, then go around them to get some special at a huge online Speed Parts vendor...

Finally, we all get WD or better deals from the manufacturers.  Buying from a FE specialist can be a win win for you, and him/her and their family.   

Getting a bitchin build sheet from a pro is worth compensating him for it to some extent, well, to us.   





« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 10:01:41 AM by HolmanMoodyStroppeGang »

Qikbbstang

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 01:37:22 PM »
A decade or two back when Hot Rod Magazine did one of their shocking facts on Top/Fuel motors they mentioned grinding the cams 0,5,10,15 degrees different at the journals so that the cam would match up under full power to the wound up/twisted crank under full load... Back then they were only making 5,000HP.

Chrisss31

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 02:34:45 PM »
xxx
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 12:59:48 PM by Chrisss31 »

427HISS

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 03:52:16 PM »
I agree !   :)

Posi67

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 05:06:30 PM »
Apparently, someone didn't get the memo  :o

westcoastgalaxie

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2016, 07:07:29 PM »
Uh oh here we go again. Funny how history repeats itself.

Chrisss31

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2016, 06:26:41 PM »
xxx
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 12:59:58 PM by Chrisss31 »

MeanGene

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2016, 08:25:50 PM »
I have a big orange bridge I'll sell you, while you're voting for Hillary  :o

Chrisss31

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2016, 09:03:59 PM »
xxx
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 01:00:21 PM by Chrisss31 »

Posi67

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2016, 09:33:44 PM »
What??  This dude is cool!  If I'm wrong about that, maybe I don't want to be right.

Then I think you don't want to be right...  I sent you a personal message that you may or may have not seen. As much as I'd like to comment more here, this Forum isn't the place and I respect the owners desire to keep it civil. 

427HISS

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2016, 09:46:02 PM »
 :)

jayb

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2016, 11:00:51 PM »
As much as I'd like to comment more here, this Forum isn't the place and I respect the owners desire to keep it civil.

Thank-you!  ;D
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cjshaker

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Re: IS THE $ CRANK STRONGER THAN TODAYS ?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2016, 09:29:09 AM »
 :-X
Doug Smith


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